NetJets

[captain dad]

B19

If you don't agree with that, fine. But I don't have to agree with somebody that spits out union rhetoric with complete disregard for the other employees and the career choices they made.


I am sorry that you made a bad career choice. There are more unions out there. We happen to be a pilot union. Therefore, our union takes care of pilots.


I see a lot of anger and control issues in what you are saying. If it helps you to vent, go for it. Let it all out. Tell us about your mother and how you were abused, if it helps.


But I think it's a bit of a stretch trying to make a connection between our union and history's biggest mass murderer based on FOOTWARE! I find your thoughtless comments morally offensive and disgusting. Please stop. If not for my sake for the public that may be reading this.

I could be wrong but I think you have issues. You might want to get that looked at. Seriously!

 

[*#$% Headwinds]

Quote:
Originally Posted by B19 Flyer
No, it's a lot more complicated than that.

I've worked and managed in union and non-union environments. In union environments, there is an us against them, win-lose atmosphere that doesn't exist in non-union shops.

That is because in a non-Union shop you do what you are told or else. The rules change and you have no recourse. Non-Union shops stink of favoritism, and ass kissing.
Of course you prefer non-Union shops, you are management (tool).

Exactly. In a non-union shop, it is still very much "us vs. them". "They" just happen to have all the power. It is always a win/lose atmosphere and non organized employees always lose.

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

I find it disheartening that so many are consumed by negativity, even while working for the best company in the industry IMO. I know there will always be naysayers, and typically they are the ones raising the most ruckus, but I was hoping not to encounter too much of this at my new job.

I sincerely hope that the majority of NJ pilots have the right attitude and mirror what I see coming from Captain Dad.

No, things are never going to be perfect or rosy red at any company, but they can be damned close to it.

Ultra Grump, I understand your skepticism to an extent, but it is bordering on cynicism. No, not everything save the EFB will make your life directly better (i despise Jepp revisions too, they are the spawn of the devil) but like CD and NJW are saying these other less tangible things will definitely secure your (our) futures and give us more pride in the company we work for. They will also open up more doors and opportunities for all which in my opinion is ALWAYS a good thing.

The union/non union debate is as old as time. Personally, from a pilot's perspective, I am tired of being in the non-union shop situation that you describe. You are right, it's do what you're told or else. You have to fight for everything all the time. It is too hard on a family, and too hard on the individual who has laid out so much personal sacrifice and financial risk. Only pilots that have spent the money and time and made the sacrifice (and of course their spouses and families) will understand what I am talking about.

For instance, I have gone to many job interviews where I have been told I will have to start my own LLC and will be given extra money for my "own" medical benefits because A: the liability is "too high" for the company and B: "if we pay for pilots medical insurance every employee's premiums at the company will go up and it would be cost prohibitive". I told that guy where he could stick his LLC and left. I've also worked for companies that hire you under a training contract and the guise of security down both ways of the street only to violate the contract in terms of pay, time off, upgrades, etc. and then expect you to work the remainder of the time owed, OR ELSE. It is the fault of the kind of management thinking at these types of organizations that has caused pilots to HAVE to unionize to survive and provide for their families. No other labor group (not to mention we are PROFESSIONALS, not LABORERS) gets treated as badly, period. People like B19 WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND because they have not been through it. He is not worth listening to or even engaging with, it's worthless.

Personally I am thanking my lucky stars for NetJets and what it is going to provide for my family. I am paying right now 403 bucks a months for health insurance of my own for my wife and 3 year old. On April 7th, I will immediately recover 5k for the year in those expenses. Not to mention the rest of the great things that will be provided. Finally, I am reaping some return on my investment.

You guys that have negative attitudes are suffering from the same story I have seen repeated over and over again. Boy (or girl) gets job, boy is happy, boy works job for a long time, boy forgets why he was happy, boy starts complaining, boy decides company sucks and can't see the good in anything anymore.

Let's all try to be positive. I can tell you that from the interview process it is obvious that there is a huge push in a new direction. They are looking for people with positive attitudes and bright outlooks that will contribute to the overall end goal which is being and maintaining their reputation of being the best of the best.

