NetJets TA Reached

[hatetoadmitit]

jeez what willl we talk about ? I know! Hey flex jeters didn't managment promise you would be the highest paid in the industry? Just curious.

We have learned not to trust the management at flexjet!!!!!!!! They did promise that we would be the highest paid in the industry. Time will show just how worthless that promise was.

 

[FamilyGuy]

dukeofdub posted:
We have a lot of profit to generate and waste to find to afford this TA.


Why have you waited until NOW to try and trim the fat? You knew this day would come eight years ago.

I think this process has shown that it truly does take a TEAM effort.

WHO said that we have waited till now to try and trim fat?

You need to wake up and look around you. There has been a lot of work done over the last few years to make NetJets more efficient.

What dub is saying is that those efforts will need to be continued and taken even further than has currently been done.

 

[Hogprint]

You can't have it both ways in a business Hog.....

I'm as happy as the next guy that this is close to being over. Only time will tell if we can truly afford the "deal" and the service damage that has been done.

Let me clarify. The people standing in the way I'm referring to is you and your ilk. You're a little late to the game so I guess that is why your on here throwing roundhouse punches. Take a hint from your senior moles and just shut yer yapper.

You're right, You're wrong again. You can have it both ways. Sit back, pop a sedative and watch me play.

 

[Hogprint]

WHO said that we have waited till now to try and trim fat?

The Duke said it:

We have a lot of profit to generate and waste to find to afford this TA.

You need to wake up and look around you. There has been a lot of work done over the last few years to make NetJets more efficient.

Eyes wide open. I've seen it. The Duke obviously has not.

What dub is saying is that those efforts will need to be continued and taken even further than has currently been done.

What have YOU done for NJA today?

 

[hydrarkt]

Again Congrats!!!
Just curious, what type of other business? I'm always looking for ways to make more money and since my employer won't let me do contract work on my off time .....................:angryfire
Good luck to all of you at NJA, it's sure been a long road so far.

Well, I dabble a little in real estate. I bought a 3 family apartment building 2 years ago.. it brings in about $600 per month when fully rented. I am now looking to purchase another one. If it works out, the income should be about the same. There are headaches but in the end, with appreciation and the tax benefits, it will be worth it.
In the future, I'll probably do something with a franchise.. not sure which one at this point... depends on different things. It's tough to run a business when you're gone half the time. That's why real estate works. Of course, if you're married and want to get the wife involved, there are many options.

 

[FamilyGuy]

We're not tearing down any coworkers. As far as we know FamGuy isn't a coworker. He has never once (that I know) stated what it is he does at Netjets. I have nothing but respect for the dispatchers, flight managers, and ACPs that I deal with on a day to day basis. With only a few exceptions we have worked together to make this a better place. The problem we have is with the people that have stood in the way of progress.

This is what we have seen. A CompanyGuy shows up about six months ago and every post he makes is in direct opposition to our cause. Same posts, same theme, retreaded over and over. Trying to plant seeds of doubt. Poor mouthing and carrying the company's water. As soon as the marching memo comes over the company net, guess who starts posting the talking points on this board? This type of attitude from on high has drug this out for four years.

You did get one thing right. The service has suffered because of the strategy the company employed for this fight. I'm all for mending fences, but before we start rubbing helmets let's not forget that this should have been taken care of four years ago. DisinformationGuy was the most vocal of the beasts of burden the company used to spread the word on here.

Hog - you need to stop confusing another viewpoint as disinformation.

There are always two sides (or more) to every debate. Sticking your head in the sand and refusing to acknowledge the other sides points will simply lead to stalemates, frustration, and ultimately failure.

Pointing out those alternate viewpoints and poking holes in the union's reasoning does not constitute "standing in the way of progress".

As I've stated numerous times on this board before, the union should be grateful for my contributions and insight as it points out the flaws in your arguments and keeps your negotiators from making points that are easily refuted.

And as we've discussed repeatedly in the past, both sides share the blame for this taking four years.

You lament that most of my posts were of the same theme, and "retreaded over and over". Since all of my posts were in response to the garbage being spewed on this forum, then it should be no surprise that there was little variation, since the union supporters on this site kept rehashing the same tired arguments again and again. My responses were simply the counterpoint and reflection of the pro-union positions on this site.

As for the service, I suspect that it isnt the only thing that has suffered because of this dispute. You want to lay the blame for service degradation at the company's doorstep, when we all know that the service suffered directly as a result of the union's slow down campaign. Looks like both sides share some blame for the service decline...

The union's strategy and tactics during these negotiations have also lowered the bar - forever I'm afraid - and done irreparable harm to the company and the family atmosphere that we once enjoyed. After this episode, I simply do not see Mr. Santulli carrying an extra 150 pilots when we are fat....furloughs will become the name of the game for the union represented segments.

 

[Fozzy]

The union's strategy and tactics during these negotiations have also lowered the bar (WHAT ABOUT MANAGEMENTS TACTICS?)- forever I'm afraid - and done irreparable harm to the company (LETS NOT MENTION MANAGEMENT, SCHEDULING OR O.S.) and the family atmosphere that we once enjoyed (READ A-TEAM, I AM GLAD WE ARE NOT SUCH A FAMILY, BUT A BUSINESS NOW. FAVORITISM MUST END) . After this episode, I simply do not (WE HAVE NOT SEEN MR SANTULLI EITHER) see Mr. Santulli carrying an extra 150 pilots when we are fat....(CAUTION FUD ALERT!!!)furloughs will become the name of the game for the union represented segments (WHICH IN 3 YEARS WILL BE ALL OF THE NETJETS FRACTIONAL FLYING).

