New Emirates order....

[Flopgut]

Nope...most governments understand that open (or more open) skies in the long run is good for the consumer & jobs.

fv

I wish the "long run" had been considered back in 1944...

 

[fareview]

Easy there buddy, you're not quite that revolutionary. This all just boils down to air transportation A to B and skilled labor. My neighbors in Houston, TX have spent decades in the oil patch, and not one of them says Emirates will sustain this momentum. Easy come, easy go.

I actually agree with you nothing is set in stone and this could got chits up at which point I will take my 777 experience and go somewhere else. I doubt it though.

How long EK will last is a different debate but what those who do not live here don't understand - is the vast population bases we serve - that are completely under served. Pak, India, Bangla & SL is a market of 2bn+. The Indian carriers are not able to handle that growth (or much else).

What ticks 'us over here' off is the foundation that GL et al use to attack - and that is that it's bad for American jobs. Which is completely untrue. It may be bad for a DAL pilot because of what we have done on MXP-JFK (unreal in just one month with three competitors - well done EK) but just like RJs & LCCs - it's good for overall jobs but bad for one specific co.

It's business - and we are good at it as are others - but this whole 'morally outraged' charade is funny. DAL code shares with Saudia (Kerry just said they were a "very, very, important ally") & AA has gone all in with QR.

As to your Houston oil buddies...we know all about them ...can't get on in the front ..ever... Jam packed with Oilmen going to Erbil, Basrah, Baghdad, NBO, EBB etc

Now how are DAL & UA going to get their oilmen there....

...AA have a plan.

fv

 

[Flopgut]

We'll look, the Gulf airlines are indeed bad for US jobs. You're certainly buying a lot of US built airplanes, but the way you're buying them is not sustainable. When that's the financial reality things change on a whim, and that will hurt US aircraft builders even worse. It's all fun and games now because Uncle Sam doesn't want to let his airlines off the ropes. But if that changes and this starts to get to be work, the easy money will quit pouring into Emirates. I've seen enough pilots lose work, so I'm not wishing that on you even in the least bit. But what pisses us off is how these markets need to be uber free now that we've had the crap beat out of us. It's ridiculous. The US navy is bigger than the next 7 naval fleets in the world combined. As you pointed out, yes LCCs started here and they're successful. Fractionals and big air freight are led in the world by US companies. Come on, do you really think US legacies can't step up their game? Or that we won't? We have to get our government to see that a National Air Transportation policy is needed ASAP, and what that should involve is some serious restrictions on Gulf carriers access to our destinations. At least as much as was afforded the rest of the world when this all started, ought to be granted us.

 

[fareview]

Flop

Nothing makes me happier than seeing the US economy and US airlines prosper - and I mean that. But I know the hand that feeds me deserves credit.

With DAL serving multiple Asian airports out of Tokyo - you want a double standard.

Richie Anderson will have all the ears in DC he wants if he pulls out of Tokyo to defend fifth freedom principles that he wants to impose on another carrier in MXP.

Until then - it's completely hypocritical.

If you can do it - then we can do it - simple as that

If he is so concerned about American jobs then he wouldn't have ordered his latest wide bodies from the French. Our next order is going to the good 'ole USA - and that makes me feel good.

fv

 

[Flopgut]

Flop

With DAL serving multiple Asian airports out of Tokyo - you want a double standard.

fv

I'm not sure you understand why/how RA/DAL has those. There's a lot of history there that is specifically between Japan and the US. Is everything of old suppose to be scrapped, moved and torn down to enable Emirates to grow? Do we move borders, remove sovereignty, reshape the globe and past world events because you guys have momentum? If we do that, what happens when US airlines get it together and we have momentum? Cause we've been down that road and for some reason we never get as much as we seem to have to give...

 

[fareview]

Again you are missing the point. The issue is about US jobs...not necessarily US "AIRLINE" jobs. Try telling the Boeing machinists to stop EK growing.

And BTW don't UA do an intra Gulf hop (KWI-BAH?)

