NetJets Working on CASS Approval?

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You represent that company. You and the company reflect on each other. Take a good look in that reflection and honestly tell me you like what you see? Are you proud of a dirty airplane? Or are you simply proud of the fact that you got your pax to their destination? Does it bother you that an average 10% of pax bags don't make it? As a paying passenger NOTHING makes me more upset than that. I'd rather be delayed or cancelled than lose my bags.

Getting back to the lav. If everyone would clean it just once a day, it wouldn't get so nasty. It REALLY isn't that big of a deal. Honestly, who's holier than thou???

It has been said that if you do these extra things for you company, you don't get to see anything for it. But you do! If management would change the corporate culture so everyone tried (anything!) JUST A LITTLE, your airline would start to stand out. People will notice. You would gain job security. Who in the 121 world REALLY has that?

I wish you and your carrier luck. If everyone else shares your ideals, you are going to need it.:beer:

The problem with your ideals is most companies will exploit it....

It is one thing to pick up a little slack and wipe down the potty, but how'd would you like it to become your responsibility? Without an increase in pay? Then, where does it end...

I think 90% of us agree with you in principle, but the reality is different...

 

[Pervis]

I have my own job to do, and as I said, I do it to the best of my ability. If the company screws up things that aren't in my job description, then that's on them, not on me.

Just curious, but what decade were you born in? Serious question. I was on a SWA through flight and noticed their cockpit crew were glad to come on back and help out the FAs. Certainly not part of their job description, but they were team players. Everyone contributed to make it happen. Not much of that going around lately, it would seem. At least in your jet.

 

[PCL_128]

The problem with your ideals is most companies will exploit it....

Exactly. This is exactly what happened with our FAs. We had cabin cleaners in the hubs, and then a few years ago, the company realized that the FAs were all cleaning the cabin on turns when cleaners didn't show up. Suddenly cabin cleaners became few and far between, and FAs were left to clean the cabin pretty much every time. It became expected of them. The FAs had to resort to getting language put in their agreement that specifically states that they aren't responsible for cleaning the cabin in hub cities.

The company doesn't appreciate your extra efforts. They'll exploit them.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Honestly, I hear very few airline guys say anything negative about the frac pilots. It's only when a small minority of your guys start acting holier-than-thou and telling us that we should be wiping down lavs and throwing bags to make their flight leave on time that we get pissed off.

It amazes me that any airlines are still in business.

If we talked to one of our Owners like 121 guys are speaking to us on this board, we'd be fired.

"The customer is always right... Yeah right", says the airline employee.

In this case, it might not be true but we certainly know more about a 121 pilot's job description that the average passenger.

The same can be said about several of our Owners who are pilots. I can assure you 100% that any intelligent aviation knowledge question or suggestion is taken in stride and answered with tact by NetJets Pilots from our pilot-Owners.

Ego checked at the door. It's just not worth it to be right but end up wrong as a result.

You know... it used to be bad enough when agents and rampers started treating pax like garbage. I never thought I'd see the day when pilots did the same. Congrats on shocking me.

Love,

One of your Customers

 

[FLYLOW22]

Getting back to the lav. If everyone would clean it just once a day, it wouldn't get so nasty. It REALLY isn't that big of a deal. Honestly, who's holier than thou???

:beer:

Touche' Putty Cat!! Ouch!!

IMHO, when you compare the work done by a NetJets pilot on a typical flight against an airline flight, the airline guy wouldn't be able to keep up.

Ask me how I know.... I call them New Hires. i see it all the time. They adapt (I did too) with time and patience and sometimes a bit of a kick in the ass.

Maybe the "attitude" that 121 guys are perceiving from NJA pilots is really just amazement that airlines still exist with the level of laziness, feelings of entitlement and self serving actions displayed by more than a few 121 employees providing transportation services to us (as paying Customers) when we travel.

It's really shockingly amazing that several of these companies still exist in the marketplace.

 

[JungleJett]

PCL..

You are perfect for the job you perform. The results of your efforts, or lack thereof, are clearly evident to the traveling public.

When I came over from the airlines, it was a bit of a culture shock, but I really did not need to adapt...it really was not that. What I did learn was that with a little extra effort and showing the people you are flying that you actually care about them will bring personal and professional rewards which is something that I painfully watch wash away in the final years of my airline career.

The problem is that you have only seen one side of the equation where many of us see both. A lot of us have been airline pilots while very, very few of you have been with NJA. I do not expect the level of service that NJA offers while flying on the airlines. I am not so naive as to think it could happen. As I said before, I owners pay a HUGE premium to fly the way they do. What I do expect are some pretty basic things from the airlines...and they are continually failing to meet any sort of level of service.

By the way, my distaste for airline flying began way before I left. I commuted for 8 years and dealt with all the time as a "pax". I also non-rev'ed and saw the death spiral there as well.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Just curious, but what decade were you born in? Serious question. I was on a SWA through flight and noticed their cockpit crew were glad to come on back and help out the FAs. Certainly not part of their job description, but they were team players. Everyone contributed to make it happen. Not much of that going around lately, it would seem. At least in your jet.

