NetJets Integration

[BeeDubya]

All (tic),
In the next few days, I would not be surprised to see an ICOM, telling us: please do not argue with known members of the OFFICE OF THE CHAIRMAN, or NJASAP union officials on anonymous internet message boards.
IMHO are we getting close to ethics violations here?
All the best (tic)

Cast should know this better than anyone else, facts are very stubborn things.

I have no problem with healthy and respectful discourse. Nor do I object to differring points of view. I do feel that respect and courtesy are important.

Fraternally,

Brian

 

[Diesel]

hteous' players I see here? Not exactly.

So far what's clear is that many of the same people are ignoring reality, again. That won't change. Many of the few embrace management/managers when mangagement/managers can serve their interests and labor/lavor leaders when they can serve their interests. I watch it every day - watched it years ago and I still see it now. They know who they are - they are known to managers and labor leaders. But as I've said, they can continue to pretend.

I guess its called being cynical and knowing that you can only serve one master. You answer two someone else now, no big deal and you did what you had to do. You don't have my best interests in mind anymore. Its that simple. You answer to the boss man and if he doesn't like what you're doing you'll change your stance, not the same if the pilots don't like what your doing. Please don't tell me any different I'm not that naive.

As long as the facts are the facts, no concerns here. What has been posted here falls in the "not exactly." No need for me to argue about it here, most know better. We can't all agree or be friends - that's life.

Not exactly was the limbo time you spent between the contract being finished and your movement over to the office of the president. It was a grey area that timed up perfectly during the elections. At least you got on and said you were thinking of going, your partner just packed up in the middle of the night and left.

I question everything. So I really perk up when all of a sudden you're on the FI spreading the word of BO.... you gotta wonder.

Super Respectfully,

D

 

[RNObased]

Nothing wrong with a healthy discussion. No question it should be "respectful discourse."

As long as the facts are the facts, no concerns here. What has been posted here falls in the "not exactly." No need for me to argue about it here, most know better. We can't all agree or be friends - that's life.

I would think people would want to focus on the important stuff - like how do we keep as many pilots flying as possible for the short and long term. Clearly not on the minds of a few. Very directly, it never was on their mind.

Respectfully,


.

You know Cast, I'm all for keeping pilots flying as much as possible, all of us are and painting us in any other light is wrong.

However my issue is with CMH, and the people that kept hiring and hiring, when it was apparant to most that we weren't flying as much as normal. If a pilot screws up he/she has to answer for it, no one ever answers for anything in CMH.

 

[squonk]

Diesel posted;

I question everything. So I really perk up when all of a sudden you're on the FI spreading the word of BO.... you gotta
wonder.

Why yes I do wonder?

Nine posts by CofT in this thread and not one communique' via Blackberry...

From him or anyone else in the brain trust the last two months for that matter.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Many are begining to realize that the "golden calf"
may have actually been made of wood, stuffed with sawdust and covered in very, very thin gold leave.

This doesn't diminish my sincere appreciation of what was accomplished in the past. It just makes me realize that we are all human.... for better of for worse.

 

[CastofThousands]

You know Cast, I'm all for keeping pilots flying as much as possible, all of us are and painting us in any other light is wrong.

However my issue is with CMH, and the people that kept hiring and hiring, when it was apparant to most that we weren't flying as much as normal. If a pilot screws up he/she has to answer for it, no one ever answers for anything in CMH.

No disagreement here. I made it clear I have/had concerns with the recruiting, interview, hiring process and the numbers/timing. It was as clear then as it is now.

As far as screw ups - I am all for higher standards and more accountability. That's what every healthy organization needs.

As for the period between May and August - it's fair to say I offered a lot of stability to an unavoidable and very unstable situation.

So here we are - it's about where we go from here. Some tend to sit on the sidelines and throw stones, others roll up their sleeves.

Again, it's where we go from here - after the economy "fell off the cliff" that concerns me/many. We need to keep pilots flying, accross the industry.

We need stability and recovery. Crew Integration and Operational Excellence efforts underway will go a long ways. I am sure there is more that can be done.

As for serving masters - some are comfortable just serving an idea/vision/goal - and don't serve any masters. I respect that may be hard for everyone to understand.

Best,

 

[fischman]

You know Cast, I'm all for keeping pilots flying as much as possible, all of us are and painting us in any other light is wrong.

However my issue is with CMH, and the people that kept hiring and hiring, when it was apparant to most that we weren't flying as much as normal. If a pilot screws up he/she has to answer for it, no one ever answers for anything in CMH.

Are you talking about those in the interview rooms, or the ones who said we need to hire 400 pilots?

 

[RNObased]

Are you talking about those in the interview rooms, or the ones who said we need to hire 400 pilots?

What do you think?? If you don't know it is the later.

 

[fischman]

What do you think?? If you don't know it is the later.

If there is anyone who is aware, it is me.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

As someone who held the office of "Union Servant" I can speak with personal history as I express my thoughts on this wildly twisting thread.