DALs concern for US jobs dilutes credibility when they order French airplanes.

It ain't just about you guys ...

On on the subject of DAL mgt credibility, I also think its ironic that GL boasts about how much money DAL made in the quarter - $1.3bn. Let me tell you that is an enormous number.

So the poor guys who were on here last year saying to GL and Co. "Guys don't take the carrot that the co. is offering to get a quick deal signed" only to be met by protest.

Guess what - the numbers were so- so until the pilot deal was signed...and now ...through the roof. They knew this and they played you beautifully.

Which is fine - that's their job, but let's not be naive about mgt's motives - for all of us.

As to sovereignty...eh what?

fv

 

[Flopgut]

As to sovereignty...eh what?

fv

Yeah, uh, kind of a stretch, I know. I'm just wondering what line you don't think needs to be crossed in order to give EK unfettered access to the world? The US Japanese relationship grew out of a war. Is it correct that your airline interject itself into that equation? Or use it as an example of how you think EK should be allowed to do business? I don't lack for respect or appreciation for you personally or most of the pilots over there. But those guys you play fartcatcher to? Another story.

 

[fareview]

To each their own.

"Those guys" are about to dump a massive amount of money into the US economy...again.

fv

 

[Flopgut]

I've got to go fly. Let's call it a day. Have a good weekend.

 

[General Lee]

Again you are missing the point. The issue is about US jobs...not necessarily US "AIRLINE" jobs. Try telling the Boeing machinists to stop EK growing.

And BTW don't UA do an intra Gulf hop (KWI-BAH?)

DALs concern for US jobs dilutes credibility when they order French airplanes.

It ain't just about you guys ...

On on the subject of DAL mgt credibility, I also think its ironic that GL boasts about how much money DAL made in the quarter - $1.3bn. Let me tell you that is an enormous number.

So the poor guys who were on here last year saying to GL and Co. "Guys don't take the carrot that the co. is offering to get a quick deal signed" only to be met by protest.

Guess what - the numbers were so- so until the pilot deal was signed...and now ...through the roof. They knew this and they played you beautifully.

Which is fine - that's their job, but let's not be naive about mgt's motives - for all of us.

As to sovereignty...eh what?

fv

The DL airbus orders will have the majority built in the new Alabama plant. New US jobs there. The intra Gulf flights on United are "tag on flights." They also do the same in Australia with a 744, to SYD with a tag on to MEL. Australia doesn't allow Australian passengers to go between the two, and Qantas also does the same between LAX and JFK. They pick up people in JFK and take them to LAX, where they go onto Brisbane, Melbourne, or Sydney, on Qantas.

As far as the contract goes, you are correct, the pilots did sign a bit early. One of the things reduced was the percentage for profit sharing. But, the profit "pie" given to all DL employees is actually a lot larger. Last year the average payback was about 4.5% of your W2 in the form of a profit sharing check. This next one, since the amount being put in to the "pool" is larger overall, rumors are putting the next check at 6-7%. The contract also gave a 20% pay increase over 3 years, which is FANTASTIC. I'll take a 20% raise every 3 years. With the unbelievable numbers as of late, what do you think will be the next raise? It can only get better. Throw in pilot shortages, new fatigue rules (no India allnight turns here), and the other two biggies also competing for pilots, and things are looking good.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[fareview]

Thanks for biting on the Airbus point - thought it would take longer.

A foreign company through free market principles, Airbus, investing in American jobs is great for the US because DAL are involved.

That's exactly what EK is doing with Boeing BUT because DAL are NOT involved - it's bad for American jobs.

Hmmm

fv

 

[fareview]

I've got to go fly. Let's call it a day. Have a good weekend.

Cheers

fv

 

[General Lee]

Thanks for biting on the Airbus point - thought it would take longer.

A foreign company through free market principles, Airbus, investing in American jobs is great for the US because DAL are involved.

That's exactly what EK is doing with Boeing BUT because DAL are NOT involved - it's bad for American jobs.

