NetJets

[flyjetspeed]

There isn't any word twisting.

Post after post with you is the same thing. Never, unless I point it out, do you ever show any respect for the employees that chose other career paths.

You clearly have stated on these boards that other employees could have chosen to "invest" in their careers to be pilots but didn't, thus they are not entitled to an appropriate share of the payroll bucket.

You consistantly are insulting and disrespectful by ignoring the fact that the very airplane your husband flies when he is not busy volunteering for pay doing union business is scheduled, repaired, maintained, dispatched and completely supported by non-pilots that are equally as passionate about what they do as your husband is at what he does.

Without these people, not a single airplane would fly. Of course that wouldn't prevent a paycheck from coming into your home, as your husband gets paid to volunteer doing union chores.

Remember that Hitler wore black boots, and he thought he was doing the right thing too.

Congradulations B19, you just made it onto my ignore list! Sen Loy MF

 

[acaTerry]

ARRRGH me hearties! Let's Keel Haul him!!!
B19 you, ah forget it, what's the point? Like talking to the rear end of a horse. Wait, that IS B19.

 

[netjetwife]

You've hit a new low B19. That comment was completely uncalled for. You owe NJW an apology.

Thanks, Oz. That's the second time he has said that. Disgusting beyond belief. Suffice it to say, that his true colors are showing with every handful of FUD he flings. Experts in detection of deception (I had a class from one of the best, Stan B Walters) report that fully 90% or greater of deception is found in denial. B19 denies reality and he denies that he twists words and spouts FUD in the very posts where both are obvious to all who read his self-serving, agenda driven, rants. My history of fair and honest posting here proves I'm respectful to all and have always encouraged every worker to stand up for their rights. In sharp contrast, the word-twisting fudflinger likens me to Hitler.... That desperate deed speaks volumes. The guilty typically try to discredit their accusers as they run from the truth. Those boots have hit a nerve fellas...

There's a poisonous word-twister slithering among the posts. Pull on your boots and arm yourself with the truth!!

 

[netjetwife]

I don't know about you guys, but his fixation with NJW is kind of scary. We have inborn warning systems (instincts) that tell us when a situation is abnormal. Yours are clearly working. It seems he can't post anything without referring to her. And I can't post anything without him smearing his slime all over my words. Almost like he is stalking. Good call. It does feel that way, and his mention of Hitler supports your finding. One has to ask why he is thinking of death, destruction, etc and posting about me. Sick.

Wouldn't surprise me if he has pictures of her boots spread throughout his lair. Or maybe he's sitting there wearing some himself. It's kind of like he has to suppress his dirty little thoughts about her with this drummed up anger and self-righteousness. Very perceptive Sky! Experts teach us that projection is common among the guilty and their statements often give them away. (I had a class in statement analysis, too.) Note that B19 claims that I'm "unhealthy". I leave it to the readers to decide what reality is, and who is the one with the unhealthy fixation.

Gives me the willies thinking about what he's doing while he's sitting there pounding away on the keyboard. Make it stop...

The closer you get to a contract and the more unity you display, the uglier and louder your enemies become. It's a classic case of union-busting, fud-spreading behavior that has crossed the line. The Options pilots' are justified in their pursuit of a contract; they hold the moral high ground and NO amount of FUD can change that. The NJ pilots' Union has an excellent record and they are respected by NJA management. NO amount of word-twisting can change that fact. We're seeing desperation which is good news, actually. It reminds me of the NJA contract dispute. When the FUD got deep, I posted back then that it's always darkest before the dawn. Hang in there, guys, you're on the right track!
NJW

 

[netjetwife]

ARRRGH me hearties! Let's Keel Haul him!!! ....

Aye, aye, Captain! Hear! Hear!

Despicable posts demand harsh discipline.

Yes sir! You hold him and we'll give him the black boot!

 

[captain dad]

You know, I used to slam people and talk some serious smack. You can check and it wasn't too long ago.

I was angry, hurtful, and jealous. Since I have come to NJA and seen what a real company is all about, I have tried to leave all of that garbage behind. I don't always succeed, but I do try.

While you are thinking about that, just think about all the good stuff that is happening. Nothing is instantaneous, few things in aviation are. Look back five years and then look at today. This company has gone crazy with only a slight slow down as of late. 451 pilots to be hired in 2008. With at least that many for the next few years to come. A net gain of over 50 aircraft in 2008. Over $2 Billion (yes with a B) in aircraft orders. Domination of the industry and a nut hold on its future. How many people can say that about their job? Yes, as pilots we had a lot to do with that, but not all. Without the folks behind the scenes we wouldn't have much.

You wanna slam and complain fine, but at the end of the day what do you get for it?

Enjoy the weather on your pedistal, I'm up at FL450.

