NetJets Integration

[HiSpeedFlyer]

We have an elected leadership to converse with, I'm just a simple line pilot.
I'm sure you have their numbers.
Respectfully

Yes. Very good people.

Then PLEASE PLEASE next time call them first and use that channel of communication before starting a ********************storm like this on an overly hysterical forum like this one!!!!!!!
Good Gawd, what were you thinking?

 

[CastofThousands]

Then PLEASE PLEASE next time call them first and use that channel of communication before starting a ********************storm like this on an overly hysterical forum like this one!!!!!!!
Good Gawd, what were you thinking?

You're kidding, right? *******************storm? Hysterical???????

I spoke to a few of them last month, last week, and today. I had a beer with a few this past week in CMH. I owe a few a call this weekend.

Let's try not to sensationalize to get a little extra drama. This is quite calm for a pilot/union/company/recession/etc discussion. It's much less dramatic than what I recall from a message board in my previous role.

Always give credit where credit is due (never under estimate pilots) and remember more often than not a message board is for the readers, not the writers.

I know exactly what I was thinking... In many ways I am a janitor - I clean-up while focusing on the people affected. That has always been the case. The fact that I am here should say a lot.

Respectfully,

 

[DO-82 driver]

Cast.....

I thought discussing this sort of information on a public message board was beneath you.

I am truly disappointed that you would choose this medium to communicate the way you did.

Once again you surprise us.

 

[CastofThousands]

Cast.....

I thought discussing this sort of information on a public message board was beneath you.

I am truly disappointed that you would choose this medium to communicate the way you did.

Once again you surprise us.

Respectfully, as stated on page 2 - "just a man." No need to pretend otherwise. Ground level isn't beneath me, it's where I've always been and like to be.

Nobody is better than anyone else. Aren't we all just a bunch of pilots who want to make the profession as good as it can be?

If I am thought as anymore, let's correct that. Just a dirt road live'n country boy focussed on making the profession and by way of NetJets as good as it can be. Questions asked, questions answered. The irony is people wanted information, now they have it.

Happy to be here with the commoners.

Best Regards,

 

[CastofThousands]

So let me get this straight, someone in CMH decides to hire pilots when most of the pilots on the line were questioning this, and now we get to take one for the team. Wow.

Reponsibility, accountability, maybe thinking before acting.... Words that many in CMH fail to understand. I'm not talking about RTS, I'm talking about the people that fail to think before they act in CMH and then run around trying to cover for themselves. Pathetic.

Understood.

I will close up my part in the thread by saying the union and company will be meeting in DC this week. They will be discussing serious issues in search of real solutions. I am confident while some may have concerns I openly discussed some of those issues and possible solutions here, I could care less knowing that it took a lot of time and effort to get to this point.

We are dealing with people's lives and it's critically important we keep it real. In the end it's not about me or any individual, it's about the whole.
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=118208

Respectfully,

 

[gunfyter]

Having this discussion on FI is INSANE. Please take it back to the company board.

2nd the motion..

 

[RustyFan]

I am truly disappointed that you would choose this medium to communicate the way you did.

And that is exactly what the GPAC guys said. It goes beyond comprehension as to why...

Management DID NOT want NJASAP working directly with NJI pilots alone and outside of the company's realm of influence.

Remember my fellow pilots; Mr. Olsen (working directly for RTS) has informed us all through an email he sent his old neighbor about one of the biggest integrations in recent NMB history... That we need to be spoon-feed, slowly and deliberately.

When NJASAP engages NJI pilots with no one else in the room... Olsen and company can take their spoons and stick 'em up their *ss.

 

[fischman]

Respectfully, as stated on page 2 - "just a man." No need to pretend otherwise. Ground level isn't beneath me, it's where I've always been and like to be.

Nobody is better than anyone else.

I wholeheartedly disagree. I suppose you haven't read the thread where "NetJets Captains need to get over themselves"?


I

am AWESOME.

 

[CastofThousands]

And that is exactly what the GPAC guys said. It goes beyond comprehension as to why...

Management DID NOT want NJASAP working directly with NJI pilots alone and outside of the company's realm of influence.

Remember my fellow pilots; Mr. Olsen (working directly for RTS) has informed us all through an email he sent his old neighbor about one of the biggest integrations in recent NMB history... That we need to be spoon-feed, slowly and deliberately.

When NJASAP engages NJI pilots with no one else in the room... Olsen and company can take their spoons and stick 'em up their *ss.

You clearly don't know me too well. When we have that meet and greet - just introduce yourself as you do on the board.

