NetJets Integration

[BeeDubya]

Great Brian. With all due respect, no negotiations vs no input argument is political crap. ....

My point is that there is still room for input, even though there will not be re-negotiations. Not political crap, just the facts. That input will not change contractual language, but can effect other aspects of integration.

The LOA you refer to was signed on 12-07-07, after the IBB vote. What choice did the membership have in that one? You're correct, it was signed on 12-7-07, the same day the 2007 Basic Agreement was signed (see the signature line after Section 30.3) Besides, all that section has to do with is displacement of an NJI pilot's existing base. That includes many bases currently not on our list. Do you deny their basing is more inclusive than ours? An NJI guy I know quite well tells me they can start and finish a tour anywhere they like as well, within reason. No dummy ticket crap. But no big deal there, right?

Here is the problem... you do not understand their "system" nor what is protected. Please call me or email me so we can discuss this.

Now their one source of communication is gone (GPAC), and the only news subsequant to that comes out on a public forum after months have gone by. We all need better communication-now.

GPAC was never NJI pilots' sole source for communication. They have always been welcome to talk directly with the Integration team, and email addresses and phone number have been distributed as widely as possible. As I stated initial, we had planned to work through GPAC. When they dissolved, we had to form a new plan. It's been about 6 weeks (they announced dissolution around Jan 15). I had planned on announcing the new working group and its members simultaneously, and not in this forum. Because the question was asked here, I wanted to ensure that the NJI pilots here knew they had not been forgotten and that a new plan was developing. You may not like the speed at which this is happening, but I'd rather be deliberate, correct and slow than knee-jerk in reacting.

I've read the FAQs on the joint integration section, and frankly, it's quite generic.

The FAQs answer questions that I am frequently asked. I recently added several more in response to questions I've been receiving. Tell me what you want to know, and I'd be more than happy to answer the question.

When do we get to speak together? The feds and RLA can't say squat if we have a separate web site we can discuss issues freely on. They can if Union dues are paying for it (or if it's seen as a benefit of membership).

I have no agenda here, other than a very large interest in fostering good will towards two groups that don't need an "Easty/Westy" situation. Mine, too. Communication beween the two has always been poor, and needs to improve-now.

Tell me specifically what needs to improve that can be done within the confines of the law. Email me, or PM me or call me. You may not know all the things that are going on in the background, and again, I'd be more than happy to discuss them.

As far as NJI and upgrades, I'll be cautiously optimistic, but I find it real hard to believe a zebra as firmly entrenched as RTS can or would change his stripes so easily. And I mean no disrespect in that statement.

I don't know what you think NJI is trying to do that is so suspicious with upgrades. Read the LOAs... they are designed to create gross over-staffing if the company tries anything "funny."

Fraternally,
Brian

 

[imacdog]

B, you properly brought to our attention that:

Why do you feel alone, isolated or left out? Did you not have a chance to vote on IBB? These issues were voted on by the membership and ratified. And the basing provisions are not unlimited. Read the LOA (01-013, Subpart B, paragraph (4)(g)) or give me a call if you want to know about basing.

Do you really think many people read anything in the IBB other than Sections 13 or 27?

I'm sure some did and our voices were raised in objections but we were quickly shot down as being anti-new hire and uncaring.

Well, you are certainly correct, we got what we voted for and deserve every bit of it.

I think you give our pilots too little credit. Remember when you were posting that 40% of our pilots were going to be forced onto the 18-day schedule? Sounds like you didn't do that great of a job of reading yourself.

 

[DO-82 driver]

I----

I simply do not recall the statement you claim I made comcerning the 40% and 18 day schedule. Its was well over a year ago and my memory has failed me but, based on the info I had at the time, it certainly sounds like something I would have said.

BTW, the Wilson Survey conducted post IBB showed that those on the 18 day schedule were more likely to be on it because they needed to and not because they liked the schedule. Many of those on the 18 day schedule are not particularly happy with it. Please reference LMRC meeting of Oct 2008 in CMH.

The 18 day schedule is certainly not the prize or "senior guys" schedule.

There are still many areas of the IBB that I still feel are faulty and there are areas that turned out to be better then what I expected.


WE all got very handsome pay raises and some of the new hires got relief in not having to drive hours to one of the stupid 5 bases that were working out so well for the Company, per the Union and Companies admission. (Please insert sarcasm for the above)

I hope economic conditions will not mandate that we give any of that money (or benefits) back.

