NetJets Integration

[CastofThousands]

You know Cast, I'm all for keeping pilots flying as much as possible, all of us are and painting us in any other light is wrong.

However my issue is with CMH, and the people that kept hiring and hiring, when it was apparant to most that we weren't flying as much as normal. If a pilot screws up he/she has to answer for it, no one ever answers for anything in CMH.

No disagreement here. I made it clear I have/had concerns with the recruiting, interview, hiring process and the numbers/timing. It was as clear then as it is now.

As far as screw ups - I am all for higher standards and more accountability. That's what every healthy organization needs.

As for the period between May and August - it's fair to say I offered a lot of stability to an unavoidable and very unstable situation.

So here we are - it's about where we go from here. Some tend to sit on the sidelines and throw stones, others roll up their sleeves.

Again, it's where we go from here - after the economy "fell off the cliff" that concerns me/many. We need to keep pilots flying, accross the industry.

We need stability and recovery. Crew Integration and Operational Excellence efforts underway will go a long ways. I am sure there is more that can be done.

As for serving masters - some are comfortable just serving an idea/vision/goal - and don't serve any masters. I respect that may be hard for everyone to understand.

Best,

 

[fischman]

You know Cast, I'm all for keeping pilots flying as much as possible, all of us are and painting us in any other light is wrong.

However my issue is with CMH, and the people that kept hiring and hiring, when it was apparant to most that we weren't flying as much as normal. If a pilot screws up he/she has to answer for it, no one ever answers for anything in CMH.

Are you talking about those in the interview rooms, or the ones who said we need to hire 400 pilots?

 

[RNObased]

Are you talking about those in the interview rooms, or the ones who said we need to hire 400 pilots?

What do you think?? If you don't know it is the later.

 

[fischman]

What do you think?? If you don't know it is the later.

If there is anyone who is aware, it is me.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

As someone who held the office of "Union Servant" I can speak with personal history as I express my thoughts on this wildly twisting thread.

Appearance and impression are quite possibly the cornerstones of any leadership position if one wishes to have a positive effect on "moving" people. In obtaining this level of success all leaders must know their own limits and be submissive to the "protocol factor". While we wish we could say this or that because we feel that way... we must learn to keep quiet.

I cannot speak to Bill Olsen's personality or his abilities to perform in the position he has been appointed too as I have no personal knowledge of this man. But what I can say as a soldier on the front line that has access to radio, he has made a clear blunder in choosing to communicate with NJI pilots in this manner. And as such has created an air of uncertainty about who he is and what his goals are.

It goes beyond reason why someone in his position would choose to make his first and official contact with NJI pilots through a personal email. And then to use the terms like "spoon feeding slowly and deliberately" (very insulting to a professional pilot). Before any pilot at NJI knew anything about the LOA, Bill Olsen or the union... We get an email circulating around the water tank that basically describes his whole playbook for the game. And not once, but twice! All the while still no official statements from our management team or Bill Olsen himself. Then again here on Flight Info, the most notorious grenade throwing chat board on the planet (this place is the National Enquirer of Pilot Websites). The average line guy is simply going to question these tactics because they themselves wouldn’t choose them. Its really that simple.

And here in lies the image issue I described above. While his intentions may be sincere (I’m not saying otherwise), his actions go contrary to standard business protocol leading the average pilot to believe something other than what he is stating is really happening.

I personally believe for this integration to have positive effects for the pilots, NJI pilots need to say “adios Okatie management, we appreciate the good times and good memories” and NJASAP needs to take full control of the integration and set the tone.

If there ever was a more appropriate quote for NetJets Pilots during this integration its “Divided we Fail”.

 

[jppt2000]

Wolfpack,
I have a few questions,
How long have you been at NJI?, don't be specific but how many years?
Did you know before you came to NJI that there was a possibility that a single carrier might evolve?
I keep reading about the voice NJI pilots want in the integration.
In your opinion, what is the major point the NJI pilots want to make?
Respectfully,
NJA line pilot

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Wolfpack,
I have a few questions,
How long have you been at NJI?, don't be specific but how many years?

4 years this month.

Did you know before you came to NJI that there was a possibility that a single carrier might evolve?