We'll take it from there. Feel free to send me an email with your name on it anytime. Clearly you don't know who played you up and down or where the org fell down. I enjoy that they spun you so well you don't even know what direction to point. One day you'll figure it out. I own up to my work, start to finish - I have never once asked anyone else to do the heavy lifting or unpopular work; never ask someone else to do what you're not willing to do yourself.

Don't let it keep you up at night, you'll get there eventually. Rest assured, you're barking up the wrong tree.

The pilots have great representation.

 

[Diesel]

I know exactly what I was thinking... In many ways I am a janitor - I clean-up while focusing on the people affected. That has always been the case. The fact that I am here should say a lot.

Oh it so does.

I'm wondering if the owners are comfortable with the fact that their investment is seen as unstable, due to a high level of management posting on a public messageboard?

Or maybe the agenda is part of that, to scare everyone even though the master plan is already started. This is the rainmaker part, don't worry I'm gonna make it rain, i'm gonna make it rain, and when it rains.... see I told you I made it rain. Much like, we're going to avoid furloughs, we're going to avoid furloughs, even though in the master plan furloughs were never part of it. Just a way to get concessions from the pilot group.

Remember never let a good crisis pass you by. A company is able to make cuts and adjust contracts that they could never get away with in the good times. I'm sorry I'm not quick to jump on the bandwagon.

Take a look at fedex, reduction in hours, downfleeting, displacement bids, paying for moves, and all because they made 250 million dollars profit last quarter.

Don't let anyone fool you. When managment has to come on a public messageboard to spread the word you know something is afoot. Planting the seed to the start of a campaign perhaps? hmmmm

Of course I could be all wrong I'm just a simple country boy from central jersey.

Super Respectfully,
D

 

[CastofThousands]

Simply reread the thread. No concerns re: that I've posted or what I've posted. Plenty of personal responses stating it's appreciated. 99.9% get it and understand the purpose. Not too complicated.

I have now exceeded my lifetime FI quota. It has been real. It has been fun. I can't say it's been real fun. It was important to ensure the message was delivered that in private aviation - all is not well. I think it's in the paper and our Chief Executive clearly said "it stinks" in the NY Times. I know an 8 year old can put all I've posted together. Don't ask me why my 8 year old likes to talk about it all, she just loves what we do. She's very proud of our profession and company. When I leave home she insist on sleeping in NetJets T-Shirts. So, I have to believe if it's not earth shattering to her, only in rare individual cases should it be earth shattering in any public forum.

As for what some others have posted - that's for them to own. A lot of righteous posts from not-so-righteous individuals; conversation that are truly not appropriate in the public forum.

Always a proponent of civil discourse, discussion, and debate. From here it will be an internal matter that will undoubtedly make it back to the public forums (without me).

Finally, to those who have been negatively affected by the financial crisis and economic down turn thus far, more specifically within our industry, all my best and I know there are a lot of very good people in many different companies doing all they can to turn it all around.

All my best,

 

[JustInfo]

It is all clear now. RTS and BO staged this whole economic downturn for their benefit. They also have been leaving people home and sitting in hotels to stage what appears to be a slow down, when in fact they are just doing it to screw the pilots. I can't believe I was so blind. Thank you all for clearing it up!

(Please insert sarcasm as needed)

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I have never once asked anyone else to do the heavy lifting or unpopular work; never ask someone else to do what you're not willing to do yourself.

Your right about that, I agree. Thats why I got involved with the union in the 1st place back in my former life.



OK Bill,

Since the stars have aligned, the universe is upside down and we are using F.I. for this discussion (which goes beyond comprehension).

Answer this.... With a simple "YES" or "NO" please.

Is it your opinion that NJI LINE pilots should have an advocate from within their ranks that is not hand selected by anyone from management but comes from within, to work with you/NJASAP/Okatie concerning the implementation of the LOA?

(Bonus Question)

If you do feel NJI pilots should have someone representing their interests in these discussions, are you willing to make sure that happens? Will you guarantee this person unfettered access to all meetings and people working on the integration?



Captain William Vaughan (I know you, now you know me)
GIV

 

[FLYLOW22]

Understood.

I will close up my part in the thread by saying the union and company will be meeting in DC this week. They will be discussing serious issues in search of real solutions. I am confident while some may have concerns I openly discussed some of those issues and possible solutions here, I could care less knowing that it took a lot of time and effort to get to this point.