Hmmm

fv

Boeing wants your order, but doesn't need it. Your order helps, but there are more American Airline jobs than Boeing jobs. Regardless, your airline ordering planes doesn't mean you should or will get preferential treatment getting airport gates or slots. You can go use those new 777Xs to Dar Es Salam, that's fine with everyone. Most Governments don't want you to compete with local airlines, it hurts the locals, and most of the locals vote for the Leaders. So, the State of Washington (people at Boeing Field, Renton, and Paine Field especially) really like you. The rest, not so much. Same with most industrialized nations, like China and Japan. They won't just let you in to do what you want. Italy is a special case, they are falling apart and want someone to take over Alitalia within the EU, and AF/KL are balking.

So, thanks for walking right into that point. I hope you understand it now. So, what was your profit sharing % last year?


Bye Bye--- General Lee

 

[fareview]

So what was your LHS time & pay last year?



fv

 

[General Lee]

So what was your LHS time & pay last year?



fv

I probably beat yours with my RHS. Over $180K including profit sharing, not including the $20K that the company put in my DC fund. Being senior in category allows me to get double pay trips on my days off if I want them. Plus, I don't have to live in the ME. Priceless. How did you do, including profit sharing, while living in the ME?


P.S.-----you couldn't pay me enough to live in the ME. Even paid for apartment in a big building in DXB isn't worth it. LHS seems worth it to you, even having to live away from the US. Not me. I enjoy living at HOME. Which would you take? A LHS on an Air China 777 in PEK, or a RHS on an AA 319 in DFW? Exactly.....btw, TP's quote is at the bottom for you to look at again, and again, and again....



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[fareview]

And once again you go juvenile.

Nope, you didn't beat me.. But I won't go down that road here. We are after all professional pilots.

You see I, nor my fellow EK'ers are on here telling you how my choice was right and yours was wrong but you have an obsession with putting your lot in life onto a cookey cutter sentence of perfection. You continue to thread drift to telling all and sundry you have the best life and others don't.

But here's the thing...I have no idea about your life - so I don't judge it. But you know about mine - and you continually judge it.

You go through these stages of nuttiness that just makes you look like a teenager.

I mean one minute we are debating about US jobs and factories in Alabama (which is great) and next thing its the old 'Lubbock overnight' etc schtick.

Dude - I'm happy if other pilots are happy, yourself included.

Just pay the rest of us the same courtesy.

fv

 

[8sugarsugar]

poor Gen Lee is not happy because he will never be a wide body capt, maybe he even failed his narrow body upgrade...a serious inferiority complex, as in First Officer Lee's case, doesn't come naturally without any previous negative experience.

 

[8sugarsugar]

i'm also starting to wonder if Sniper and G Lee are the same person?

 

[General Lee]

And once again you go juvenile.

Nope, you didn't beat me.. But I won't go down that road here. We are after all professional pilots.

You see I, nor my fellow EK'ers are on here telling you how my choice was right and yours was wrong but you have an obsession with putting your lot in life onto a cookey cutter sentence of perfection. You continue to thread drift to telling all and sundry you have the best life and others don't.

But here's the thing...I have no idea about your life - so I don't judge it. But you know about mine - and you continually judge it.

You go through these stages of nuttiness that just makes you look like a teenager.

I mean one minute we are debating about US jobs and factories in Alabama (which is great) and next thing its the old 'Lubbock overnight' etc schtick.

Dude - I'm happy if other pilots are happy, yourself included.

Just pay the rest of us the same courtesy.

fv

That's fine. I already read plenty of info about the Gulf Carriers on PPRUNE. I hope you like EK, but even though some get LHS in a widebody sooner, some like TP decide to bail out. That is very telling. But, if you enjoy it, fantastic. BTW, bragging about World domination can make people defensive. Have a great one.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Varmint]

i'm also starting to wonder if Sniper and G Lee are the same person?

I have wondered the same thing myself. Sniper is similar, but more uneducated and crass than Up Your Six, his old second name.