Absolutely not. I was hired prior to 2005 contract coming into play.

In your opinion, what is the major point the NJI pilots want to make?
Respectfully,
NJA line pilot

I dont think there is any one particular point we want to make, but rather we have the desire to participate in the process. I have and will continue to advocate for NJI pilots the need for NJASAP to work with NJI pilots outside of the LOA in preperation for the final integration notice. We have internal issues which need to be address (and can be). This can prove to be a very very positive thing for NetJets pilots. If NJI pilots are going to be dues paying members of NJASAP, we need to be proactive about the process and make the tranisition smooth. I like to think of this time as being available to "pre-position" people so when the curtain goes up... everyone is in place and knows their lines.

 

[jppt2000]

4 years this month.



Absolutely not. I was hired prior to 2005 contract coming into play.

Thanks for your candid answers.
Please don't take this as flame bait,
but if I may ask a few more questions

So you're saying you didn't know that there was 300+ non union folks and 1800 + union folks working for the same company?

You didn't notice the EJA folks parked next to you, and wonder why we were all so upset?

It never occurred to you the union folks would want to close the scope issue you could drive a G-550 through?

Not to mention the incredible waste and inefficiencies of TWO ops centers, along with the fantastic management teams that went along with both of them?

Did the G-200 coming to EJA cause you any concern?
I airlined on an RJ and sat next to an NJI crew that went on and on about the G-200 coming to EJI, because it was a Gulfstream product.


I don't think there is any one particular point we want to make, but rather we have the desire to participate in the process. I have and will continue to advocate for NJI pilots the need for NJASAP to work with NJI pilots outside of the LOA in preperation for the final integration notice. We have internal issues which need to be address (and can be). This can prove to be a very very positive thing for NetJets pilots. If NJI pilots are going to be dues paying members of NJASAP, we need to be proactive about the process and make the tranisition smooth. I like to think of this time as being available to "pre-position" people so when the curtain goes up... everyone is in place and knows their lines.

Were the pilots at NJI approached to join the union? pre 2005, 2006?

Stick with me here, you essentially want representation without paying any dues?


I have to agree with Cast, it seems he's warning us the house is on fire and we're occupied with leveling the pictures on the walls.
We all need to close ranks and eat the sandwich made for ALL of us to enjoy (tic).

 

[BeeDubya]

Stick with me here, you essentially want representation without paying any dues?

You have to remember that the Union's position in a representational dispute (single carrier) is that we are or should have been the bargaining agent for the whole (single) carrier. Additionally, at the end of the process, we will all be under one roof (Union). I do not see anything wrong with involving the NJI pilots in the process. Of course, the Union has a Duty to represent its membership and will not place greater weight on future members than it does on current ones.

Sincerely,
Brian Ward

 

[FL510GV]

This thread is amazing!

As the Dread Pirate Roberts said to the Sicilian in the midst of a game of wits, to the death, "truly, you have a dizzying intellect!"

PS: ______ is one of the lower 48 (47), so I truly understand his bitterness, but not his unprofessionalism.

 

[jppt2000]

You have to remember that the Union's position in a representational dispute (single carrier) is that we are or should have been the bargaining agent for the whole (single) carrier. Additionally, at the end of the process, we will all be under one roof (Union). I do not see anything wrong with involving the NJI pilots in the process. Of course, the Union has a Duty to represent its membership and will not place greater weight on future members than it does on current ones.

Sincerely,
Brian Ward

Brian,
I too, have no issues with the NJI folks and the integration.
We all work for the same company and from what I understand our futures and quality of living will be a little more secure with this integration.
I was just wondering what kind of involvement in the integration process is wolfpack talking about?
Isn't the process pretty much defined?
BTW, as it has been said before, the sign of a fair seniority integration is where everyone feels equally screwed.

 

[Mountain Troll]

Well, once again the armchair lawyers and wannabe business experts release the steam from their blowhole. Cast, what wonderful prose. Your talents for verbiage are wasted here. However, you need to get to the point clearly or actually say something instead of being so impressed with your ability to compose. BW keep the faith. To Monkeygomery and Williams.... "may your armpits be infested with the fleas of a thousand camels".

