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NetJets Strike Vote Fails

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Majik said:
Four reasons...
2002
2003
2004
2005
and counting...

You guys are so full of it...continuing to lay the blame for 4 years without a contract entirely at the company's feet. BOTH SIDES ARE TO BLAME - THE UNION INCLUDED.

I still havent seen a plausible argument against this since I posted this point over a month ago....

FamilyGuy said:
I agree Hogprint, it is negotiations. But that doesnt mean that both groups cant be civil to each other.

And I still dont buy this argument that the company has stalled on this for three years. If the old MEC was a bunch of company stooges that gave the company everything they wanted and 9/11 has just occurred - throwing thousands of pilots out on the street, why wouldnt the Company immediately press for a kick-ass agreement in favor of the company? They were holding all the cards....why not drive the dagger home and get everything they wanted (like the legacy carrier managements are currently doing)?

IMO, the union didnt want to do a deal during 2002-2003 simply because the economy sucked and they wouldnt be able to get what they wanted.....so they waste time going over every single article in the contract and bide their time until the economy turns around. Then they start to kick up a fuss, complaining as loudly and widely as they can about the injustice of waiting 1300 days.

Take your own advice Hogprint and read between the lines....the union was stringing this whole deal out waiting for better economic times to bargain....

Since I posted this, I've seen several pilots state that life is very good at NetJets EXCEPT for the pay. If pay was the only issue that everyone is concerned about then WHY DID THE UNION WASTE 2.5 YEARS RENEGOTIATING EVERY CLAUSE IN THE CONTRACT EXCEPT PAY?

The only answer that makes sense is they didnt want to do a deal during the poor economic conditions of 2002-2003.
 
H25b once again you don't work here we don't care what you think. How stupid are you that you post here. I sure wouldn't post on the airlines side of this site. I don't work for any of them. Why do you think we would even care what you think?
 
Some Dude said:
H25b once again you don't work here we don't care what you think. How stupid are you that you post here. I sure wouldn't post on the airlines side of this site. I don't work for any of them. Why do you think we would even care what you think?

In case you didn't notice this whole forum is composed entirely of everyone's collective 2 cents. It's a public forum genius. :rolleyes:

I must have hit your sore spot, the truth hurts I guess... :D
 
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Some Dude said:
Family Guy your opinion doesn't matter. You can't vote so we don't care what ya think.

Dont fool yourself into thinking that I post here in an attempt to change your mind....I know you're a lost cause and you would swear the sky was green simply because the company says that it is blue....there's no pleasing you.

I post here simply to provide a counterbalance to the mistruths and falsehoods about NetJets that a small group of militants seem intent on propagating.....
 
Family Guy, you can't even tell us what you do at NJA. Loser go back and clean the crapper I left a floating statue of RTS in there for ya.
 
Some Dude said:
H25b go back to school reject. You don't know how to spell "genius." You are a dork.

O.K. keep "kicking butt" and raising the bar for us all pal... :rolleyes: You got me on the spelling mistake and I corrected it just for you.
 
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Some Dude said:
Family Guy, you can't even tell us what you do at NJA. Loser go back and clean the crapper I left a floating statue of RTS in there for ya.

The only losers I know are those poor souls who hate their current jobs and employer but are too worthless to get a job anywhere else......
 
FamilyGuy said:
The only losers I know are those poor souls who hate their current jobs and employer but are too worthless to get a job anywhere else......
We do not hate our jobs... Just our worthless management. You know the one's who try to claim they can't make money in this business while paying pilots 1/2 NBAA wages.
 
This is where I really get confused. I really don't see why management's claim that they aren't making much money is all that unbelievable.

I know for a fact what it takes to keep a corporate department ranging in size from 1 to 25 aircraft running not attempting to make any profit paying their crews NBAA wages. Now you start trying to imagine what the operating costs of an organization the size of NetJets must be. The operational support structure that is required for dispatch, maint., cust. service., sales, etc... These are substantially greater than a Part 91 corporate flight department by an order of magnitude.