I sure hope that is the majority outlook at NJA and I don't spend half my time on the road listening to the discontented rants of my Captains! We'll see I guess.

 

[Bruce Dickenson]

Can this thread end now please?

Thanks

 

[CA1900]

I sure hope that is the majority outlook at NJA and I don't spend half my time on the road listening to the discontented rants of my Captains!

Every company has their 5% of negative a-holes; this place is no different! In my year and a half here, I've only run into a few; they're pretty few and far between.

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

Every company has their 5% of negative a-holes; this place is no different! In my year and a half here, I've only run into a few; they're pretty few and far between.

Good.

 

[captain dad]

Welcome FlyAuburn. I think for the most part you will be very happy. Most don't complain here. Unfortunately, there are a few that just don't get it or can't let go of the past.

You'll love it.

 

[acaTerry]

Can this thread end now please?

Thanks

GEEZ!! You call yourself an Iron Maiden fan and can't spell DickInson?

 

[Ultra Grump]

Dave and Jim?
Dave MacGee and Jim Gorman (they kind of run the company)

I'm sorry, I'm not on a first-name basis with them - apparently you are (A-team? ). We also have a guy running the company named Jim Christiansen, and numerous other Daves and Jims in CMH. Get my point?

Has it? How, exactly?

Virtual Seniority List (it's on the crew ops site) and language was built into the contract.

Only if certain terms are met. Again, depends on the integration (whether there actually is one, among other issues).

Again, that would depend on the terms of integration.

Pilots above and below you will go to the Gulfstreams making you more senior in your fleet. In fact that is already happening to some extent. Not to mention the job security of adding several hundred more pilots and all their A/C to our seniority and inventory lists. It is like adding equity to our value.

No real effect that I can discern, yet. And pilots below you leaving a fleet do nothing but make you more junior in the fleet.

Other fracs already do. I'm pretty sure T-Bone mentioned XO Jet is doing progressives, for one.

As I stated, I was unsure about progressive training. I thought only 121 carriers could do it. If they do it, then I am very happy for XO Jet. I heard they are hiring. Good luck on your interview.

Right. Since we don't do progressive checkrides and XOJet does, I should go there, rather than...hmmm...let's see...getting progressive checkrides here? That is just an asinine statement, and does nothing for your credibility.

It is your right to not agree with things that are coming in the future. Personally, I look forward to all of them and that gets me hyped. I see them all as a benefit. Maybe not to me directly, but indirectly they will improve the overall health of the company which makes my life less stressful and easier.

I never said I didn't agree with any of them, I said they are not as fantastic as you made them out to be in your "I know a secret and you don't," six-year-old-style build-up in this thread. I will get excited when I see these changes actually being implemented. Until then, they are simply hoped-for changes. You know what they say, hope in one hand and crap in the other, and see which one fills up first.

BTW, where can I find these "announcements" of all these changes? The only thing I've heard for sure is that we're staying in CMH and that Gulfstream is building a "successor" aircraft.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Ultra Grump, I understand your skepticism to an extent, but it is bordering on cynicism.

Nobody ever accused me of being anything other than a cynic. Well, okay, maybe a few other choice words that would be censored here...

No, not everything save the EFB will make your life directly better (i despise Jepp revisions too, they are the spawn of the devil) but like CD and NJW are saying these other less tangible things will definitely secure your (our) futures and give us more pride in the company we work for. They will also open up more doors and opportunities for all which in my opinion is ALWAYS a good thing.

Yep. I'll believe it when I see it, and then I'll get excited about it.

If everyone were perfectly content at a company, there would be no need for a union, and nothing would ever improve. The only way improvements get made is when someone is dissatisfied with the status quo. You're welcome.