And by the way, IT ROCKS!!!imp:

B19, sorry for the tool comment. I couldn't resist. Please lay off the Hitler references, it is in bad taste.

 

[glasspilot]

what The Hell Does Fud Stand For?!?!!??!??!?!?!?!?

 

[Fozzy]

Are you serious?

 

[captain dad]

Fud

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Fud may refer to:

• FUD, Fear, uncertainty and doubt, a marketing or political strategy
• FUD, Female urination device
• FUD (food), a Mexican brand of cold cuts and hot dogs

Make sure you click on the links.
Which one do you think fits?:laugh:

 

[Sparse]

.

Santulli said that each penny of the incentive would find its way back into the community.

"I'll say all of the money we receive from the state and the city; we will put back into the local community and the State of Ohio," Santulli said.

.

What would you expect him to say? He just took 100 million from the people who were reading this.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Thanks, Oz. That's the second time he has said that. Disgusting beyond belief. Suffice it to say, that his true colors are showing with every handful of FUD he flings. Experts in detection of deception (I had a class from one of the best, Stan B Walters) report that fully 90% or greater of deception is found in denial. B19 denies reality and he denies that he twists words and spouts FUD in the very posts where both are obvious to all who read his self-serving, agenda driven, rants. My history of fair and honest posting here proves I'm respectful to all and have always encouraged every worker to stand up for their rights. In sharp contrast, the word-twisting fudflinger likens me to Hitler.... That desperate deed speaks volumes. The guilty typically try to discredit their accusers as they run from the truth. Those boots have hit a nerve fellas...

There's a poisonous word-twister slithering among the posts. Pull on your boots and arm yourself with the truth!!

All I did was mention that the greatest propaganda artist of all time also wore black boots.

What's wrong with that?

The lady doth protest too much methinks.

 

[Ultra Grump]

My husband recently attended a lecture on customer service with about 300 NJ employees...

...

...It's time to start fresh with a good attitude and appreciation for all the good things that have been happening.

The results are already out there. IBB was a huge turning point that was made possible by lots of meetings and joint committee work that individually weren't "earth-shattering" but taken together added up to a new way of doing business for NJA and the entire industry. Many, many lives have already been made easier because of that new attitude. You can keep "earth-shattering" events which are actually quite rare. I'll take old fashioned commitment and hard work any day. NJW

Digging in my heels to make sure that credit is given where it is due--throughout NetJets Inc.

The entire point of my post is that while those will be some nice improvements (if they come to pass), they do not exactly measure up to the hype Capt Dad started this thread with. You say it's not all about me - you're right, but Capt Dad told us it would make all our lives better and easier. I was pointing out how it wouldn't necessarily make MY life better or easier. I can't speak for you, so whose experience should I refer to when addressing this, other than my own?

 

[Ultra Grump]

Hey Grump.

All I can tell you is what I was told by Dave and Jim.

Dave and Jim?

The integration issue has been dealt with.

Has it? How, exactly?

I suggest you bring that up with the new union. I think that is going to be high on the list. If you don't want to fly a Gulfstream, I am sure there are plenty above and below you that will. That should improve your life a little.

Again, that would depend on the terms of integration.

I mentioned the "progressive" checkrides where you train to proficiency ...and I don't think a non 121 carrier can do the progressive type training.

Other fracs already do. I'm pretty sure T-Bone mentioned XO Jet is doing progressives, for one.

The EFB: Dave and Jim said they have decided on the supplier and have several versions to choose from. He used some names but I am unfamiliar with the products and can't remember them. He used specifics, has handled demos, with NJA software loaded, and talked about writing manuals for them, which would make me think they are close to ready. Just my gut feeling.

This is the one thing mentioned that truly and immediately would make my life at work better and easier.

Just promise to take your meds first.:laugh:

Aw, damn!

 

[fischman]

Fud

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Fud may refer to:

• FUD, Fear, uncertainty and doubt, a marketing or political strategy
• FUD, Female urination device
• FUD (food), a Mexican brand of cold cuts and hot dogs

Make sure you click on the links.
Which one do you think fits?:laugh:

If I chose #2, would it still be appropriate? GET IT!!!?!?!??!?!!

(I crack myself up. Scotch is AWESOME!)

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

All I have done is point out that her attitude is not healthy for the industry. It's all about winning and losing.

Or you could just be making a giant mountain out of a tiny mole hill. Get a life.

 

[netjetwife]

The entire point of my post is that while those will be some nice improvements (if they come to pass), they do not exactly measure up to the hype Capt Dad started this thread with. You say it's not all about me - you're right, but Capt Dad told us it would make all our lives better and easier. I was pointing out how it wouldn't necessarily make MY life better or easier. I can't speak for you, so whose experience should I refer to when addressing this, other than my own?