Appearance and impression are quite possibly the cornerstones of any leadership position if one wishes to have a positive effect on "moving" people. In obtaining this level of success all leaders must know their own limits and be submissive to the "protocol factor". While we wish we could say this or that because we feel that way... we must learn to keep quiet.

I cannot speak to Bill Olsen's personality or his abilities to perform in the position he has been appointed too as I have no personal knowledge of this man. But what I can say as a soldier on the front line that has access to radio, he has made a clear blunder in choosing to communicate with NJI pilots in this manner. And as such has created an air of uncertainty about who he is and what his goals are.

It goes beyond reason why someone in his position would choose to make his first and official contact with NJI pilots through a personal email. And then to use the terms like "spoon feeding slowly and deliberately" (very insulting to a professional pilot). Before any pilot at NJI knew anything about the LOA, Bill Olsen or the union... We get an email circulating around the water tank that basically describes his whole playbook for the game. And not once, but twice! All the while still no official statements from our management team or Bill Olsen himself. Then again here on Flight Info, the most notorious grenade throwing chat board on the planet (this place is the National Enquirer of Pilot Websites). The average line guy is simply going to question these tactics because they themselves wouldn’t choose them. Its really that simple.

And here in lies the image issue I described above. While his intentions may be sincere (I’m not saying otherwise), his actions go contrary to standard business protocol leading the average pilot to believe something other than what he is stating is really happening.

I personally believe for this integration to have positive effects for the pilots, NJI pilots need to say “adios Okatie management, we appreciate the good times and good memories” and NJASAP needs to take full control of the integration and set the tone.

If there ever was a more appropriate quote for NetJets Pilots during this integration its “Divided we Fail”.

 

[jppt2000]

Wolfpack,
I have a few questions,
How long have you been at NJI?, don't be specific but how many years?
Did you know before you came to NJI that there was a possibility that a single carrier might evolve?
I keep reading about the voice NJI pilots want in the integration.
In your opinion, what is the major point the NJI pilots want to make?
Respectfully,
NJA line pilot

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Wolfpack,
I have a few questions,
How long have you been at NJI?, don't be specific but how many years?

4 years this month.

Did you know before you came to NJI that there was a possibility that a single carrier might evolve?

Absolutely not. I was hired prior to 2005 contract coming into play.

In your opinion, what is the major point the NJI pilots want to make?
Respectfully,
NJA line pilot

I dont think there is any one particular point we want to make, but rather we have the desire to participate in the process. I have and will continue to advocate for NJI pilots the need for NJASAP to work with NJI pilots outside of the LOA in preperation for the final integration notice. We have internal issues which need to be address (and can be). This can prove to be a very very positive thing for NetJets pilots. If NJI pilots are going to be dues paying members of NJASAP, we need to be proactive about the process and make the tranisition smooth. I like to think of this time as being available to "pre-position" people so when the curtain goes up... everyone is in place and knows their lines.

 

[jppt2000]

4 years this month.



Absolutely not. I was hired prior to 2005 contract coming into play.

Thanks for your candid answers.
Please don't take this as flame bait,
but if I may ask a few more questions

So you're saying you didn't know that there was 300+ non union folks and 1800 + union folks working for the same company?

You didn't notice the EJA folks parked next to you, and wonder why we were all so upset?

It never occurred to you the union folks would want to close the scope issue you could drive a G-550 through?

Not to mention the incredible waste and inefficiencies of TWO ops centers, along with the fantastic management teams that went along with both of them?

Did the G-200 coming to EJA cause you any concern?
I airlined on an RJ and sat next to an NJI crew that went on and on about the G-200 coming to EJI, because it was a Gulfstream product.


I don't think there is any one particular point we want to make, but rather we have the desire to participate in the process. I have and will continue to advocate for NJI pilots the need for NJASAP to work with NJI pilots outside of the LOA in preperation for the final integration notice. We have internal issues which need to be address (and can be). This can prove to be a very very positive thing for NetJets pilots. If NJI pilots are going to be dues paying members of NJASAP, we need to be proactive about the process and make the tranisition smooth. I like to think of this time as being available to "pre-position" people so when the curtain goes up... everyone is in place and knows their lines.

Were the pilots at NJI approached to join the union? pre 2005, 2006?

Stick with me here, you essentially want representation without paying any dues?


I have to agree with Cast, it seems he's warning us the house is on fire and we're occupied with leveling the pictures on the walls.
We all need to close ranks and eat the sandwich made for ALL of us to enjoy (tic).

 

[BeeDubya]

Stick with me here, you essentially want representation without paying any dues?

You have to remember that the Union's position in a representational dispute (single carrier) is that we are or should have been the bargaining agent for the whole (single) carrier. Additionally, at the end of the process, we will all be under one roof (Union). I do not see anything wrong with involving the NJI pilots in the process. Of course, the Union has a Duty to represent its membership and will not place greater weight on future members than it does on current ones.

Sincerely,
Brian Ward

 

[FL510GV]

This thread is amazing!

As the Dread Pirate Roberts said to the Sicilian in the midst of a game of wits, to the death, "truly, you have a dizzying intellect!"

PS: ______ is one of the lower 48 (47), so I truly understand his bitterness, but not his unprofessionalism.