NetJets Integration

[jppt2000]

You have to remember that the Union's position in a representational dispute (single carrier) is that we are or should have been the bargaining agent for the whole (single) carrier. Additionally, at the end of the process, we will all be under one roof (Union). I do not see anything wrong with involving the NJI pilots in the process. Of course, the Union has a Duty to represent its membership and will not place greater weight on future members than it does on current ones.

Sincerely,
Brian Ward

Brian,
I too, have no issues with the NJI folks and the integration.
We all work for the same company and from what I understand our futures and quality of living will be a little more secure with this integration.
I was just wondering what kind of involvement in the integration process is wolfpack talking about?
Isn't the process pretty much defined?
BTW, as it has been said before, the sign of a fair seniority integration is where everyone feels equally screwed.

 

[Mountain Troll]

Well, once again the armchair lawyers and wannabe business experts release the steam from their blowhole. Cast, what wonderful prose. Your talents for verbiage are wasted here. However, you need to get to the point clearly or actually say something instead of being so impressed with your ability to compose. BW keep the faith. To Monkeygomery and Williams.... "may your armpits be infested with the fleas of a thousand camels".

There are issues not covered in the LOA. How about nobody at NJI wants per-diem. There are others as well, why don't you ask any NJI guy. Let's not blast it all out here.

But, best of all. There is legal case precedent about this very type of integration. With lawyers and judges too. Anybody ever research or remember history? The NJI guys have more legal protection than they know due this case. The lower 47, well it isn't as bleak as it seems. Things such as expected carreer path are clearly defined.

BO, RTS, NJASAP and NJI Management don't want you folks to know about this because they want you to think they are in control and you have no rights. Well, the case file, and original law firms name have been given to a few NJI pilots (not my younger Brother) so that in the final hours, the legal fee spending will increase and management will perspire. You all have rights, NJA and NJI, why are you listening to someone that is diverting your attention while trying to take something from you? Why do think there is NO written communication directly to you about this subject? Only phone calls and personal visits. See, no proof!

Good Luck Gents

 

[Cavpilot]

But, best of all. There is legal case precedent about this very type of integration. With lawyers and judges too. Anybody ever research or remember history? The NJI guys have more legal protection than they know due this case. The lower 47, well it isn't as bleak as it seems. Things such as expected carreer path are clearly defined.

This is interesting. An NJI guy who is advocating something other than DOH integration. The "expected career path" argument worked out real well for the AAA guys didn't it.

 

[BeeDubya]

Brian,
I was just wondering what kind of involvement in the integration process is wolfpack talking about?
Isn't the process pretty much defined?

Many of the contractual-type issues are already defiend through the LOA negotiation process. However, there are other issues that are not. For example, how implementation occurs, how the Union can reach out to the NJI pilots, how the NJI pilots will become involved within Union affairs, etc. There may be more as we move through the process.

 

[BeeDubya]

There are issues not covered in the LOA. How about nobody at NJI wants per-diem.

Per diem is covered by the LOA (vis-a-vis the 2007 Basic Agreement referenced in Subpart B, paragraph 4).

 

[ozpilot]

BeeDubya,

The reason the NJI guys don't want per diem is they currently can charge all their meals on their company credit cards.

Thats why you'll see NJA pilots eating their crew food in their hotel rooms at HPN while the NJI crews are eating at PF Changs across the street. I don't blame them for being upset.

If they take the per diem they wont be able to do that and they will end up balancing crew food on their laps like the rest of us.

 

[gutshotdraw]

And our average daily meal expense per crewmember is STILL below $45. That's why NJI management keeps us on receipts. It's cheaper.

Like Annie said: "You can look it up."

 

[BeeDubya]

BeeDubya,

The reason the NJI guys don't want per diem is they currently can charge all their meals on their company credit cards.

Thats why you'll see NJA pilots eating their crew food in their hotel rooms at HPN while the NJI crews are eating at PF Changs across the street. I don't blame them for being upset.

If they take the per diem they wont be able to do that and they will end up balancing crew food on their laps like the rest of us.

I understand the differences. My only point was to explain what has been negotiated.

 

[jppt2000]

Many of the contractual-type issues are already defiend through the LOA negotiation process. However, there are other issues that are not. For example, how implementation occurs, how the Union can reach out to the NJI pilots, how the NJI pilots will become involved within Union affairs, etc. There may be more as we move through the process.

Thanks Brian for answering my questions , many folks I've flown with have similar questions.
I hope my questions/rhetoric didn't come off as bitter or angry.
As usual Brian,
thanks for the excellence and perseverance you exhibit daily.

 

[BeeDubya]

Thanks Brian for answering my questions , many folks I've flown with have similar questions.
I hope my questions/rhetoric didn't come off as bitter or angry.
As usual Brian,
thanks for the excellence and perseverance you exhibit daily.

jppt,

You didn't come off as bitter or angry.... of course, message board text is a bad conduit for emotion or subtext...

As I encounter pilots in recurrent or on the road, I also find many, many questions. Some forums seem to be more effective than others at "getting the word out," so I'm trying to hit as many as possible and to add more to the list.

