NetJets Integration

[FLYLOW22]

Courtesy message has been delivered. Use it for what it's worth.

Management will do whatever management will do without your input, rest assured.

The plan is already set. They are executing it. Your input, if given, will be used as a disclaimer just to say they asked.

IBB. It Benefits Bill.

 

[squonk]

Courtesy message has been delivered. Use it for what it's worth.

It's about time.

Thank you if you were the driving force behind it. All I'm asking is to at least halfway be kept in the loop and not swatting skeeters in the dark.

 

[CastofThousands]

It's about time.

Thank you if you were the driving force behind it. All I'm asking is to at least halfway be kept in the loop and not swatting skeeters in the dark.

Rest assured there are some pilot advocates deeply involved - looking at every possible way to keep every pilot/family working. As yesterday's Chairman's message stated "my goal is to continue to avoid downsizing, although I can make no long-term promises." I have seen this first hand and the man is very sincere, more than most will ever know and that I think everyone should appreciate and respect.

Recognizing there are always a few (very) righteous and perfect individuals who's (FI) omnipotence raises above all others who post here; common sense says if there was a pilot hit squad it would already be in action. Bottom line: there are people posting here who have literally been chased of the union message board by the masses - nonetheless they yell louder simply because they want to be heard. Such is life, they are embedded in every component/career of/in society and while some like to check out the insanity and rate it, most roll on by.

Simply stated we want to preserve and create the best careers in the industry. Clearly adjustments need to be made as this will be a prolonged downturn.

What too many forget is that with furloughs come downgrades and displacements. Downsizing should be avoided if at all possible while we proceed in a respectable, compassionate, and dignified manner for all employees/pilots/families. It should be done without concessions and in a way where we can all manage our workdays/hours/expenses at a level that helps keep everyone employed/working.

We need to look at targeting aggregate workdays/hours - not head count. Knowing the pilot group the way I do, I would submit most would rather work a few less days than see a peer and fellow pilot have to go through a furlough. But, that will be up to the pilot group. As an example, having every pilot working the 7&7 and trading extended days for comp days would significantly reduce the excess workdays and number of pilots that could/would traditionally be captured in a furlough. Again, we are dealing with 2010 now, 2009 is already behind us.

FWIW,

 

[bluepost]

I would fully expect paid early retirement be offered before a reduction in 18/15 day schedules. For every 5 guys on the 18 day the company saves 1 employee, 50k+ in training costs and another 20k in benefits. Offering a 50k retirement option with full or assisted medical for a period of time would save more money in the long run. The offers could be fleet specific to avoid training costs, and further rightsize crew numbers.

Also I would fully expect to see the BBJs go away, or show how much profit they are generating.

 

[CastofThousands]

I would fully expect paid early retirement be offered before a reduction in 18/15 day schedules. For every 5 guys on the 18 day the company saves 1 employee, 50k+ in training costs and another 20k in benefits. Offering a 50k retirement option with full or assisted medical for a period of time would save more money in the long run. The offers could be fleet specific to avoid training costs, and further rightsize crew numbers.

Also I would fully expect to see the BBJs go away, or show how much profit they are generating.

I believe a combination of [early] retirement, short and long term leaves of absence, as well as other workday reduction options (7&7<18, additional [unpaid] vacation, etc) has a lot of merit. I would expect the long(er) term fleet plan (based on a/c market values and buyers) to continue to be evaluated as well.

My educated guess is this will be a conversation for 2009.

Best,

 

[x402]

Having this discussion on FI is INSANE. Please take it back to the company board.

 

[bluepost]

Well just tell Cast to join us over there :bomb: , I am sure he has the address....

But for the record I don't feel like the NJA group is in the mood for any more negotiations.

The fact is that Cast is trying to plant a seed here revealing what I would think would be confidential information. I don't think that seed will get much watering here.

Your right x402, I made a mistake. This discussion does not belong over here. Our time at war was still longer than our current time of peace. Many of us are still picking pieces of the failed gateway agreement out of our teeth.

 

[x402]

Well just tell Cast to join us over there :bomb: , I am sure he has the address....

But for the record I don't feel like the NJA group is in the mood for any more negotiations.

Exactly

Mgt can ICOM us anytime they want.

 

[CastofThousands]

Without a doubt. That said, sometimes professional courtesy trumps.

We will certainly continue the meat of Crew Integration (NJIAX), Operational Excellence (OpX), and Preventive Furlough Measures discussions elsewhere. 2009 is about T'ing things up for 2010.

We are all big boys and girls. It's a small industry. When dealing with issues at the highest levels I think we can handle FI - it's not as though this stuff is new in aviation and the realities of the current financial system and economy aren't already known.

Respectfully,

 

[bluepost]

Management had no problem enduring huge "losses" during the war over nothing more than spite....seems to me a little red ink to save some jobs wouldn't be too much to ask. I don't see where we have lost any money.....yet.

 

[CastofThousands]

Exactly

Mgt can ICOM us anytime they want.

I am sure we'll be calling this "The Summer of ICOMs - but now you know the framework. More importantly, an ICOM isn't a conversation. Out of respect, sometimes the conversation is more effective.

I go a little out of school from time to time. Life goes on, I can get my hands slapped (from all sides) and we'll move on.

 

[CastofThousands]

Management had no problem enduring huge "losses" during the war over nothing more than spite....seems to me a little red ink to save some jobs wouldn't be too much to ask. I don't see where we have lost any money.....yet.

Read the BRK report... Not insignificant and there is other public information indicating the significance. 2005 was nothing compared to 2009 and what may follow. I won't/can't go there.

Nonetheless, I have no doubt we will exit this downturn stronger.

In context, when we exit, as indicated in my first post on this thread - the landscape will be different. The competition NetJets has in the future will be different than what we had in 2008. A lot of the industry segment "evolution" has already begun.

 

[x402]

I am sure we'll be calling this "The Summer of ICOMs - but now you know the framework. More importantly, an ICOM isn't a conversation. Out of respect, sometimes the conversation is more effective.

I go a little out of school from time to time. Life goes on, I can get my hands slapped (from all sides) and we'll move on.

We have an elected leadership to converse with, I'm just a simple line pilot.
I'm sure you have their numbers.
Respectfully

 

[CastofThousands]

We have an elected leadership to converse with, I'm just a simple line pilot.
I'm sure you have their numbers.
Respectfully

Yes. Very good people.

 

[RNObased]

We need to look at targeting aggregate workdays/hours - not head count. Knowing the pilot group the way I do, I would submit most would rather work a few less days than see a peer and fellow pilot have to go through a furlough. But, that will be up to the pilot group. As an example, having every pilot working the 7&7 and trading extended days for comp days would significantly reduce the excess workdays and number of pilots that could/would traditionally be captured in a furlough. Again, we are dealing with 2010 now, 2009 is already behind us.

FWIW,

So let me get this straight, someone in CMH decides to hire pilots when most of the pilots on the line were questioning this, and now we get to take one for the team. Wow.

Reponsibility, accountability, maybe thinking before acting.... Words that many in CMH fail to understand. I'm not talking about RTS, I'm talking about the people that fail to think before they act in CMH and then run around trying to cover for themselves. Pathetic.