NetJets To Picket

[G4dude]

Here here...
Not to mention, they didn't change the plan, only the provider-no contract violation IMO.

Careful, the Luthiites will descend upon you with great wrath and indignation.

 

[Pervis]

Here here...
Not to mention, they didn't change the plan, only the provider-no contract violation IMO.

Have you looked at the options under the new plan? First post. Let me guess who you work for.

 

[G4dude]

Have you looked at the options under the new plan? First post. Let me guess who you work for.

I know a lot of guys who have looked, and who are very knowledgeable about financial stuff. None of them have complained yet. I am not adept at investing yet, so I don't have a well informed opinion.

 

[realityman]

I know a lot of guys who have looked, and who are very knowledgeable about financial stuff. None of them have complained yet. I am not adept at investing yet, so I don't have a well informed opinion.

Perception is reality, yes?

I've had the opposite experience. I've been investing for a while, still not great at it. But the folks I've spoken with who are very into this stuff and seem quite knowledgable are FURIOUS about this change. Fewer funds to choose from. Funds we can choose generally underperform similar funds at Fidelity. Oh, and let's not forget about the as-yet undisclosed fees on many of the funds we're going into.

I have quite a bit of money saved up now in my 401k. They are screwing with MY retirement money, and doing it in direct violation of our CBA, while giving me no details about the new program.
I don't care what the public thinks.

I will most definitely be one of the "six-figure morons" out there walking circles.

 

[G4dude]

Perception is reality, yes?

I've had the opposite experience. I've been investing for a while, still not great at it. But the folks I've spoken with who are very into this stuff and seem quite knowledgable are FURIOUS about this change. Fewer funds to choose from. Funds we can choose generally underperform similar funds at Fidelity. Oh, and let's not forget about the as-yet undisclosed fees on many of the funds we're going into.

I have quite a bit of money saved up now in my 401k. They are screwing with MY retirement money, and doing it in direct violation of our CBA, while giving me no details about the new program.
I don't care what the public thinks.

I will most definitely be one of the "six-figure morons" out there walking circles.

It just seems to me y'all are constantly looking for something to be angry about. My buds in the G have lots of 401K money too, and they are calm and serene about the change. The two groups think very differently, our attitudes in the cockpit and in life are happier and more contented. We talk about planes and boats and investments and politics and women, while you seem to talk about the contract and how stupid and dishonest management is. I like our way of thinking a lot better, Realityman, no offense intended. The NJI guys in the G4 are not happy with the attitudes of the majority of the A guys who have come over, it's not as enjoyable a job now. I personally wonder if union types can ever be happy.

 

[OPECJet]

It just seems to me y'all are constantly looking for something to be angry about. My buds in the G have lots of 401K money too, and they are calm and serene about the change. The two groups think very differently, our attitudes in the cockpit and in life are happier and more contented. We talk about planes and boats and investments and politics and women, while you seem to talk about the contract and how stupid and dishonest management is. I like our way of thinking a lot better, Realityman, no offense intended. The NJI guys in the G4 are not happy with the attitudes of the majority of the A guys who have come over, it's not as enjoyable a job now. I personally wonder if union types can ever be happy.

You're accustomed to working for a company that could impose whatever they wanted on you. It's not that way when working under a CBA. The company can do whatever it wants within the confines of the working agreement, just as you can do what you want in the airplane within the confines of the FOM / AFM. It's really no different. The company rightfully expects you to comply and will take action if you don't. The pilot group rightfully expects the company to comply with the CBA, and will take action if they don't.

"Union types" will be perfectly happy when the contract is followed. If it is not followed and something can be worked out before a grievance is filed, we're REALLY happy. That's the way it used to be before current management got on the property. You have only seen the union in protect mode against a hostile and inept management group. I say hostile mainly due to furlough threats, and inept because they are not using the current time to prepare the company for the future. At least not in a sustainable way.

Somewhere on the union site you can see number of grievances filed per year. Compare the numbers from previous management (RTS) to current. I believe a larger pilot group filed fewer grievances. Also look at grievances vs. arbitrations.

 

[Semore Butts]

We talk about planes and boats and investments and politics and women,

Do you think the NJA FO's, furloughed NJA FO's, and furloughed GLC people are talking about there boats and investments?

I'll bet if they aligned your duty assignment with your hire date, alot of GLC people would be talking about other things?

Typical F.U., I've got mine answer.

Read that Confessions of a Union Buster book yet? Didn't think so.