I encourage you or anyone you fly with to contact me or the Integration Team, with any questions you have. Common questions get added to the FAQ list and sent in blast emails. I have no secrets about this process and welcome the opportunity to help others understand.

Thanks for the kind words.
Brian

 

[CA1900]

And our average daily meal expense per crewmember is STILL below $45.

Exactly.

Frankly, I like having the option. If I want to go across the street in HPN for some hot food, I do it without a second thought. If I'm dog tired and would rather eat a sandwich in the room and crash, I'll do that hang onto the cash for another day's beer consumption.

Internationally, we can do per-diem or go on NJI-style meal receipts.

 

[NJAPLT]

I will attempt to make my feeling known about this integration from my view (I'm just a member, have no position of authority in the union.)

There are issues not covered in the LOA. How about nobody at NJI wants per-diem. There are others as well, why don't you ask any NJI guy. Let's not blast it all out here.
My take is that any issue not covered in the LOA will simply follow the current contract. The NJI pilots cannot negotiate something away that is in the contract for all NetJets pilots. If the company wants to give the ability to go on receipt domestically (or any other "NJI Perk" to them after the integration date) I am fine with it as long as it applies to all pilots, NJA, NJI, NJLA.

The simple rule is what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Although I agree integration is a good thing in the long run, I am displeased about some aspects of the integration LOA, most specifically the idea that a less senior NJI "A" teamer who negotiated pay greater than the union rates will get to not only keep the better pay, but they will also get the normal step increases, insuring that a junior pilot will always get paid more than a more senior pilot. I think the fair thing to do would have been to pay everyone senior to the "A team pilot" the same increase.

Another issue is the you have to be a NJI G4 captain before going to the G5. Again, smacks of "A Team" status to me.

Of course what I wish or think or consider unfair has no bearing on what will actually occur during this integration.

I have no issues in giving pilots the "NJI Perks", such as fly to work from wherever rather than a base, or go home using the company card vs the NJA process of using your own card, as long as all NetJets pilots get those same benefits.

Simply put: The "A Team" days are over. If the company grants benefits to NJI that they don't grant NJA (after integration, or are not specifically spelled out in the LOA) then I expect our union to file a grievance to get those same benefits to the entire NJ pilot population. After integration we should be one group for all aspects, under one contract. The next contract should not even consider what operation the pilots came from before, we should just be considered NetJets pilots, and the LOA special rules should be eliminated at that time.

But, best of all. There is legal case precedent about this very type of integration. With lawyers and judges too. Anybody ever research or remember history? The NJI guys have more legal protection than they know due this case. The lower 47, well it isn't as bleak as it seems. Things such as expected carreer path are clearly defined.

I was told during my interview that I would be a captain at NJA in less than a year, and I would get bypass pay in 6 months. I have not saw either yet. Can I win a lawsuit against the union, the company, RTS?

NJI has their aircraft limited before the integration, so I expected some G5's would come that would have to be flown by NJA pilots. Can I sue the NJI pilots because now I can't expect to be captain the G5 without being captain in the G4 first?

BO, RTS, NJASAP and NJI Management don't want you folks to know about this because they want you to think they are in control and you have no rights. Well, the case file, and original law firms name have been given to a few NJI pilots (not my younger Brother) so that in the final hours, the legal fee spending will increase and management will perspire. You all have rights, NJA and NJI, why are you listening to someone that is diverting your attention while trying to take something from you? Why do think there is NO written communication directly to you about this subject? Only phone calls and personal visits. See, no proof!

Good Luck Gents

I think overall this integration will benefit both of our groups. That being said, although I don't believe that the NJI pilots have either a lawsuit or case before RLA, I will not undermine anyone's right to investigate it for themselves.

I think a lawsuit to stop the integration will just waste everyone's time however, and would be harmful to both groups. Hopefully anyone considering a lawsuit would think about the damage that will occur to NJA, NJI, the NJASAP, and themselves first by tying this up in the legal system.

 

[Diesel]

Before we say its an integration team, it isn't really one when the NJI pilots don't have a voice.

I'll say it again, and having dinner with 5 NJA to NJI pilots tonight, people don't know what its like till you've done both.

 

[CastofThousands]

Were the pilots at NJI approached to join the union? pre 2005, 2006?

Stick with me here, you essentially want representation without paying any dues?


I have to agree with Cast, it seems he's warning us the house is on fire and we're occupied with leveling the pictures on the walls.
We all need to close ranks and eat the sandwich made for ALL of us to enjoy (tic).

Yes, sir.

Winner winner, chicken dinner (as long as the house is private aviation or aviation in general).

As for the rest of the drama here - I'm out of the therapy biz. Just focusing on solutions. Look past the trees to see the forest - 2010 isn't far away and private aviation isn't what it was in 2007 and won't be for a while.

Courtesy message has been delivered. Use it for what it's worth.

.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Stick with me here, you essentially want representation without paying any dues?

I never said anything of the such. As this integration moves forward, NJASAP/NJI pilots will benefit greatly by engaging each other sooner than later. The day the light switch is turned on should be a non-event if the union engages us, and we engage the union.

As I said before, I have years of experience in union leadership... there are things that need to be addressed internally before we join NJASAP. Thats all I'm trying to say here.