NetJets TA Reached

[Dep676]

Any news on the new airports you can travel from?

 

[hammer2]

jeez what willl we talk about ? I know! Hey flex jeters didn't managment promise you would be the highest paid in the industry? Just curious.

 

[Mach92]

NJI NJI NJI NJI yea 3 years from now we will be one big happy or in some cases not so happy family. Yes NJI "they" tossed you under the bus. Welcome to having a UNION.

 

[Hogprint]

Hawkered posted:

Family Guy put endless hours in on the board, providing a balance between the points of view that were being expressed. He did it late into the night and showed us all that there really are people in management that are devoted to a successful turn of events

Dude. Were you drinking when you read his posts? Make no mistake, Famguy et al., were here to do one thing. That was to spread disinformation. You put up a good fight, but no one was listening.

How about it moles? I guess they COULD afford it after all. Kind of hard to cry poor when your launching scheduled service out of the three biggest metropolitan areas in the country and many others with our blokes across the pond.

What was the straw that broke the camels back?

 

[rice]

The comparison will be done by the Union. They will compare the current CBA, the TA that was voted down and the new TA.
I agree that the numbers are not extraordinary. However, in my case it amounts to a 50% raise. I will be making over six figures when all pay including OT, per diem etc is figured. So compared to now, that is good. Scope is very important too. If our jobs are protected, it is worth a lot. Am I ecstatic?? No. Am I happy that it's over and I can make a respectable and decent living while also having the free time to make money in another business? Yes.

Again Congrats!!!
Just curious, what type of other business? I'm always looking for ways to make more money and since my employer won't let me do contract work on my off time .....................:angryfire
Good luck to all of you at NJA, it's sure been a long road so far.

 

[Photoflight]

Congrats and maybe in a year we'll see yah!

One question though, how did the retro pay pan out for ya'll?

 

[TurboJetCpt]

It seems the management "flightinfo.com" trolls have been paid and have now left the building. Good riddance.

 

[You're right]

It seems the management "flightinfo.com" trolls have been paid and have now left the building. Good riddance.

Turbo, the most comical thing about your statement is that you truly do believe everyone responding to you is a "hired hand". I know each of them--they are not. In your mind, anyone that would think differently than you MUST be "hired"; that is sad. Trust me, Family Guy, et al, are not going away, they are dedicated employees with genuine concerns for the viability of this company.

You have a good, fair TA now so stop trying to continually tear down YOUR CO-WORKERS!!! Go vote "yes" and concentrate on helping build the service back at this company--as the rest of us "hired hands" will do.

 

[gray eagle]

.....,,,,....

 

[dukeofdub]

It seems the management "flightinfo.com" trolls have been paid and have now left the building. Good riddance.

Turbo,
As long as we can work together and work for the common good you will find us agreeable. Like YR said, stop tearing down your fellow employees. It is time for you to review the TA, make your decision and vote. Then lets all get to work together. We have a lot of profit to generate and waste to find to afford this TA. We are ready to go all the way and make NetJets profitable and we will have to do it together.

 

[h25b]

Yes NJI "they" tossed you under the bus. Welcome to having a UNION.

If this is true, they're not the only ones that got "thrown under the bus." When you've got a 5 yr. Falcon 2000/Citation X F.O. making 47K I'm sure they will feel like you did the same to them...

One look at those rate tells me and anyone else that while the more senior pilots might have enjoyed some success with this TA the junior/future NJA pilots got screwed.

Try and remember that as you're bashing your beer mugs together, we'll no doubt be here about 3 yrs. from now hearing from those pilots and how unfairly they are paid. You know, "reduced priced" lunches and all... At least someone should acknowledge this fact...

You did a great job overall, but let's not act like you didn't cave in some areas...

 

[Hogprint]

You're right posted:

You have a good, fair TA now so stop trying to continually tear down YOUR CO-WORKERS!!! Go vote "yes" and concentrate on helping build the service back at this company--as the rest of us "hired hands" will do.

