NetJets' Captains need to get over themselves!

[B727FA]

I just wanted to ruffle some feathers on this issue and see what kind of response I got.

SUCCESS!

I did this anonymously for that reason, some of you might think that is cowardly but your comments only confirm that even If I had brought this issue up in a way you would have accepted I would still probably catch hell for it.

Get off the cross, we need the wood for the new hanger. You've been advised, quite nicely, how to address this in a more acceptable way: ProStan or the Union board.

By the way, two more pax legs today. I still haven't talked to him about it yet. A few more days to go yet. Two pax legs tomorrow. I decided to see just how far this goes before I raise the issue.

Why wait? It's NOT going to change if you don't speak up. You're not a victim...stop choosing to be.

 

[fly4funcrj]

Ok, I skipped a lot of this since it's the same stuff. The g200 fleet is making pics fly left seat, sic's fly right seat. I'm willing to be this will become SOP. Who gives a crap. I'm happy just to sit there and collect a paycheck and eat my 4 meals a day

 

[NetjetsFalcon]

Just the fact you're a Gold Seal CFI should entitle you to all the passenger flying.

DORK.

 

[B727FA]

In the end, can someone tell me why exactly it matters?

 

[vballindaytona]

gold seal cfi. ha. there are x air force one pilots and astronauts in the nj family....and you have the balls to claim gold seal cfi? thanks for the laugh.

 

[o2bflyn]

In the end, can someone tell me why exactly it matters?

It shouldn't.

 

[brokeflyer]

In the end, can someone tell me why exactly it matters?

I dont know...ask porter....he's seems to have the issue.

This whole thread should never have happened. So i dont feel a bit sorry for the flak.

 

[Mike Jenvey]

Please could you look back at my previous post (#63) & see if you can help out with any answers.

I'm a little confused as the different practices (& attitudes) seem to suggest there is scope for huge variations in protocol, standards, & CRM - with potential deterioration of FO handling skills..... why not a simple "alternating" policy for flying sectors, regardless of pax or ferry leg (subject to any mandatory parameters, etc)??

 

[gutshotdraw]

Please could you look back at my previous post (#63) & see if you can help out with any answers.

I'm a little confused as the different practices (& attitudes) seem to suggest there is scope for huge variations in protocol, standards, & CRM - with potential deterioration of FO handling skills..... why not a simple "alternating" policy for flying sectors, regardless of pax or ferry leg (subject to any mandatory parameters, etc)??

Mike,

NJI policy per FOM in abbreviated form:

Until the pilot has attended their first recurrent training, the SIC shall fly only from the right seat, at the Captain's discretion, regardless of whether there are passengers on board. Once the SIC has attended his/her first recurrent, the SIC may, at the Captain's discretion, fly empty legs from the left seat.

Experience has shown, in this operation at least, that empty leg flying from the left seat helps prepare the SIC's for upgrade since the Gulfstream's ground handling tendencies (especially on 90 degree FBO ramp parking turns) take a little time to master.

When two PIC qualified pilots fly together, some guys swap legs in the left seat, some guys swap days (my preference).

FWIW, I have had many, many occasions where I offered the pax leg to the SIC from the right seat. Almost to a man, they have said: "Nah. I'll fly the ferry leg if that's okay."

Just one of the many reasons why I'm glad this Porter character won't get anywhere near the Gulfstream fleet in this or the next decade.

 

[Mike Jenvey]

Thanks for the outline, gsd, very useful.

<<<< Once the SIC has attended his/her first recurrent, the SIC may, at the Captain's discretion, fly empty legs from the left seat. >>>>

All in favour of that, as you say, it helps prepare for up-grades. Across in Europe, it would be unusual to up-grade from large cabin & remain on type, so whilst it is useful to get used to fleet-specific handling characteristics, it wouldn't really be of much (up-grade) benefit over here.

<<<< Until the pilot has attended their first recurrent training, the SIC shall fly only from the right seat, at the Captain's discretion, regardless of whether there are passengers on board. >>>>

No such "captain's" limitation for us - it would be deemed detrimental for the captain to just fly the pax legs. Subject to FOM/special category airports, we would normally fly alternating legs, pax or no pax. Sometimes I might swapt the order or give the FO 2 legs in a row (what a mean SOB!!) so that they can operate into a "new" airport for better experience. Very, very occasionally, we have a pax profile that says it should always be a captain's sector - sorry, don't agree with that at all! :angryfire

<<<< When two PIC qualified pilots fly together, some guys swap legs in the left seat, some guys swap days (my preference).>>>>

Swapping by days is very much my preference too, say 3 in a row in one seat, then swap across for the remaining 3 days of the tour. Can't cope with getting the seat just right after each leg!!

<<<< FWIW, I have had many, many occasions where I offered the pax leg to the SIC from the right seat. Almost to a man, they have said: "Nah. I'll fly the ferry leg if that's okay." >>>>

This is something I just can't understand - but in Europe we don't have the seat swap option for captain/FO - if they don't accept a pax leg (even from the RHS), then what on earth are they doing there?? Surely, pax legs are all part of the development/experience/customer service?? Not sure if I agree 100% with what Porter tried to put over, & how he wrote up his experience (damned if he listed it, damned if he didn't??), but perhaps a common policy across all your fleets for who flies what legs (subject to the provisos mentioned above) would encourage FO development & remind those who need it of their responsibilities as captain....??

<<<< They always teach in CRM that the Capt sets the "tone" but, I would rather fly in stereo rather in mono...we both set the tone >>>>

Ain't that the truth!!