Familyguy,
Go pound sand.

 

[ominbnd]

I work for another fractional so I've just been watching from the sidelines. Congrats guys!! I'm interested in hearing about the fine print though. How do the preliminary pay #'s compare with what you were asking?

 

[Hogprint]

Will someone go shake FamGuy awake in his rack....he's talking in his sleep again.

Sticking your head in the sand and refusing to acknowledge the other sides points will simply lead to stalemates, frustration, and ultimately failure.

That doesn't seem to be the case now does it?

Pointing out those alternate viewpoints and poking holes in the union's reasoning does not constitute "standing in the way of progress".

That is fine, but we both know (and others have pointed it out also) you and the other company men who have magically appeared on here this year have done your fair share of spreading the gospel according to Bridgeway. We read the company intranet also. Much like management reads our board, illegally I may add.

As I've stated numerous times on this board before, the union should be grateful for my contributions and insight as it points out the flaws in your arguments and keeps your negotiators from making points that are easily refuted.

Oh..I see. You secured this TA for us...thanks!

service suffered directly as a result of the union's slow down campaign

How many times do we have to stomp this fire out? Illegal. Didn't happen. See above post about retreaded themes.

The union's strategy and tactics during these negotiations have also lowered the bar - forever I'm afraid - and done irreparable harm to the company and the family atmosphere that we once enjoyed. After this episode, I simply do not see Mr. Santulli carrying an extra 150 pilots when we are fat....furloughs will become the name of the game for the union represented segments.

See Fozzy's post above.

 

[Cpt Splash]

Its going to be interesting to see Flexjet's response. Management does brag about our pilots being the most paid but our schedule doesn't come close to what Netjets gets. Also our current gateway system is really hurting us hiring more pilots. And if you mention the "U" word around the office your sure to get the little piece of paper in your mailbox telling you to come on in for a talk with the CP.

On a lighter note, congrats guys on the TA. I really hope this does set the standard in the industry

 

[Heavy Set]

You've already got a guy posting a thread saying he has interviews at CS and NJA that mentions the fact that upgrades will be slow and 5th yr. F.O. pay is "only 47k." Weren't they all on here telling us how hard it was for NJA to recruit ??

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=63886

This is good news - at least you are seeing progress and not continued stalling, etc. The big point is that recruiting for NJA should not be a problem if you pay competitive wages that provide newhires with wages exceeding starting wages elsewhere and reward loyalty (5 years out). Again, there are a lot of carriers hiring nowadays including JetBlue, AirTran, Continental, Fedex and UPS and high-time NJA pilots will be tempted to leave if conditions aren't competitive. This proposed TA is a step in the right direction. NJA should attract pilots vs. force existing pilots to look at alternatives and create an experience gap.

However, we still haven't heard much about Retro pay and the situation with NJI - let's not get blinded by this improved TA yet. The NJI issue is particularly tricky because the excuses for keeping NJI and NJA separate really don't hold much water given the NJE example - integration can be done and redundant infrastructure/overhead is a complete waste of cash... Santulli and Boisture should understand that. This is an emotional issue, but you simply can't let emotions cloud logical paths forward.

 

[psysicx]

What about work rules?

 

[IflyaDell]

For what it's worth from a CMH cube dweller, congrats on the new TA. Alot of us are looking forward to starting 06 as a unified team.

 

[fracpt]

is pay based on longevity vs going backwards like flops

does it slide you backward like I here flight options does?
5 yr fo once they make cap pay will it go to 90k or just to 1st year cap pay.???
What will it mean to ejm folks if anything. will they see a merger with them or flight options?

 

[hydrarkt]

As I've stated numerous times on this board before, the union should be grateful for my contributions and insight as it points out the flaws in your arguments and keeps your negotiators from making points that are easily refuted.

Wow, you are one arrogant fool!!!

 

[Grizz]

does it slide you backward like I here flight options does?
5 yr fo once they make cap pay will it go to 90k or just to 1st year cap pay.???
What will it mean to ejm folks if anything. will they see a merger with them or flight options?

You would go to 5th year Captains wages. No sliding backward.

The only time you go back to a "Year 1" situation is if you go to the GIV/GV or BBJ. Their payscale is based on time in that particular seat but it's higher and as such you'd never see a paycut going to the Gs or BBJ as a PIC.

 

[Heavy Set]

Can we clarify something - would the pay rates differ by aircraft type? For example, would a 5th year Captain on the X earn more than a 5th year Captain on the Ultra or Beechjet? Would a F2000 Captain with the same number of years as an Excel Captain earn the same amount under the proposed TA?

I would imagine that NJA management would want to keep the rates the same in order to reduce the urge to bid up for higher pay...

 

[jetwash]

It looks like a good deal, as a Flight Opts pilots if Nj bought us with that deal I would go up in pay almost $ 20,000 considering years of service.

I am sure your TA will help us in our union drive.


My card is already on its way to ASAP !!!!!!!!

Good Work

 

[You're right]

You would go to 5th year Captains wages. No sliding backward.

The only time you go back to a "Year 1" situation is if you go to the GIV/GV or BBJ. Their payscale is based on time in that particular seat but it's higher and as such you'd never see a paycut going to the Gs or BBJ as a PIC.

Griz, welcome back.

I guess all your comments moving forward are MEC sanctioned...right?

 

[Grizz]

Nope, just my own thoughts and information that I can share. For the record - no one asked me to stop posting. I just felt with the tone of posts on FlightInfo, it was best if I didn't get involved in that mix. Now that the TA is done, I'll post over here occasionally to answer questions and such.