We're not tearing down any coworkers. As far as we know FamGuy isn't a coworker. He has never once (that I know) stated what it is he does at Netjets. I have nothing but respect for the dispatchers, flight managers, and ACPs that I deal with on a day to day basis. With only a few exceptions we have worked together to make this a better place. The problem we have is with the people that have stood in the way of progress.

This is what we have seen. A CompanyGuy shows up about six months ago and every post he makes is in direct opposition to our cause. Same posts, same theme, retreaded over and over. Trying to plant seeds of doubt. Poor mouthing and carrying the company's water. As soon as the marching memo comes over the company net, guess who starts posting the talking points on this board? This type of attitude from on high has drug this out for four years.

You did get one thing right. The service has suffered because of the strategy the company employed for this fight. I'm all for mending fences, but before we start rubbing helmets let's not forget that this should have been taken care of four years ago. DisinformationGuy was the most vocal of the beasts of burden the company used to spread the word on here.

I agree it's time to focus energy on getting our reputation back. The company should take the lead. Stop violating the contract. Stop punitive scheduling. On the surface the TA looks like an olive branch, but the whole thing hasn't come out and it still has to be ratified.

I will be convinced when I see positive movement on both fronts.

 

[Hogprint]

dukeofdub posted:

We have a lot of profit to generate and waste to find to afford this TA.

Why have you waited until NOW to try and trim the fat? You knew this day would come eight years ago.

I think this process has shown that it truly does take a TEAM effort.

 

[Flying Illini]

Question:

If you are a 5th year FO and you get the upgrade nod, do you then make 5th year captain pay? Or is that year not a marker of time with the company, just a time in seat marker?

5th year FO: 47405
1st year Capt: 52500

If it reverts back to year one, that's only a $5000 pay raise when you make capt.

 

[You're right]

My two favorite Hog quotes:

The problem we have is with the people that have stood in the way of progress.

Besides, I got into this business so I could have the time off and play!

You can't have it both ways in a business Hog.....

I'm as happy as the next guy that this is close to being over. Only time will tell if we can truly afford the "deal" and the service damage that has been done.

 

[You're right]

Question:

If you are a 5th year FO and you get the upgrade nod, do you then make 5th year captain pay? Or is that year not a marker of time with the company, just a time in seat marker?

5th year FO: 47405
1st year Capt: 52500

If it reverts back to year one, that's only a $5000 pay raise when you make capt.

This must be the most insane comparison I've ever seen..... IF you are a 5th year FO (FO pay) at NetJet's you have done something seriously wrong.

 

[h25b]

This must be the most insane comparison I've ever seen..... IF you are a 5th year FO (FO pay) at NetJet's you have done something seriously wrong.

You will eventually see a time where upgrades will have slowed and you will have 5 yr. F.O.'s.. The all-knowing young crowd of Comair pilots used to think the same way you do... It won't last and even Diesel understands this...

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I very respectfully agree with H25B.

Rapid growth and quick upgrades are historically an anomaly.

Ideally companies would hire people and immediately train them as if they were all Captains. (type-rate them) After a short adjustment period the first officers would be assets to the captains, valued crewmembers rather than considered a student or apprentice.

H25B is right. Growth can not continue indefinately. At some point in the future attrition and growth will halt, and you will have first officers for 5...10...15+ years (witness 17 year F/Os at US Airways who are furloughed).

 

[h25b]

H25B is right. Growth can not continue indefinately. At some point in the future attrition and growth will halt, and you will have first officers for 5...10...15+ years (witness 17 year F/Os at US Airways who are furloughed).

You've already got a guy posting a thread saying he has interviews at CS and NJA that mentions the fact that upgrades will be slow and 5th yr. F.O. pay is "only 47k." Weren't they all on here telling us how hard it was for NJA to recruit ??

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=63886

 

[Correcting]

Retro pay is $40,000 divided by 48 times the number of months you have been at NJA since the last contract expired (48 months ago). So someone who has been here since the last contract expired get all 40k. Someone who's been here a year gets approx 10k. Not 100% retro, but it blows away the retro in the rejected TA.