I was hoping to discuss the overall situation from the long-term view, Grumpy. Certainly, it's natural for you to look for personal benefits in the deal. I just thought you were overlooking the indirect ones: Pride in your work place; job security from the growth; and the shared excitement of new experiences at work. Look at it this way: The new house being built in your neighborhood might not be exactly to your taste, or directly affect your comfort level, but it is going to make your property worth more. NJW

 

[netjetwife]

Dave and Jim?....

I don't understand your question, UG.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Or you could just be making a giant mountain out of a tiny mole hill. Get a life.

No, it's a lot more complicated than that.

I've worked and managed in union and non-union environments. In union environments, there is an us against them, win-lose atmosphere that doesn't exist in non-union shops. This attitude is counterproductive to operations, safety, profitability and long term viability to the company. In union shops somehow it gets lost that it's all about moving airplanes and not about labor woes and what a work group will or won't do to move those airplanes safely. Moving airplanes, people and cargo become secondary.

Great examples of that is what is happening now are the Delta/Northwest and the USAir/America West mergers. The unions are holding up what would be a huge boon to both companies. The union involvement just gets in the way of business, and most of what causes it is the egos and win/lose attitude.

If unions didn't have a win/lose attitude toward business, I probably wouldn't be so anti-union.

1108 needs to negotiate a contract, and not "win" a contract for the pilots. I'm all about being fair, and once a union is brought onto the property all bets are off at that point.

NJW doesn't have that attitude. She has made the statement, then tried to back out of it when I point it out. She has an adversarial attitude about what she thinks a pilot is worth, not what the industry can maintain. I've seen too many union supporters go into management ranks and within months of seeing the other side quickly change their attitude.

When she posts, she is a bystander, not active in the industry. She doesn't have a first person view, but writes as though she is making the decisions.

Let me make something perfectly clear here. There needs to be fair negotiations from both sides, but the traditional methods used by unions is anything but fair. I've known a few unions over the years that have stepped up to the plate and acted in the best interest of the company and the pilot group. The old guard at Southwest was one of those groups. That was a ten year deal with profit sharing. The old guard there is now gone. It will be interesting to see what happens, and from everything I've heard from friends there the new guys want it all up front now.


I don't twist words.

If you state "WIN" then you want an adversarial attitude because for every winner, there must be a loser.

If you are "paid", you are not a volunteer, you are an employee.

In the context of her original statement it was clear she felt that all air carrier employees had the choice to invest in their careers and become pilots so they had the biggest paychecks. This was in response to my saying that when a CBA is signed, the money has to come from somewhere and it comes from the other employee groups and restrict them from being able to make a more balance payroll.

These are all statements she has made that I don't agree with.

Do you not believe that negotiations should be fair, all employees should be respected and compensated accordingly in their career choices and volunteers should never be paid.

The naysayers will say that the company could have provided that, but once a union is on the property, management needs to simply wait out the process, just like NJ did. They had enough money to weather the storm, does FLOPS? Remains to be seen. They asked for a union, they've got what they wanted, and with it a stagant company.

If you don't agree with that, fine. But I don't have to agree with somebody that spits out union rhetoric with complete disregard for the other employees and the career choices they made.

And, I will stand by my statement about the boots. He did exactly what a union does. He thought he had a better idea, he went in and took over using propaganda and rhetoric and in the end he failed like so many companies have. His boots were black too, and he used them to stomp out what he considered in the way of his attempt to dominate.

 

[Fozzy]

No, it's a lot more complicated than that.

I've worked and managed in union and non-union environments. In union environments, there is an us against them, win-lose atmosphere that doesn't exist in non-union shops.

That is because in a non-Union shop you do what you are told or else. The rules change and you have no recourse. Non-Union shops stink of favoritism, and ass kissing.
Of course you prefer non-Union shops, you are management (tool).

 

[captain dad]

Dave and Jim?
Dave MacGee and Jim Gorman (they kind of run the company)
Has it? How, exactly?
Virtual Seniority List (it's on the crew ops site) and language was built into the contract.
Again, that would depend on the terms of integration.
Pilots above and below you will go to the Gulfstreams making you more senior in your fleet. In fact that is already happening to some extent. Not to mention the job security of adding several hundred more pilots and all their A/C to our seniority and inventory lists. It is like adding equity to our value.
Other fracs already do. I'm pretty sure T-Bone mentioned XO Jet is doing progressives, for one.
As I stated, I was unsure about progressive training. I thought only 121 carriers could do it. If they do it, then I am very happy for XO Jet. I heard they are hiring. Good luck on your interview. However, the step program is far better than the way it is now and will make life easier and more importantly, SAFER.

It is your right to not agree with things that are coming in the future. Personally, I look forward to all of them and that gets me hyped. I see them all as a benefit. Maybe not to me directly, but indirectly they will improve the overall health of the company which makes my life less stressful and easier.