We are dealing with people's lives and it's critically important we keep it real. In the end it's not about me or any individual, it's about the whole.
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=118208

Respectfully,

Have fun negotiating against the pilots Prince William. How noble.

 

[Fozzy]

Hey it is amateur hour.

This is just stupid. It embarrasses me that we are airing our fking laundry in public. Just give him a login to the NJASAP board on his own side so we can live under the illusion that he can't see the pilot side of the board. Then at least we don't look like a bunch of amateurs airing out all this crap in public.:0

Really not impressed.

 

[Hogprint]

This is just stupid. It embarrasses me that we are airing our fking laundry in public. Just give him a login to the NJASAP board on his own side so we can live under the illusion that he can't see the pilot side of the board. Then at least we don't look like a bunch of amateurs airing out all this crap in public.:0

Really not impressed.

Could not agree more Fozzy. You've all heard the term "don't feed the trolls"?

Don't feed Management on this forum! If you must talk about this take it to our internal. Even then M will still be reading.

 

[CA1900]

Even then M will still be reading.

Count on it:

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3096/picture1qdd.png

 

[172driver]

Is that a login from our boards?

 

[Diesel]

no it's from FI our boards don't allow screen names, just real names.

 

[CA1900]

Is that a login from our boards?

What Diesel said.

He was the company mole/FUD-spreader a few years back. Search his posts from 2005.

 

[jppt2000]

Your right about that, I agree. Thats why I got involved with the union in the 1st place back in my former life.



OK Bill,

Since the stars have aligned, the universe is upside down and we are using F.I. for this discussion (which goes beyond comprehension).

Answer this.... With a simple "YES" or "NO" please.

Is it your opinion that NJI LINE pilots should have an advocate from within their ranks that is not hand selected by anyone from management but comes from within, to work with you/NJASAP/Okatie concerning the implementation of the LOA?

(Bonus Question)

If you do feel NJI pilots should have someone representing their interests in these discussions, are you willing to make sure that happens? Will you guarantee this person unfettered access to all meetings and people working on the integration?



Captain William Vaughan (I know you, now you know me)
GIV

Wolfpack,
More questions if you don't mind sharing

Willam,

You never answered my question about noticing if there was an issue between the NJI/NJA pilots when you first came to NJI.

It's amazing to me, someone with all of your union experience would be oblivious to the NJI NJA issue.

Were you told by your leadership that integration would never happen?

Were you never aware that the NJI pilot group was asked on more than one occasion for integration?

What unionized carrier did you fly for before coming to NJI?

What was it like flying for and representing pilots in a union leadership position, at a unionized carrier, then leaving for non-union carrier?

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Are you writing my autobiography for me or something? Geez dude, you sound a little creepy.


Were you told by your leadership that integration would never happen?

Yes, that is correct. Every pilot at NJI heard their superiors say more than once, "YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN".

Were you never aware that the NJI pilot group was asked on more than one occasion for integration?

No, I have no knowledge of what the union did or didn't do prior to the CBA agreement in '05.

What unionized carrier did you fly for before coming to NJI?

ACA, MDW, CMR

What was it like flying for and representing pilots in a union leadership position, at a unionized carrier, then leaving for non-union carrier?

A blessing like I never could imagine. NJI (NetJets) has been very good to me and my family. I have nothing but respect for this business model and Mr. Santulli. Are there things I dont like? Sure, show me a perfect place... doesn't exist. But NetJets is about as close as you can get to having the best of both worlds (insert Hanna Montana video)...


AND....

Im a scorpio, like popcorn, long walks on the beach, Barry Manilow, and cuddling on the coach with my wife and our 4 poodles and 3 cats.

 

[CA1900]

Im a scorpio, like popcorn, long walks on the beach, Barry Manilow, and cuddling on the coach with my wife and our 4 poodles and 3 cats.

Haha.... :laugh:

 

[jppt2000]

Are you writing my autobiography for me or something? Geez dude, you sound a little creepy.


Were you told by your leadership that integration would never happen?

Yes, that is correct. Every pilot at NJI heard their superiors say more than once, "YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN".

Were you never aware that the NJI pilot group was asked on more than one occasion for integration?

No, I have no knowledge of what the union did or didn't do prior to the CBA agreement in '05.

What unionized carrier did you fly for before coming to NJI?

ACA, MDW, CMR

What was it like flying for and representing pilots in a union leadership position, at a unionized carrier, then leaving for non-union carrier?