 

[captain dad]

UG, you seem to have all the answers. So why are you asking questions? I mean, what is your point? Are you waiting to squash me so you can feel like a big boy? If you are pissed at me for being optimistic then just say it. If you want to go around telling the world how nothing is good enough, I think you are wasting your time and nobody really wants to listen. The way you make it sound, nothing is going to be good enough. If that's the case, quit being a whiny punk, suck it up, and be a man.

I am sorry if you are not excited about being here. I am and I like to look forward to stuff that is coming. I actually pity people that loose sight of why they do what they do. I mean, you do realize that you are already complaining about stuff that hasn't even happened yet, right?

I suggest if you want verification on this stuff you give one of the numerous Jims or Daves, you mentioned and ask them.

If you aren't happy here, do yourself a favor and go somewhere else. I think you might want to drop the negative attitude if you want to pass the interview.

I'll give you the last word so you can feel superior.

The "hope in one hand..." line is a real peach. I bet you are great at dinner parties.

Lighten up and be happy for once. Life is too short.

 

[jackpilot]

Everyone, go have a few beers...get outside and walk away from your computer. Don't check the forums for the next 3 weeks.

I wonder if some of you could do that?

 

[mavrck]

just popped my resume/app in the mail today. Hmmm, not sure but can you tell me what is just sooo bad at NJ? I am an outsider of course and looking at the greener grass in the neighbors yard.

 

[CA1900]

just popped my resume/app in the mail today. Hmmm, not sure but can you tell me what is just sooo bad at NJ? I am an outsider of course and looking at the greener grass in the neighbors yard.

Your schedule's unpredictable, and sometimes the company does things that defy all logic and reason.

That's pretty much it.

 

[Q Service]

just popped my resume/app in the mail today. Hmmm, not sure but can you tell me what is just sooo bad at NJ? I am an outsider of course and looking at the greener grass in the neighbors yard.

Nothing is "so" bad here.

No company is perfect, but this one is great, and getting better.

I have worked on both sides of the fence for Netjets; both as a management pilot, and a line pilot.

Our success as a company is the result of hard work by all sides. Union and non-union, pilots and non-pilots. (Happy B19?)

Our success as a "unionized pilot group" is the result of hard working dedicated individuals who were not willing to buy the BS levied upon them by Bill Boisture and the MEC of Local 284.

To paraphrase Dave McGhee right after the 2005 CBA, "Well congratulations gentlemen, you got what you wanted, now I have no idea how the company is going to afford this, I hope it doesn't bankrupt us."

Yeah, record profits since. (What 500 something million in 2007!) Including an additional raise not mandated by our CBA.

What you are seeing on this board / thread is a few people bickering about the merits of union vs non-union shops, pilots vs. non-pilots. This is a pointless argument. Quoting Bill Olsen, "it is what its is" at Netjets.

I'll let the companies black ink attest to the fact that there are talented hard working people working at Netjets toward a common goal, with rare exception.

Respectfully
-Q

 

[netjetwife]

I find it disheartening that so many are consumed by negativity, even while working for the best company in the industry IMO. ...
I sincerely hope that the majority of NJ pilots have the right attitude and mirror what I see coming from Captain Dad. In my interaction with NJ pilots, most are upbeat and appreciative for how things are going at NJA. They are thankful for the Union leadership, who I assure you, are positive, visionary leaders.

Ultra Grump, I understand your skepticism to an extent, but it is bordering on cynicism. He tries hard to live up to his name, doesn't he? ... these other less tangible things ... will also open up more doors and opportunities for all which in my opinion is ALWAYS a good thing. Well said, 'Auburn!

The union/non union debate is as old as time. Personally, from a pilot's perspective, I am tired of being in the non-union shop situation that you describe. You are right, it's do what you're told or else. You have to fight for everything all the time. It is too hard on a family, and too hard on the individual who has laid out so much personal sacrifice and financial risk. Only pilots that have spent the money and time and made the sacrifice (and of course their spouses and families) will understand what I am talking about. I do, and I think you will be a good match for the NJ Pilots' Union as well as the Company. Welcome! (I'll say it again officially when you join the NJ board).