Please keep in mind therre still isn't equality in the areas of basing for those hired post 2205 and those hired prior. Now we will have a thrid group of pilots who have yet another basing system.

In effect, there will be a 3 tier system regarding basing here at NJ.

However, to quote a great man..."It is what it is". I can certainly live with it quite well. Voting "NO" wasn't for me but more for those behind me. My attitude has changed considerable since then.

 

[gutshotdraw]

A couple of points:

Pervis, NJI pilots can ask to begin or end a tour in a city other than domicile but have to pay any differential between that ticket and a ticket to/from their normal city.

All upgrades at NJI have stopped including an upgrade class that was cancelled the week before they departed for recurrent in Savannah. There are presently 47 NJI F/O's (they were calling themselves the "Lower 48" until one quit). The decision to stop upgrades is reportedly economic, not political and relates strictly to the fact that the overall fleet is not growing. As 450's and 550's arrive this year (3-4 aircraft depending on who you ask), classic IV's will be sold or parked unless an uptick in demand keeps the additional airframes flying. If that occurs, a few more F/O's will upgrade into the IV and more NJA IV bids will become available in keeping with the LOA's currently in place. Obviously, not all will make it before the final notice is signed.

Someone posted that NJI always got the better end of the stick. In some areas, that is true. In other areas (specifically: no hourly overtime, no holiday pay, no banked sick days, a poorly interpreted short-term disability policy, to name a few) NJI has not done as well. Like anything else, it has been a trade-off.

The long-term goal of both 1108 and now NJASAP has been to erase any and all differences between the pilot groups. That process is underway but will take years, not months.

I feel badly for the NJI F/O's that were told by management, ad nauseum, that they would upgrade within the fleet without any union impact. Clearly, this was a mistake on management's part. By the same token, anyone hired since November of 2005 knew, or should have known, that the union issue was in play and could impact their career progression. Aside from this issue, I'm pretty much ready to get it done and let the chips fall where they may.

Like Jimmy Dugan said, if it was easy, everybody would do it.

 

[Gruman Fan]

I need to restate my feelings. I am in no way implying that NJASAP or management would not be fair to NJI pilots. I just think when its all said and done, looking back we all will benefit by having NJI LINE PILOTS (not management pilots, group leaders) at the meetings that will take place in discussing the "issues" that will be address.

I want my perspective and my views directly represented during this integration. NJA pilots have that venue in their union... NJI pilots have no one. Thats all I'm saying here. I too look forward to this entire thing being behind us.

I know one the GPAC guys personally and as I said before, he had all the best intentions for us but got hosed by a small group of our own. So in essence we have no one to blame but ourselves... but the union can really come out shinning and get 325 new members feeling good about this process if they indentify a few us who are willing to step up and involve them in the process.

GF

 

[fischman]

However, to quote a great man..."It is what it is".

He isn't a great man. He's just a man.

I, on the other hand, am a great man.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I'm still blinded by your awesomeness Fisch......oops, wrong thread.

 

[CA1900]

I'm still blinded by your awesomeness Fisch......oops, wrong thread.

I still haven't met him face-to-face, but I imagine he looks a lot like William Shatner.

 

[imacdog]

Happy to help refresh your memory.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1429757#post1429757

 

[Diesel]

There are presently 47 NJI F/O's (they were calling themselves the "Lower 48" until one quit).

Thats friggin great. Never heard that.

I truely believe that without open communication in the form of a messageboard between NJA pilots and NJI pilots would do a lot of good and really open the lines of communication.

Sadly though the lawyers and the political process delays this.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Imac,

Very good, I appreciate the reminder.

I'd be curious what the ratios are currently with our scheduling. I'm sure that more than 50% are on the 7&7. I'd guess 20% are on the 18 day.

Isn't the 18 day schedule still the schedule people can be forced onto if they cannot hold a 7&7 line and if they don't choose the 15 day? I haven't heard of anyone thus far being forced onto the 18 day, maybe a few.

Time to break out the CBA....

 

[fischman]

Imac,

Very good, I appreciate the reminder.

I'd be curious what the ratios are currently with our scheduling. I'm sure that more than 50% are on the 7&7. I'd guess 20% are on the 18 day.

Isn't the 18 day schedule still the schedule people can be forced onto if they cannot hold a 7&7 line and if they don't choose the 15 day? I haven't heard of anyone thus far being forced onto the 18 day, maybe a few.

Time to break out the CBA....