 

[nordo_2]

It just seems to me y'all are constantly looking for something to be angry about. My buds in the G have lots of 401K money too, and they are calm and serene about the change. The two groups think very differently, our attitudes in the cockpit and in life are happier and more contented. We talk about planes and boats and investments and politics and women, while you seem to talk about the contract and how stupid and dishonest management is. I like our way of thinking a lot better, Realityman, no offense intended. The NJI guys in the G4 are not happy with the attitudes of the majority of the A guys who have come over, it's not as enjoyable a job now. I personally wonder if union types can ever be happy.

Obtuse, much?

 

[G4dude]

Do you think the NJA FO's, furloughed NJA FO's, and furloughed GLC people are talking about there boats and investments?

I'll bet if they aligned your duty assignment with your hire date, alot of GLC people would be talking about other things?

Typical F.U., I've got mine answer.

Read that Confessions of a Union Buster book yet? Didn't think so.

My sympathies are with the union buster, albeit using legal tactics only. Sorry.

 

[realityman]

It just seems to me y'all are constantly looking for something to be angry about. My buds in the G have lots of 401K money too, and they are calm and serene about the change. The two groups think very differently, our attitudes in the cockpit and in life are happier and more contented. We talk about planes and boats and investments and politics and women, while you seem to talk about the contract and how stupid and dishonest management is. I like our way of thinking a lot better, Realityman, no offense intended. The NJI guys in the G4 are not happy with the attitudes of the majority of the A guys who have come over, it's not as enjoyable a job now. I personally wonder if union types can ever be happy.

I understand. Read what CA1900 wrote. That's it exactly. All those things you talk about while flying, we talk about the same. AND we talk about the current state of things between the company and labor.

You joined our union during the transition to a mostly hostile management team. You haven't been working under our contract, and as CA1900 said, maybe are used to changes without worry. We were actually pretty darn happy and content after the '05 contract. The '07 IBB made it even better. Sure, a few complained. But come one, you know as well as I do that in any group of people, if you tell them you'll pay them $1 million a year to work Wednesdays only, one or two will always say EVERY WEDNESDAY?! So yes, there has been so ongoing griping, but mostly I've seen a pretty happy and content pilot group.
UNTIL the new team started messing with our contract. I bring up the 401k thing a lot, but mainly because it's one of the most glaring examples. There are many more.

I used the 'building a house with a contractor who violated the contract' example previously to try to make my point. I don't think it really sunk in with you. How about this: Just making up some numbers here, but let's say under our contract, and at your years of service, you should get $4000 in each paycheck (after withholding taxes, 401k contribution, elective coverages, etc...). You get this amount EVERY paycheck and it's what is specified in section 27 of our CBA. Now suppose on your next paycheck, it shows up for only $3900. What are you going to do? Let it slide? After all, it's ONLY $100 out of $4000. At the end of the month you'll have received $7800 in take-home pay, and only been shorted $200. Will you speak up about it? What if the company says "Sorry, not interested in hearing your whining. We're hurting and this will help us.". So, will you pursue it? What if they short you $500 in each paycheck? How about only $50? How much would they need to short you on your paycheck before you might be willing to picket (with others who have been shorted) to express your displeasure about it?

Well, this 401k change could potentially cost each of us THOUSANDS of dollars. Admittedly, I won't know for certain until AFTER the change has been completed, but given the lack of details forthcoming from the company, combined with the CBA violation, combined with others who know about this stuff who are VERY upset about it, does not give me confidence that this move will be good for our retirement accounts.

Here's another way to look at it. If this was going to be such a good thing for all of us, what would have been so hard about the company complying with the contract in regards to this change? You haven't been part of this union for very long, but I've been in it for 15 years now, and I've never seen them turn down something from the company that would be good for the entire group. So if this change is so great, as the company contends, why not work within the confines of the CBA to make it happen? Why are they keeping so many of the details about this switch so secret, even now? We're not talking about the company's business plan here, we're talking about OUR money. Don't you think we're ENTITLED to the details BEFORE the change happens? I've heard a lot about the non-union types about how difficult the union is making things, "Luthi's rantings", malcontent pilots, why don't we just let things happen, etc... but I haven't seen much from these same people looking with a critical eye at the company's actions. If this change is so wonderful, our CBA would most assuredly NOT have been a roadblock to getting it implemented. In fact, it could have been done cooperatively (as required), and garnered a tremendous amount of good will amongst the pilots.

So have you asked yourself why the company has chosen the more difficult route?