NetJets To Picket

[Helmsalee]

G4, read the book. It gives a play by play.

 

[fischman]

But wouldn't making you guys angry make the union stronger and more aggressive? Yes, and yes. Not only does it waken a sleeping giant, it also angers other non-bargaining employees at the company. Then they organize. Look at the dispatchers for example. The more he upsets us, the more he will get what he doesn't want. How would that help get rid of the union? It doesn't make sense to me. I think there is another explanation for what happened at the meeting, but I have no idea what it is.

Comments in red above. JH was going for a divide and conquer tactic. The pre-written blast email that was sent after the meeting is evidence of that. He was hoping that there would be suckers who ACTUALLY blame the union leadership for the failure of the meeting and you be vocal.

He had NO intention of having a productive meeting with the union. If he didn't leave because of the lawyers, it would have been something else (a remark taken out of context, the way someone holds a coffee cup, the color of someone's shirt, etc...). He, and the entire current EMT, hasn't learned what happens to the pilots when they become upset.

If you're curious of my opinion as to "another explanation for what happened at the meeting" it is inexperience and bad leadership from the CEO.

 

[BentOver]

Comments in red above. JH was going for a divide and conquer tactic. The pre-written blast email that was sent after the meeting is evidence of that. He was hoping that there would be suckers who ACTUALLY blame the union leadership for the failure of the meeting and you be vocal.

He had NO intention of having a productive meeting with the union. If he didn't leave because of the lawyers, it would have been something else (a remark taken out of context, the way someone holds a coffee cup, the color of someone's shirt, etc...). He, and the entire current EMT, hasn't learned what happens to the pilots when they become upset.

If you're curious of my opinion as to "another explanation for what happened at the meeting" it is inexperience and bad leadership from the CEO.

and furthermore... from probably '05-late 2009 ( I was there starting in '07) there seemed to be excellent union-management relationship. Outstanding even, especially from '07 on.

Many of the current non-bargaining groups may remember how the relationship was so great and EVERYONE seemed to be so happy. Things were going SO well etc... Now things are not, and what is the one major difference between now and then? A new EMT...Everything else being somewhat equal, the management team appears to be the only component that has destroyed everything. (destroyed meaning the atmosphere, sense of pride and any chance of a on time recovery...Santulli would have had us back by now or atleast on a schedule consistent with what was advertised)

 

[gunfyter]

They just don't get it. They need to watch Santulli's videos. riding out a Recession and Proving to your customers that you care

http://view.fiftylessons.com/viewlesson.asp?l=745

 

[acaTerry]

They just don't get it. They need to watch Santulli's videos. riding out a Recession and Proving to your customers that you care

http://view.fiftylessons.com/viewlesson.asp?l=745

Hmmmm...pretty neat.

 

[BentOver]

I live in Delaware and I was there. I had recurrent the previous week and just stayed a couple of extra days. (I coordinated alternate last day travel) Of course it meant that I’m only home for 2 days before going back on the road but to walk the line with 75-80 of my brothers - priceless.

Having my wife there was just icing on the cake.

Congrats Grizz, ya made the blog!!:beer:

although I think the pet name is kinda dumb.... Then again, the idiots we are dealing with are kinda dumb also.....

 

[BentOver]

If you're curious of my opinion as to "another explanation for what happened at the meeting" it is inexperience and bad leadership from the CEO.

And there it is in a nutshell.... By far the worst management I've ever witnessed. Aviation or otherwise.. Well there was that guy Bernie M.

 

[imacdog]

I can't figure out what advantage the company thinks it gets by antagonizing the union. Why not play nice? I don't get it.

Wow, the first post you've made that isn't 100% retarded. Congratulations, you're finally learning.

 

[G4dude]

Wow, the first post you've made that isn't 100% retarded. Congratulations, you're finally learning.

Thank you!

 

[Lord Wakefield]

They just don't get it. They need to watch Santulli's videos. riding out a Recession and Proving to your customers that you care

http://view.fiftylessons.com/viewlesson.asp?l=745

That's the difference. It was his company and our company. The same can not be said of Sokol and JH.

I was able to understand the Brooklynese even w/o the subtitles.
FWIW, the unclear word at 2:11 is Zeitgeist.

 

[OPECJet]

They just don't get it. They need to watch Santulli's videos. riding out a Recession and Proving to your customers that you care

http://view.fiftylessons.com/viewlesson.asp?l=745

They aren't going to watch Santulli's videos. Doing what Santulli did doesn't maximize profit, it maximizes Netjets.

Anyone have any ideas on what Jordie Buttwhistle's motivations are? I still haven't figured out in which arena he's trying to make a name for himself. Business world, or labor law world. Seems there would be more $$$ in the business world.

 

[G4dude]

Comments in red above. JH was going for a divide and conquer tactic. The pre-written blast email that was sent after the meeting is evidence of that. He was hoping that there would be suckers who ACTUALLY blame the union leadership for the failure of the meeting and you be vocal.