There are issues not covered in the LOA. How about nobody at NJI wants per-diem. There are others as well, why don't you ask any NJI guy. Let's not blast it all out here.

But, best of all. There is legal case precedent about this very type of integration. With lawyers and judges too. Anybody ever research or remember history? The NJI guys have more legal protection than they know due this case. The lower 47, well it isn't as bleak as it seems. Things such as expected carreer path are clearly defined.

BO, RTS, NJASAP and NJI Management don't want you folks to know about this because they want you to think they are in control and you have no rights. Well, the case file, and original law firms name have been given to a few NJI pilots (not my younger Brother) so that in the final hours, the legal fee spending will increase and management will perspire. You all have rights, NJA and NJI, why are you listening to someone that is diverting your attention while trying to take something from you? Why do think there is NO written communication directly to you about this subject? Only phone calls and personal visits. See, no proof!

Good Luck Gents

 

[Cavpilot]

But, best of all. There is legal case precedent about this very type of integration. With lawyers and judges too. Anybody ever research or remember history? The NJI guys have more legal protection than they know due this case. The lower 47, well it isn't as bleak as it seems. Things such as expected carreer path are clearly defined.

This is interesting. An NJI guy who is advocating something other than DOH integration. The "expected career path" argument worked out real well for the AAA guys didn't it.

 

[BeeDubya]

Brian,
I was just wondering what kind of involvement in the integration process is wolfpack talking about?
Isn't the process pretty much defined?

Many of the contractual-type issues are already defiend through the LOA negotiation process. However, there are other issues that are not. For example, how implementation occurs, how the Union can reach out to the NJI pilots, how the NJI pilots will become involved within Union affairs, etc. There may be more as we move through the process.

 

[BeeDubya]

There are issues not covered in the LOA. How about nobody at NJI wants per-diem.

Per diem is covered by the LOA (vis-a-vis the 2007 Basic Agreement referenced in Subpart B, paragraph 4).

 

[ozpilot]

BeeDubya,

The reason the NJI guys don't want per diem is they currently can charge all their meals on their company credit cards.

Thats why you'll see NJA pilots eating their crew food in their hotel rooms at HPN while the NJI crews are eating at PF Changs across the street. I don't blame them for being upset.

If they take the per diem they wont be able to do that and they will end up balancing crew food on their laps like the rest of us.

 

[gutshotdraw]

And our average daily meal expense per crewmember is STILL below $45. That's why NJI management keeps us on receipts. It's cheaper.

Like Annie said: "You can look it up."

 

[BeeDubya]

BeeDubya,

The reason the NJI guys don't want per diem is they currently can charge all their meals on their company credit cards.

Thats why you'll see NJA pilots eating their crew food in their hotel rooms at HPN while the NJI crews are eating at PF Changs across the street. I don't blame them for being upset.

If they take the per diem they wont be able to do that and they will end up balancing crew food on their laps like the rest of us.

I understand the differences. My only point was to explain what has been negotiated.

 

[jppt2000]

Many of the contractual-type issues are already defiend through the LOA negotiation process. However, there are other issues that are not. For example, how implementation occurs, how the Union can reach out to the NJI pilots, how the NJI pilots will become involved within Union affairs, etc. There may be more as we move through the process.

Thanks Brian for answering my questions , many folks I've flown with have similar questions.
I hope my questions/rhetoric didn't come off as bitter or angry.
As usual Brian,
thanks for the excellence and perseverance you exhibit daily.

 

[BeeDubya]

Thanks Brian for answering my questions , many folks I've flown with have similar questions.
I hope my questions/rhetoric didn't come off as bitter or angry.
As usual Brian,
thanks for the excellence and perseverance you exhibit daily.

jppt,

You didn't come off as bitter or angry.... of course, message board text is a bad conduit for emotion or subtext...

As I encounter pilots in recurrent or on the road, I also find many, many questions. Some forums seem to be more effective than others at "getting the word out," so I'm trying to hit as many as possible and to add more to the list.

I encourage you or anyone you fly with to contact me or the Integration Team, with any questions you have. Common questions get added to the FAQ list and sent in blast emails. I have no secrets about this process and welcome the opportunity to help others understand.

Thanks for the kind words.
Brian