Ya got it backwards. The company may junior man people to the 15 day if they choose. To my knowledge I don't think that has happened. The 15 day is a senior schedule.

 

[DO-82 driver]

...and once again you show your greatness.....

It transends threads!!!!!

 

[BeeDubya]

Ya got it backwards. The company may junior man people to the 15 day if they choose. To my knowledge I don't think that has happened. The 15 day is a senior schedule.

Each bid period there have been small numbers of pilots junior-assigned the 15-day schedule. I want to say most bid periods that number is in the single-digits. The company has had the ability to junior-assign far more but has elected not to (in some cases, the company has elected to junior-assign less than 10% of those eligible).

SDPs can be junior-assigned the 18-day schedule, but I do not know if that has happened yet. If it has, the numbers again would be very small.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I know one the GPAC guys personally and as I said before, he had all the best intentions

Actually I was only days away from a PayPal account and robbing you b*stards for all your worth.

My 401K took a hit, I needed a backup plan.

 

[CastofThousands]

All,

Once again the landscape has changed, and any aura of invincibility will be dissolved one way or another. The financial crisis is challenging every aspect of the global and US economy, aviation industry, and private aviation itself. Enterprise must adjust or fail. Anyone who believes the financial crisis we encountered in 4Q 2008 which will persist through 2009 is a speed bump, is naïve at best. The economy pre-2009 is not the economy many pilots will see for the remainder of their careers; hence the landscape has changed. The “monopoly money” (financial leveraging) and climbing asset values that were fueling much of the global and US economies for nearly two decades (with a few hiccups) is officially a thing of the past. Quite simply, balance sheets and asset values have been destroyed and a lot of the discretionary/disposable high level incomes/cash flows have evaporated.

It doesn’t take a genius to understand private aviation is under attack; its many operations, services, suppliers, and manufactures are being hard hit because its purchasers and users are looked at as political/populist red meat. Moreover, for those that still have the resources - extravagance and opulence are officially in bad taste. In many ways it’s unfortunate because for those who know, the private aviation industry is as American as any industry, and tens of thousands of highly sought after and skilled jobs are being destroyed. The industry has suffered a 30-40% reduction in flight demand. Only the strongest will survive this steep and prolonged downturn. Speaking directly, maintaining the status quo is assured failure for every operator, service provider, supplier, and manufacture. It will require sustained cash flows (brand loyalty), cost containment initiatives, innovative business practices, and workforce cohesion to endure what's ahead. We can only hope the end of the beginning is near - it's certainly far from the beginning of the end.

The Integration is far more than NJA/NJI/NJLA crew integration – it’s about Operational Excellence and ensuring a safe, lean, and viable business model/plan that will justify continued support and investment from any ownership. Now more than ever before business ownership across the board/industry are asking three simple questions: (1) Do we have the cash reserves to continue to invest (assuming they have the money to invest) in this (choose any business) enterprise with ANY REALISTIC CHANCE of a future ROI? (2) Does the business have the cash flows (fixed/variable) vs costs (fixed/variable) to endure this prolonged downturn, even if ownership rights down the assets and cleans up the balance sheet? (3) Will there be a market and what’s the “right size” of the business for the future market/market share? 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006?

With all due respect, if anyone believes NetJets (or any other company for that matter) has an ounce of fat to spare for too long – they are disconnected from the brutal realities. Every company is fighting to retain existing jobs (NetJets has done exceptionally well), forget about new job creation – for now. While the market is shrinking, what’s important is the gain in existing/available market share. It's more competitive (pricing and service) than ever. In essence gaining in market share as the market shrinks. This requires business adjustments and a cohesive, dedicated, and enthusiastic/optimistic workforce. Economy of scale has pros and cons; the purchasing power can be significant. But, to change course is much more than turning an aircraft carrier, it’s like turning a fleet. We have many “ships” at NetJets, but with challenges come opportunities.

Integration is about more than crew integration, it’s about Operational Excellence for the future; organizational best practices, modern change process, agility, efficiency, creating operating leverage, and professional courtesy. The sooner we modernize and streamline the easier it will be to turn the fleet. This was not necessarily the plan going into 2008 or 2009, but we are presented with this difficult and necessary opportunity exiting 2009. The sooner the comprehensive plan is developed and communicated, and embraced which is the focus for the 2009, the sooner it will generate the results everyone seeks.

An unfortunately reality, nonetheless our reality; look beyond the past and focus on the future. A lot of great people are investing themselves into identifying all the opportunities and risk. They will engage the organization (bottom up) to ensure as we evolve over the next few years it's approached from the customer/crew interface backwards.