It is paid in a 60/40 split. 60% right away (deferrable to Jan 1, 2006) and the 40% paid at 1 year after ratification (deferable to Jan 1, 2007). Or can have it paid in 4 equal installments each Jan 1.

 

[hatetoadmitit]

jeez what willl we talk about ? I know! Hey flex jeters didn't managment promise you would be the highest paid in the industry? Just curious.

We have learned not to trust the management at flexjet!!!!!!!! They did promise that we would be the highest paid in the industry. Time will show just how worthless that promise was.

 

[FamilyGuy]

dukeofdub posted:
We have a lot of profit to generate and waste to find to afford this TA.


Why have you waited until NOW to try and trim the fat? You knew this day would come eight years ago.

I think this process has shown that it truly does take a TEAM effort.

WHO said that we have waited till now to try and trim fat?

You need to wake up and look around you. There has been a lot of work done over the last few years to make NetJets more efficient.

What dub is saying is that those efforts will need to be continued and taken even further than has currently been done.

 

[Hogprint]

You can't have it both ways in a business Hog.....

I'm as happy as the next guy that this is close to being over. Only time will tell if we can truly afford the "deal" and the service damage that has been done.

Let me clarify. The people standing in the way I'm referring to is you and your ilk. You're a little late to the game so I guess that is why your on here throwing roundhouse punches. Take a hint from your senior moles and just shut yer yapper.

You're right, You're wrong again. You can have it both ways. Sit back, pop a sedative and watch me play.

 

[Hogprint]

WHO said that we have waited till now to try and trim fat?

The Duke said it:

We have a lot of profit to generate and waste to find to afford this TA.

You need to wake up and look around you. There has been a lot of work done over the last few years to make NetJets more efficient.

Eyes wide open. I've seen it. The Duke obviously has not.

What dub is saying is that those efforts will need to be continued and taken even further than has currently been done.

What have YOU done for NJA today?

 

[hydrarkt]

Again Congrats!!!
Just curious, what type of other business? I'm always looking for ways to make more money and since my employer won't let me do contract work on my off time .....................:angryfire
Good luck to all of you at NJA, it's sure been a long road so far.

Well, I dabble a little in real estate. I bought a 3 family apartment building 2 years ago.. it brings in about $600 per month when fully rented. I am now looking to purchase another one. If it works out, the income should be about the same. There are headaches but in the end, with appreciation and the tax benefits, it will be worth it.
In the future, I'll probably do something with a franchise.. not sure which one at this point... depends on different things. It's tough to run a business when you're gone half the time. That's why real estate works. Of course, if you're married and want to get the wife involved, there are many options.

 

[FamilyGuy]

We're not tearing down any coworkers. As far as we know FamGuy isn't a coworker. He has never once (that I know) stated what it is he does at Netjets. I have nothing but respect for the dispatchers, flight managers, and ACPs that I deal with on a day to day basis. With only a few exceptions we have worked together to make this a better place. The problem we have is with the people that have stood in the way of progress.

This is what we have seen. A CompanyGuy shows up about six months ago and every post he makes is in direct opposition to our cause. Same posts, same theme, retreaded over and over. Trying to plant seeds of doubt. Poor mouthing and carrying the company's water. As soon as the marching memo comes over the company net, guess who starts posting the talking points on this board? This type of attitude from on high has drug this out for four years.

You did get one thing right. The service has suffered because of the strategy the company employed for this fight. I'm all for mending fences, but before we start rubbing helmets let's not forget that this should have been taken care of four years ago. DisinformationGuy was the most vocal of the beasts of burden the company used to spread the word on here.

Hog - you need to stop confusing another viewpoint as disinformation.

There are always two sides (or more) to every debate. Sticking your head in the sand and refusing to acknowledge the other sides points will simply lead to stalemates, frustration, and ultimately failure.