He had NO intention of having a productive meeting with the union. If he didn't leave because of the lawyers, it would have been something else (a remark taken out of context, the way someone holds a coffee cup, the color of someone's shirt, etc...). He, and the entire current EMT, hasn't learned what happens to the pilots when they become upset.

If you're curious of my opinion as to "another explanation for what happened at the meeting" it is inexperience and bad leadership from the CEO.

NJA's behavior at that meeting is so incomprehensible, I don't think stupidity is the explanation. The only thing I can think of is, maybe events did not happen as they were explained to us. Question is, if I am correct, who is lying? And why?

 

[fischman]

NJA's behavior at that meeting is so incomprehensible, I don't think stupidity is the explanation. The only thing I can think of is, maybe events did not happen as they were explained to us. Question is, if I am correct, who is lying? And why?

Well, I don't think your question needs to be answered because most respectfully, you are wrong. Stupidity is the explanation. He wanted to divide, but instead he strengthened the union. Now he is scrambling

Look for a mailer to come to your house next from the company outlining the "deplorable actions of the nefarious union." This is also a divide and conquer tactic designed to fill our heads with fear and doubt in the union leaders. It will all be half-truths and lies that are almost believable that you will think "maybe the EMT actually wanted to meet" and "I never knew the union was that evil". Remember. THEY ARE HALF TRUTHS AND LIES.

The ONLY group in that meeting who are ACTUALLY concerned with US (the pilots) were the union leaders. The EMT is ONLY concerned about THEMSELVES. Want proof? Ask STW if he plans to be here in 2 years. Ask BN the same question (when he tells you yes ask him why he's selling his house then).

 

[G4dude]

Well, I don't think your question needs to be answered because most respectfully, you are wrong. Stupidity is the explanation. He wanted to divide, but instead he strengthened the union. Now he is scrambling

Look for a mailer to come to your house next from the company outlining the "deplorable actions of the nefarious union." This is also a divide and conquer tactic designed to fill our heads with fear and doubt in the union leaders. It will all be half-truths and lies that are almost believable that you will think "maybe the EMT actually wanted to meet" and "I never knew the union was that evil". Remember. THEY ARE HALF TRUTHS AND LIES.

The ONLY group in that meeting who are ACTUALLY concerned with US (the pilots) were the union leaders. The EMT is ONLY concerned about THEMSELVES. Want proof? Ask STW if he plans to be here in 2 years. Ask BN the same question (when he tells you yes ask him why he's selling his house then).

You might be right. However, I know BN and SE, and they are definitely NOT stupid. If they are leaving for greener pastures, I wonder which pastures they are gazing at?

 

[fischman]

You might be right. However, I know BN and SE, and they are definitely NOT stupid. If they are leaving for greener pastures, I wonder which pastures they are gazing at?

They might not be stupid, but they are unwilling (or afraid) to stand up and do what it right for their employees. Instead they have decided to be "yes" men to the Sokol/Hansell regime.

That in itself isn't smart.

 

[BentOver]

Well, I don't think your question needs to be answered because most respectfully, you are wrong. Stupidity is the explanation. He wanted to divide, but instead he strengthened the union. Now he is scrambling

Look for a mailer to come to your house next from the company outlining the "deplorable actions of the nefarious union." This is also a divide and conquer tactic designed to fill our heads with fear and doubt in the union leaders. It will all be half-truths and lies that are almost believable that you will think "maybe the EMT actually wanted to meet" and "I never knew the union was that evil". Remember. THEY ARE HALF TRUTHS AND LIES.

The ONLY group in that meeting who are ACTUALLY concerned with US (the pilots) were the union leaders. The EMT is ONLY concerned about THEMSELVES. Want proof? Ask STW if he plans to be here in 2 years. Ask BN the same question (when he tells you yes ask him why he's selling his house then).

Look for Eyers nice digs in that golf course community to go for sale soon too! (I bet)

Hansell's nice farmhouse will be up soon to. They are scrambling and losing and they know it.

First thing that happens when you realize you're in trouble is you figure out ways to be more fluid. (When Sokol took over the first thing I did was figure out how I could get out of my mortgage the quickest.) They have more scratch than us line guys so they can weather storms a little better, but a $750K+ home is still expensive when you are outta work.

 

[CA1900]

NJA's behavior at that meeting is so incomprehensible, I don't think stupidity is the explanation. The only thing I can think of is, maybe events did not happen as they were explained to us. Question is, if I am correct, who is lying? And why?

The company is, without question.

Why? To try and make the union look bad. In reality, all they've done is unify us.

 

[brokeflyer]

that management team is going to completely destroy a once great company. If they would just honor the agreement they signed, NJ would really thrive. If they spent half the time on sales as they trying to destroy the pilot group, nj would be unstoppable.

really sad how management is treating it's employees.

 

[G4dude]

The company is, without question.

Why? To try and make the union look bad. In reality, all they've done is unify us.