The start of the fractional business hid the flaw of the overall business model. In the early years the cash cow of the business was in the sale of shares. Now that they have to actually make money operating these planes the problems become apparent. Let's be real, the average business jet doesn't exactly yield the lowest cost/seat mile. Then you throw in the fact that these aircraft are essentially doubling NBAA utilization. I don't even want to think what the maintenance costs are trying to keep a Citation X in the air for a 1000 hrs. a year...

And yes, I realize that there are things like occupied hourly fees from the owners, monthly management fees, etc... The whole point of the fractional option for the customer standpoint is that it is in fact, A COST EFFECTIVE alternative. Everyone likes to say, "give us our pay raise, just pass along the cost to the customers..."

I'd like to see what the estimated increase in monthly fees and occupied hourly costs would be...

Let us say that over the entire NetJets pilot roster the average yearly income is $40,000/yr. and there are 2000 pilots (I have no idea how many there are, just for sake of arguement)... That means payroll (excluding ANY benefits) is $80 million. Lets say a new contract would yield you an average 35% raise. This would increase payroll by an additional $28 million/yr.
 
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gunfyter said:
We do not hate our jobs... Just our worthless management. You know the one's who try to claim they can't make money in this business while paying pilots 1/2 NBAA wages.

This has been beat to death sooo many times it's not funny. You cant compare yourselves to NBAA Corporate Flight Department wages unless you want to work the same schedules. NBAA wages are based on staffing ratios of 3 pilots per aircraft while we have 5 pilots per aircraft. I dont care what dollar amounts you talk about, if you divide any number by 5 you will get a smaller result than when you divide by 3.

For example - lets say the owners collectively pay $300,000 per year for pilot wages. If you have 3 pilots per aircraft that yields a wage of $100,000 per pilot. If you have 5 pilots per aircraft you have a wage of $60,000 per pilot. What is so hard to understand about this?

It seems people still want to cherry pick the best attributes of the unionized airlines and the non-unionized NBAA jobs, all the while saying "we dont care if the company makes money - that's a problem for management to figure out"... little has changed since I posted this almost a month ago:

FamilyGuy said:
Vmax - you really should make up your mind as to what group you want to compare yourselves to.....

Is it going to be the unionized airlines or the non-unionized NBAA jobs?

It appears that you want to cherry pick the best attributes of both areas and also retain your current advantages that may not be present in the other areas.....

Bottom line is that the company has an offer of 23-40% raises on the table for the pilots, which will make them the highest paid pilots in the FRACTIONAL industry....which is what is really important.

If you prefer the perks of the airline world or the NBAA Corporate Flight Dept world then you should go there.....but dont fool yourself into thinking you can have the best of both worlds here.
 
If RTS is such a great CEO than why can't he pick a management team that is successfull? We have had about 6 different management teams since I have been here. RTS is the worst leader I have ever seen in the business world. Even Omaha was shocked.
 
h25b said:
Let us say that over the entire NetJets pilot roster the average yearly income is $40,000/yr. and there are 2000 pilots (I have no idea how many there are, just for sake of arguement)... That means payroll (excluding ANY benefits) is $80 million. Lets say a new contract would yield you an average 35% raise. This would increase payroll by an additional $28 million/yr.

h25b - As Quoted in the Columbus Dispatch on April 30, 2005:

"On average, union officials have said, NetJets pilots make from $50,000 to $72,000 a year."
 
Some Dude said:
If RTS is such a great CEO than why can't he pick a management team that is successfull? We have had about 6 different management teams since I have been here. RTS is the worst leader I have ever seen in the business world. Even Omaha was shocked.

That's the point, maybe making money with the NetJets business model is as hard as they claim, even WITHOUT giving you your raise...

FamilyGuy said:
h25b - As Quoted in the Columbus Dispatch on April 30, 2005:

"On average, union officials have said, NetJets pilots make from $50,000 to $72,000 a year."

I know, I was intentionally being conservative with my figures...
 

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