Pointing out those alternate viewpoints and poking holes in the union's reasoning does not constitute "standing in the way of progress".

As I've stated numerous times on this board before, the union should be grateful for my contributions and insight as it points out the flaws in your arguments and keeps your negotiators from making points that are easily refuted.

And as we've discussed repeatedly in the past, both sides share the blame for this taking four years.

You lament that most of my posts were of the same theme, and "retreaded over and over". Since all of my posts were in response to the garbage being spewed on this forum, then it should be no surprise that there was little variation, since the union supporters on this site kept rehashing the same tired arguments again and again. My responses were simply the counterpoint and reflection of the pro-union positions on this site.

As for the service, I suspect that it isnt the only thing that has suffered because of this dispute. You want to lay the blame for service degradation at the company's doorstep, when we all know that the service suffered directly as a result of the union's slow down campaign. Looks like both sides share some blame for the service decline...

The union's strategy and tactics during these negotiations have also lowered the bar - forever I'm afraid - and done irreparable harm to the company and the family atmosphere that we once enjoyed. After this episode, I simply do not see Mr. Santulli carrying an extra 150 pilots when we are fat....furloughs will become the name of the game for the union represented segments.

 

[Fozzy]

The union's strategy and tactics during these negotiations have also lowered the bar (WHAT ABOUT MANAGEMENTS TACTICS?)- forever I'm afraid - and done irreparable harm to the company (LETS NOT MENTION MANAGEMENT, SCHEDULING OR O.S.) and the family atmosphere that we once enjoyed (READ A-TEAM, I AM GLAD WE ARE NOT SUCH A FAMILY, BUT A BUSINESS NOW. FAVORITISM MUST END) . After this episode, I simply do not (WE HAVE NOT SEEN MR SANTULLI EITHER) see Mr. Santulli carrying an extra 150 pilots when we are fat....(CAUTION FUD ALERT!!!)furloughs will become the name of the game for the union represented segments (WHICH IN 3 YEARS WILL BE ALL OF THE NETJETS FRACTIONAL FLYING).

Familyguy,
Go pound sand.

 

[ominbnd]

I work for another fractional so I've just been watching from the sidelines. Congrats guys!! I'm interested in hearing about the fine print though. How do the preliminary pay #'s compare with what you were asking?

 

[Hogprint]

Will someone go shake FamGuy awake in his rack....he's talking in his sleep again.

Sticking your head in the sand and refusing to acknowledge the other sides points will simply lead to stalemates, frustration, and ultimately failure.

That doesn't seem to be the case now does it?

Pointing out those alternate viewpoints and poking holes in the union's reasoning does not constitute "standing in the way of progress".

That is fine, but we both know (and others have pointed it out also) you and the other company men who have magically appeared on here this year have done your fair share of spreading the gospel according to Bridgeway. We read the company intranet also. Much like management reads our board, illegally I may add.

As I've stated numerous times on this board before, the union should be grateful for my contributions and insight as it points out the flaws in your arguments and keeps your negotiators from making points that are easily refuted.

Oh..I see. You secured this TA for us...thanks!

service suffered directly as a result of the union's slow down campaign

How many times do we have to stomp this fire out? Illegal. Didn't happen. See above post about retreaded themes.

The union's strategy and tactics during these negotiations have also lowered the bar - forever I'm afraid - and done irreparable harm to the company and the family atmosphere that we once enjoyed. After this episode, I simply do not see Mr. Santulli carrying an extra 150 pilots when we are fat....furloughs will become the name of the game for the union represented segments.

See Fozzy's post above.

 

[Cpt Splash]

Its going to be interesting to see Flexjet's response. Management does brag about our pilots being the most paid but our schedule doesn't come close to what Netjets gets. Also our current gateway system is really hurting us hiring more pilots. And if you mention the "U" word around the office your sure to get the little piece of paper in your mailbox telling you to come on in for a talk with the CP.

On a lighter note, congrats guys on the TA. I really hope this does set the standard in the industry