As for 2005 bargaining, LMRP, IBB, Integration – simply fortuitous… Now it's what's done with all the progress that really counts.

Respectfully,

 

[Diesel]

wow FI has officially become the soundboard for management.

Respectfully,

PS Look for next weeks message on lowering expectations for the future.

All,

Once again the landscape has changed, and any aura of invincibility will be dissolved one way or another. The financial crisis is challenging every aspect of the global and US economy, aviation industry, and private aviation itself. Enterprise must adjust or fail. Anyone who believes the financial crisis we encountered in 4Q 2008 which will persist through 2009 is a speed bump, is naïve at best. The economy pre-2009 is not the economy many pilots will see for the remainder of their careers; hence the landscape has changed. The “monopoly money” (financial leveraging) and climbing asset values that were fueling much of the global and US economies for nearly two decades (with a few hiccups) is officially a thing of the past. Quite simply, balance sheets and asset values have been destroyed and a lot of the discretionary/disposable high level incomes/cash flows have evaporated.

It doesn’t take a genius to understand private aviation is under attack; its many operations, services, suppliers, and manufactures are being hard hit because its purchasers and users are looked at as political/populist red meat. Moreover, for those that still have the resources - extravagance and opulence are officially in bad taste. In many ways it’s unfortunate because for those who know, the private aviation industry is as American as any industry, and tens of thousands of highly sought after and skilled jobs are being destroyed. The industry has suffered a 30-40% reduction in flight demand. Only the strongest will survive this steep and prolonged downturn. Speaking directly, maintaining the status quo is assured failure for every operator, service provider, supplier, and manufacture. It will require sustained cash flows (brand loyalty), cost containment initiatives, innovative business practices, and workforce cohesion to endure what's ahead. We can only hope the end of the beginning is near - it's certainly far from the beginning of the end.

The Integration is far more than NJA/NJI/NJLA crew integration – it’s about Operational Excellence and ensuring a safe, lean, and viable business model/plan that will justify continued support and investment from any ownership. Now more than ever before business ownership across the board/industry are asking three simple questions: (1) Do we have the cash reserves to continue to invest (assuming they have the money to invest) in this (choose any business) enterprise with ANY REALISTIC CHANCE of a future ROI? (2) Does the business have the cash flows (fixed/variable) vs costs (fixed/variable) to endure this prolonged downturn, even if ownership rights down the assets and cleans up the balance sheet? (3) Will there be a market and what’s the “right size” of the business for the future market/market share? 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006?

With all due respect, if anyone believes NetJets (or any other company for that matter) has an ounce of fat to spare for too long – they are disconnected from the brutal realities. Every company is fighting to retain existing jobs (NetJets has done exceptionally well), forget about new job creation – for now. While the market is shrinking, what’s important is the gain in existing/available market share. It's more competitive (pricing and service) than ever. In essence gaining in market share as the market shrinks. This requires business adjustments and a cohesive, dedicated, and enthusiastic/optimistic workforce. Economy of scale has pros and cons; the purchasing power can be significant. But, to change course is much more than turning an aircraft carrier, it’s like turning a fleet. We have many “ships” at NetJets, but with challenges come opportunities.

Integration is about more than crew integration, it’s about Operational Excellence for the future; organizational best practices, modern change process, agility, efficiency, creating operating leverage, and professional courtesy. The sooner we modernize and streamline the easier it will be to turn the fleet. This was not necessarily the plan going into 2008 or 2009, but we are presented with this difficult and necessary opportunity exiting 2009. The sooner the comprehensive plan is developed and communicated, and embraced which is the focus for the 2009, the sooner it will generate the results everyone seeks.

An unfortunately reality, nonetheless our reality; look beyond the past and focus on the future. A lot of great people are investing themselves into identifying all the opportunities and risk. They will engage the organization (bottom up) to ensure as we evolve over the next few years it's approached from the customer/crew interface backwards.

As for 2005 bargaining, LMRP, IBB, Integration – simply fortuitous… Now it's what's done with all the progress that really counts.

Respectfully,

 

[Waldom]

I believe that's called reality, Diesel. It is what both management and the union must deal with and the failure of either party to grasp this means the eventual failure of both.

 

[Diesel]

I believe it called furthering your own agenda on a anonymous messageboard for whatever reason.

 

[Pervis]

As usual, lots of words with little said. Some things never change, except the master we serve.