For instance, I... It is the fault of the kind of management thinking at these types of organizations that has caused pilots to HAVE to unionize to survive and provide for their families. No other labor group (not to mention we are PROFESSIONALS, not LABORERS) gets treated as badly, period. People like B19 WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND because they have not been through it. He is not worth listening to or even engaging with, it's worthless. Again, very well put! You will find that your experiences are shared by many of the NJA pilots. It's one of the reasons for their strong unity.

Personally I am thanking my lucky stars for NetJets and what it is going to provide for my family. I am paying right now 403 bucks a months for health insurance of my own for my wife and 3 year old. On April 7th, I will immediately recover 5k for the year in those expenses. Not to mention the rest of the great things that will be provided. Finally, I am reaping some return on my investment. Health care has long been considered a staple benefit for professionals so the lack of it (too often seen for pilots) shows disrespect. If other frac pilots unionize I think the health care issue may be one of the deciding factors. .....

Let's all try to be positive. I can tell you that from the interview process it is obvious that there is a huge push in a new direction. Based on my husband's joint committee work, I agree. They are looking for people with positive attitudes and bright outlooks that will contribute to the overall end goal which is being and maintaining their reputation of being the best of the best. Yes, the joint Company-Union goal is to provide and gain a reputation for customer service synonymous with the Ritz hotel experience .

I sure hope that is the majority outlook at NJA ....

I think that it is. Leaders in management and among the pilots recognize that ambitious goals backed by a motivated, positive attitude aren't just more pleasant; they're more productive, in the long run, too. NJA is going for the green from a fresh outlook to interest in the environment. NJA pilots are going for the green, too... Four leaf clovers for everyone!

 

[netjetwife]

just popped my resume/app in the mail today. Hmmm, not sure but can you tell me what is just sooo bad at NJ? I am an outsider of course and looking at the greener grass in the neighbors yard.

Good Luck! The NJA lawn is one I think you'll enjoy. The pilots are getting ready for some yard work (elections) so look for that if you get the job.

NJA pilots, if the weevils are leeching the green from your grass give 'em the boot....

 

[gunfyter]

we already knew NJ was expanding and wanting to build acampus. Ok thats good. We just learned details but to me details are not important. I don't feel like anything has really changed for me.

Was rooting for RDU.

 

[netjetwife]

....Our success as a company is the result of hard work by all sides. Union and non-union, pilots and non-pilots. (Happy B19?)
Well said, Q! And way to handle the fudspinner.

Our success as a "unionized pilot group" is the result of hard working dedicated individuals who were not willing to buy the BS levied upon them by Bill Boisture and the MEC of Local 284. Absolutely! It was pilots helping their fellow pilots and all (family members too) standing up together for a fair deal. That is what the NJ Pilots' Union is and I'm proud to be associated with them.

To paraphrase Dave McGhee right after the 2005 CBA, "Well congratulations gentlemen, you got what you wanted, now I have no idea how the company is going to afford this, I hope it doesn't bankrupt us." DM would have been new to NJA then; sounds like he was drinking the Boisture brew... Yeah, record profits since. (What 500 something million in 2007!) Including an additional raise not mandated by our CBA. Following an excellent year in 2006, as well. Interest Based Bargaining (IBB) which brought the new pay scale is just another term for team work.

... I'll let the companies black ink attest to the fact that there are talented hard working people working at Netjets toward a common goal, with rare exception. Good point! It's one others of us have made as well and it proves that Union and non-union, pilots and non-pilots can work well together, in spite of what the few anti-union posters would like to have readers believe.

Respectfully
-Q

Thanks for sharing your perspective as one who has worked on both sides of the fence for NJA. My husband does a lot of joint committee work and his opinion is much like yours. Regards, NJW

 

[netjetwife]

PS Mavrck

CA1900 was just joking about the schedule being unpredictable. That doesn't apply to the 7&7 and even the 18 day is posted by the 15th of the month prior. If CA meant that the daily schedule of the job is often unpredictable, that's correct. It goes with territory, but many (like my husband) enjoy the variety. Good luck with the hiring process! NJW