That's my point! Anybody would have known it would unify the union folks. So, who would benefit from this imbroglio? Seems to me, with all due respect, that this incident was engineered by Luthi. I don't know much of anything about union relations, but I know that needlessly aggravating the union is a BAD idea. I am suggesting BN and SE knew that too. Luthi set this up and carried it out, and it was a smart move. It got some smart members fired up, ready to storm the battlements.

 

[rajflyboy]

The pilots are happy wtih the contract and don't want to start no crap

we could live a happy marriage and work on sales and be a big happy family together

Pilots love airplanes and love flying them. Pilots don't want to start any crap at a time when they are happy. Just leave em alone

<<< but not even a christmas party to be found

oh well "It is What It Is"

 

[G4dude]

The pilots are happy wtih the contract and don't want to start no crap

we could live a happy marriage and work on sales and be a big happy family together

Pilots love airplanes and love flying them. Pilots don't want to start any crap at a time when they are happy. Just leave em alone

<<< but not even a christmas party to be found

oh well "It is What It Is"

My sentiments exactly!

 

[rajflyboy]

G4

Have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

 

[CA1900]

That's my point! Anybody would have known it would unify the union folks.

I'm not so sure that they know that. I think JH, like his predecessor who hired and taught him, still thinks he's dealing with a group of uneducated electrical workers. I'd absolutely believe that he was surprised we didn't just roll over for a chance to hear the "plan."

So, who would benefit from this imbroglio? Seems to me, with all due respect, that this incident was engineered by Luthi. I don't know much of anything about union relations...

Let's just leave it at that, then. Only one party tried to change the ground rules at the 11th hour, and it wasn't Luthi.

 

[BentOver]

Only 1 thing we need to know about the 3 minute meeting. It wasn't Luthi and Co. who wanted it to end abruptly with nothing getting accomplished...

The EMT is searching for anything they can pin on the Union to deflect attention from the fact they are not getting the job done... They are passing their propoganda message along to anyone who will listen. Which will probably be limited to only people like screen readers, the cleaners, and maybe a few people that take care of the expense reports.



And again, there is only 1 denominator that has changed over the last 6-7 years... The EMT.... I think in this case it is prudent to realize and understand that all else being somewhat equal, the EMT is the one who is rocking the boat but they don't have a life jacket(sales) to back it up. Maybe if they were actually showing improvements they would have a leg to stand on, but to this point they have accomplished nothing to make NJA better besides do some obvious things that any line pilot could have thought of or already has..

 

[CA1900]

... screen readers, the cleaners, and maybe a few people that take care of the expense reports...

Until they all unionize, too. :laugh:

 

[G4dude]

G4

Have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

Same to you and everyone here, even Brokeflyer.

 

[G4dude]

Only 1 thing we need to know about the 3 minute meeting. It wasn't Luthi and Co. who wanted it to end abruptly with nothing getting accomplished...

The EMT is searching for anything they can pin on the Union to deflect attention from the fact they are not getting the job done... They are passing their propoganda message along to anyone who will listen. Which will probably be limited to only people like screen readers, the cleaners, and maybe a few people that take care of the expense reports.



And again, there is only 1 denominator that has changed over the last 6-7 years... The EMT.... I think in this case it is prudent to realize and understand that all else being somewhat equal, the EMT is the one who is rocking the boat but they don't have a life jacket(sales) to back it up. Maybe if they were actually showing improvements they would have a leg to stand on, but to this point they have accomplished nothing to make NJA better besides do some obvious things that any line pilot could have thought of or already has..

I think the other denominator is the stagnant economy, Bent. This 15 trillion dollar debt has me and lots of other people scared to death, including lots of potential owners. It is now 100 percent of GDP and rising.

 

[CA1900]

So why are all our competitors growing?

 

[nordo_2]

So why are all our competitors growing?

Because BRK has had it with this place.

 

[BentOver]

Because BRK has had it with this place.

Unfortunately I agree with you...

For the sake of discussion....
Why not sell it?? Why shrink it and decrease it's resale value?

I'm sure there's some financial wizardry I don't know about, but 1 thing I do know is not to purchase something that is decreasing in value. (except an automobole of course, then again my first auto was a 1967 Camaro that I sold for more than I bought it, 3 years later)


Can anyone explain why BRK simply won't sell it. Especially when the rumor was RTS wanted it back at some point. Pride??

Hang in there Nordo, the one thing I don't think is going to happen is another furlough (gut feeling). If they have had plans to shrink this place I believe they would have furloughed already due to the "shrinkage plan". As it stands they "plan" on taking more planes later next year and into 2013, Plus 2016 and beyond. The time for furloughing is coming to an end IMO. Remember that window (18 months) a furlough would have to be in effect to be worth the $$...

Of course that's subject to change whenever Jordo, Billy, and Shane the Pain decide to piss into the wind. YES GOOSE, THAT WAS FOR YOU.