SWA is the one company that doesn't exploit in employees... they don't have to ask, or push their employees to help out... the employees do so because they trust their management to respect them...

It amazes me that any airlines are still in business.

Like totally amazing!

If we talked to one of our Owners like 121 guys are speaking to us on this board, we'd be fired.

And yet you don't work for a 121 carrier...

"The customer is always right... Yeah right", says the airline employee.

So the onus is ont he airline employee to turn a profit and run a successful airline? What do the execs do?

In this case, it might not be true but we certainly know more about a 121 pilot's job description that the average passenger.

Then you know it doesn't include changing out honey pots and restocking crackers...

The same can be said about several of our Owners who are pilots. I can assure you 100% that any intelligent aviation knowledge question or suggestion is taken in stride and answered with tact by NetJets Pilots from our pilot-Owners.

Perhaps because they are owners...

Ego checked at the door. It's just not worth it to be right but end up wrong as a result.

You know... it used to be bad enough when agents and rampers started treating pax like garbage. I never thought I'd see the day when pilots did the same. Congrats on shocking me.

So what type of support do you get from management? Whip out your little pager and send a message that a certain level is service is required and it will more than likely get done...

Love,

One of your Customers

Perhaps you haven't been IN a 121 cockpit lately.. Many pilots are still trying to serve the customers however, we are not getting the support from the company... what do you suggest?

IMHO, when you compare the work done by a NetJets pilot on a typical flight against an airline flight, the airline guy wouldn't be able to keep up.

You are probably right... flying into uncontrolled GA airports and cleaning cabins isn't a 121 pilots realm.

But it seems that many 121 pilots successfully come over to NJA... so what is the deal?

Maybe the "attitude" that 121 guys are perceiving from NJA pilots is really just amazement that airlines still exist with the level of laziness, feelings of entitlement and self serving actions displayed by more than a few 121 employees providing transportation services to us (as paying Customers) when we travel.

It's really shockingly amazing that several of these companies still exist in the marketplace.

Again, we don't have the support from our managements.... the issue is much more complex...

Glad planty of 121 guys could find good employment at NJA...

 

[PCL_128]

By the way, my distaste for airline flying began way before I left. I commuted for 8 years and dealt with all the time as a "pax". I also non-rev'ed and saw the death spiral there as well.

You don't seem to understand. I'm not telling you that I like the service the airlines provide. I commuted for over five years. It was a miserable experience, and I would never try to claim that the airlines provide good service. What I am trying to tell you is that it isn't right for guys like you to blame the crewmembers for this lack of service. We are the ones doing our jobs. It's the management hacks that aren't doing theirs. They understaff, overwork, and generally disrespect their employees. The airplane you ride on isn't clean because management refuses to provide the cabin cleaners that are necessary to get it done. Your can of Coke now costs a buck instead of being free because management is so woefully incompetent that this is the only way they think they can generate revenue. Your bags are lost because management refuses to provide enough ramp staffing, so the rampers are constantly in a state of panic trying to get things done, and many bags fall through the cracks.

So, all I'm telling you is to place the blame in the proper place: with incompetent and corrupt airline management that simply doesn't care about the service that you are receiving, as long as they get a bigger bonus at the end of the year. Stop blaming the crews and expecting us to correct everything that management screws up.

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

Your right!!!!

It was a factual statement. Some airlines consider the exit row an "upgrade" and charge accordingly. We as normal passengers are not entitled to free upgrades just like any other passenger, and I am not going to pay $25 of my own money to sit in an exit row. I am also going to avoid sitting in the dual exit rows that do not recline. Try not to have heartburn over it. Besides, there's nothing your rep can do about my company pursuing CASS. That's a jumpseat agreement thing; I'm sure you understand the difference. If your FAs need able-bodied assitance then I'm sure they can ask us for it, just like what happened with me yesterday.

Your right imacdog, more and more airlines are charging for certain seats. Example, Delta now charges an added fee to sit in the exit row, window and isle seat. Oh yhea, they charge for any bag you check and they call it excess bag charge starting at the first bag. I wonder if they are still saying it is because of the high cost of fuel.
I like the fact that some of the 121 pilot community thinks I am are jumpseating and advise that I need to check-in with them the next time I fly in the back of their plane. It sure is fun to educate them about my status and tell them I am a business elite customer. I do it with a smile and certainly not with any negative tone. It is funny how it's their plane when they think I am a jumpseater, but it's company's when something goes wrong.

 

[fischman]

PCL_128,

Make all the excuses you want. Management is hundreds, sometimes thousands of miles away. YOU are the one on the front lines. YOU are the one who can make a difference. YOU are the one choosing not to.

It is YOUR choice if you want to go the extra mile to help your airline SURVIVE.

Or do nothing.