A blessing like I never could imagine. NJI (NetJets) has been very good to me and my family. I have nothing but respect for this business model and Mr. Santulli. Are there things I dont like? Sure, show me a perfect place... doesn't exist. But NetJets is about as close as you can get to having the best of both worlds (insert Hanna Montana video)...


AND....

Im a scorpio, like popcorn, long walks on the beach, Barry Manilow, and cuddling on the coach with my wife and our 4 poodles and 3 cats.

Creepy?

Well allow me to retort (as Julius in Pulp Fiction said).

Its pretty obvious you're trying to both vilify and denigrate Cast of Thousand's and many, many, other countless volunteers' work by offering half truth's and self-serving suggestions and threats.
Although I have strongly disagreed with some of Cast's philosophies, he and his cast of thousands, together, have just about completed a miracle. Proving me wrong many times.
Your frustration and greed is thinly disguised with your concern for having a voice in the integration.

You are a fool to think you can convince anyone that you were never made aware of the NJI/NJA issue when you first came here or soon afterward.

The smell from the integration issue had been percolating like an open sewer for years.
Folks at NJA were told by probably some of the same folks that fed you the non-integration line, "just wait, you will fly G-whiz's too" over a decade ago.

Remember Mr. Vaughn, you allowed yourself to get near the metaphorical sewer (integration issue) and now a little of the stink has splashed on you.
Bleach, oxyclean, acid will not get it off of you.
Neither will attacking folks tasked with trying to move forward with improving our ALL of our lives.
Too Bad Bill Vaughn, WE ALL NEED TO MOVE ON.

Shame on you for trying to instill FUD into the integration LOA.
Thank you BW for correcting both Bill and I on some issues.
You admit you had no idea that the NJI folks were approached by the union many times earlier.
I don't believe you.
Remind me again, you were union leadership?

You, Bill Vaughn in my opinion, exhibit a textbook "what's in it for me", "know it all" attitude.

I hope to see you run for a NJASAP union position, your reputation will precede you.

You might want to clean up your act though, our elected leaders are razor sharp, professional and tenacious.
Judging by your posts on this messageboard you have a long long long way to go.

Lastly, I have a few more questions:

Do you like Pina Coladas?
Getting Caught in the rain?
Are you into Yoga? Do you have half a brain?
I'll skip the next few questions
Write to me and we'll escape imp:

 

[Diesel]

sorry jppt you couldn't be more wrong. As a gear puller switch bitch for Billy him and I have many conversations about what is going on. I've also talked to as many pilots that you can imagine and all have the same line. "there is no way NJA pilots would or will come over here". It had been like that since 86 or so, so why wouldn't it continue.

He isn't, you're anger is misplaced, and BO made his best shot at spreading FUD and got shot down. Maybe a guy with a limb and a trunk will help spread the word of BO some more but I have a feeling even he is getting tired of the FUD message.

Sorry know it all and whats in it for me describes me not Bill.

Way off base but so is most the preconceptions of the NJA and NJI pilots.

 

[jppt2000]

sorry jppt you couldn't be more wrong. As a gear puller switch bitch for Billy him and I have many conversations about what is going on. I've also talked to as many pilots that you can imagine and all have the same line. "there is no way NJA pilots would or will come over here". It had been like that since 86 or so, so why wouldn't it continue.

He isn't, you're anger is misplaced, and BO made his best shot at spreading FUD and got shot down. Maybe a guy with a limb and a trunk will help spread the word of BO some more but I have a feeling even he is getting tired of the FUD message.

Sorry know it all and whats in it for me describes me not Bill.

Way off base but so is most the preconceptions of the NJA and NJI pilots.

Diesel, I'm not angry.
Just very cynical.
I flew many tours with the guy who always followed BO around with a fresh roll of toilet paper.
He was the biggest pilot-union advocate/ management-critic you could of imagined.
I held the exact opinion of this VP you now have of Wolfpack.
Have you read Wolfpack's posts from years past?
I really loved the one about how he (a Gulfstream pilot with two type ratings) would be looking for a job if integration was announced.
I don't believe for a second he didn't know 2000+ pilots at NJA were not going to take issue with NJI.
What kind of a ex-union leader would not have the slightest interest in what was going on with NJA?
What kind of a ex-union leader wouldn't question what was in the koolaide being served by management.
Even with the past LOA allegations that have been made of our two "shepherds", they did accomplish what was asked of them and much more.
They stood up and delivered.
Those are the facts.
IMHO we need to move on with the future.
Bill O was correct about the sins of our fathers (284), and we all have to take a bite out of the sandwich, including yourself.

 

[CastofThousands]

sorry jppt you couldn't be more wrong. As a gear puller switch bitch for Billy him and I have many conversations about what is going on. I've also talked to as many pilots that you can imagine and all have the same line. "there is no way NJA pilots would or will come over here". It had been like that since 86 or so, so why wouldn't it continue.

He isn't, you're anger is misplaced, and BO made his best shot at spreading FUD and got shot down. Maybe a guy with a limb and a trunk will help spread the word of BO some more but I have a feeling even he is getting tired of the FUD message.

Sorry know it all and whats in it for me describes me not Bill.

Way off base but so is most the preconceptions of the NJA and NJI pilots.

Diesel (Dunner),

Shot down? Are you serious. Hundreds of emails, dozens of FI PM's, and a lot of phone calls vs a couple of what appears to be teenage infatuation style "why did you dump me" FI therapy session posts? All good here, more than 3,500 pilots at NJ-US and this far from represents the professional pilots I know - very well.

Please understand, there are people one can be proud to upset. It is said, "if you're not upsetting [some] people, it's most likely because you're doing nothing." A solid group of NetJets pilots got a lot done in less than five years and none of us regret some are upset. To me what I see here is simply affirmation the [pilot] mainstream has clearly disregarded you and others.

Keep in mind more than 94% of NetJets pilot are happy with their NetJets CBA and career... Numbers that exceed every air carrier in the US, Europe, and Asia. Numbers that have been consistent and climb slightly over the past four years. That didn't happen without upsetting people. That's life.

So when we have an NJA to NJI pilot who wanted to separate from (leave) their union, if NJI would treat them like the non-union NJI pilots and upgrade them to Captain out of seniority lecturing me and others... What???? Or, a previous union [leader] pilot talking about how great it is to be a non-union pilot... What???? Preaching ... is truly laughable.

Like I said, the [FI] righteous aren't so righteous. And, it's fun for some to pretend on FI. I will continue to do what I have done over the past five years with the same goals and principle - you can just keep on talk'n.

If you can't grasp reality - you're set for failure. You clearly don't know the difference between FUD and reality. Good news ... At least 3,300 of the 3,500 NetJets pilot are waiting for you to catch up.

Enjoy,

.

 

[gunfyter]

Word is a 10% pay increase for the 7&7 schedule likely will entice 18 day folks to switch schedules.

That solves the man-day issue.

 

[fischman]

Diesel (Dunner),

Shot down? Are you serious. Hundreds of emails, dozens of FI PM's, and a lot of phone calls vs a couple of what appears to be teenage infatuation style "why did you dump me" FI therapy session posts? All good here, more than 3,500 pilots at NJ-US and this far from represents the professional pilots I know - very well.

Please understand, there are people one can be proud to upset. It is said, "if you're not upsetting [some] people, it's most likely because you're doing nothing." A solid group of NetJets pilots got a lot done in less than five years and none of us regret some are upset. To me what I see here is simply affirmation the [pilot] mainstream has clearly disregarded you and others.

Keep in mind more than 94% of NetJets pilot are happy with their NetJets CBA and career... Numbers that exceed every air carrier in the US, Europe, and Asia. Numbers that have been consistent and climb slightly over the past four years. That didn't happen without upsetting people. That's life.

So when we have an NJA to NJI pilot who wanted to separate from (leave) their union, if NJI would treat them like the non-union NJI pilots and upgrade them to Captain out of seniority lecturing me and others... What???? Or, a previous union [leader] pilot talking about how great it is to be a non-union pilot... What???? Preaching ... is truly laughable.

Like I said, the [FI] righteous aren't so righteous. And, it's fun for some to pretend on FI. I will continue to do what I have done over the past five years with the same goals and principle - you can just keep on talk'n.

If you can't grasp reality - you're set for failure. You clearly don't know the difference between FUD and reality. Good news ... At least 3,300 of the 3,500 NetJets pilot are waiting for you to catch up.

Enjoy,

.

I didn't know we were throwing names around on FI.com Mr. Olsen?

I think Diesel might be premature on a shoot down, but unfortunately, I see your posts now as nothing more than FUD spinning. BTW, that is what is being said on certain private boards I frequent as well. I suggest rethinking what and how you make things public.

With respects,

Fischer

 

[CastofThousands]

If by Rudyard Kipling

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream---and not make dreams your master;
If you can think---and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same:.
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build'em up with worn-out tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings,
And never breathe a word about your loss:
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings---nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And---which is more---you'll be a Man, my son!


.