NetJets' Captains need to get over themselves!

[transpac]

I can't think of any reason a SIC couldn't do 99% of the type rating and Pt 135 training and checkride maneuvers from the right seat. If taxiing can't be done from the right seat, it could be done from the left.

 

[theskyking]

As someone who does sit in the right seat at NJA, I couldn't care less which seat I sit in during a check ride. I can't believe it's all that big of a deal. Are you telling me you can't accomplish the same maneuvers from either seat? Not sure of the other fleets, but you have to be in the left seat to be able to deal with any start malfunctions. So, sit in the left seat and do your check ride. If you aren't competent enough to get it done, then go do something else.

 

[G200_PILOT]

I can't think of any reason a SIC couldn't do 99% of the type rating and Pt 135 training and checkride maneuvers from the right seat. If taxiing can't be done from the right seat, it could be done from the left.

Believe it or not, it's not that simple here at NJA. Again, like I said before, our training guidelines are VERY strict. To the point that our instructors CAN'T do anything "outside the box." The way NJA has it set up, we each have 120 minutes to accomplish 180 minutes worth of procedures. We have NO time for anything extra. The FSI instructors are given a book that contains our lesson plans. They have no choice but to follow it to a tee. Those that have strayed from it have been disciplined/terminated. It's not something the company nor FSI takes lightly. That being the case... in order for it to be done the right way (SICs trained and checked from the right seat) the entire lesson plan has to be re-written AND APPROVED. That's where they're at right now.

I'm done. I've told you everything I know about it. If you still have doubts or questions, call the pilot hotline, press "0" and ask to speak with the DO.

 

[G200_PILOT]

As someone who does sit in the right seat at NJA, I couldn't care less which seat I sit in during a check ride. I can't believe it's all that big of a deal. Are you telling me you can't accomplish the same maneuvers from either seat? Not sure of the other fleets, but you have to be in the left seat to be able to deal with any start malfunctions. So, sit in the left seat and do your check ride. If you aren't competent enough to get it done, then go do something else.

I think you'd be surprised how many SIC look at it a bit differently than you.

 

[transpac]

Believe it or not, it's not that simple here at NJA.

Fair enough. I was speaking strictly of the FAR requirements. In all cases the training program contains the approved specifics, which may go beyond the FAR requirements.

 

[172driver]

As someone who does sit in the right seat at NJA, I couldn't care less which seat I sit in during a check ride. I can't believe it's all that big of a deal. Are you telling me you can't accomplish the same maneuvers from either seat? Not sure of the other fleets, but you have to be in the left seat to be able to deal with any start malfunctions. So, sit in the left seat and do your check ride. If you aren't competent enough to get it done, then go do something else.

As I said, it's not a huge deal, it's not unsafe, but it's not as safe or effective as it could be. I can and do accomplish the same maneuvers in the left seat, but it takes me an hour or so before I get used to the reversal of all the buttons on the yoke, and there are a lot of them in the Beechjet. Also, start malfunctions and taxi can be fully dealt with from the right seat of the 400. It's not about being competent, it's about training how you fly and flying how you train.

 

[glasspilot]

Why does an FO need to taxi on a checkride? They already have the type so the company can still advertise fully typed crews.

Do they also need to be fully current from the left seat? Are there times the company needs two FOs to repo a plane so one needs to be current from the left seat?

 

[G200_PILOT]

Why does an FO need to taxi on a checkride? They already have the type so the company can still advertise fully typed crews.

Do they also need to be fully current from the left seat? Are there times the company needs two FOs to repo a plane so one needs to be current from the left seat?

Ummmmm.... NO!

 

[glasspilot]

That's what I thought, so then...

Why do FO's need to be current from the left seat?

 

[G200_PILOT]

I give up.........

 

[FLYLOW22]

There is no valid argument for not letting an FO fly every other leg, unless your procedural and regulatory guidance calls for it. (Special airport, monitored approach, etc.) When it occurs, a good Captain will make sure that the FO does not get "cheated" out of their flying. (Giving them another leg to make up for the one they lost.)

You might not be a NetJets pilot if you share the above opinion.

Generally, I will absolutely alternate legs. Occasionally, I will take the next leg depending on the circumstances.

ie...

*Coral Reef Club,

*Aspen on a busy and poor weather day,

*Landing at a back-woods short runway airport on a slick and rainy day with gusty winds.

We don't routinely operate to or from anywhere. We do fly to some airports in higher concentrations, but not with regularity (TEB, PBI, MDW, etc.). There is no opportunity for NJ crews to develop "familiarity" at several airports like a 121 pilot can.

Type rating or not, it's safer for a pilot to see someone else operating in challenging airport environments 1st before taking the controls and operating in them personally (IMHO). This isn't a MAN contest. This is a customer service job.

NJ does not sell "minimum certifications" (FAA APPROVED) to our Owners. NetJets sells higher standards to our Owners in the interests of safety and comfort. It's those couple of notches above "legal" that our Owners pay for and receive. It's called "polish" and we love to give it.

And this isn't a "beat up on the SIC" practice. NetJets doesn't release Captains directly to the line following UPG training for just this reason. New PICs fly as a PSIC for a period of months until they develop a solid operational experience base former from experience, not simulation.

Again, this is a company cultural phenomenon based on saefty and comfort... "polish". It's not a "man contest".

 

[o2bflyn]

I can't believe this thread is still going.

 

[say again]

Right now, just put me in a seat, Could care less whether or not I get to manipulate the controls. Unemployment sucks, and so does finding a job.

 

[FrontierFan]

You might not be a NetJets pilot if you share the above opinion.

Generally, I will absolutely alternate legs. Occasionally, I will take the next leg depending on the circumstances.

ie...

*Coral Reef Club,

*Aspen on a busy and poor weather day,

*Landing at a back-woods short runway airport on a slick and rainy day with gusty winds.

We don't routinely operate to or from anywhere. We do fly to some airports in higher concentrations, but not with regularity (TEB, PBI, MDW, etc.). There is no opportunity for NJ crews to develop "familiarity" at several airports like a 121 pilot can.

Type rating or not, it's safer for a pilot to see someone else operating in challenging airport environments 1st before taking the controls and operating in them personally (IMHO). This isn't a MAN contest. This is a customer service job.

NJ does not sell "minimum certifications" (FAA APPROVED) to our Owners. NetJets sells higher standards to our Owners in the interests of safety and comfort. It's those couple of notches above "legal" that our Owners pay for and receive. It's called "polish" and we love to give it.

And this isn't a "beat up on the SIC" practice. NetJets doesn't release Captains directly to the line following UPG training for just this reason. New PICs fly as a PSIC for a period of months until they develop a solid operational experience base former from experience, not simulation.

Again, this is a company cultural phenomenon based on saefty and comfort... "polish". It's not a "man contest".

Could not have said it better myself.

 

[glasspilot]

I give up.........

I thought I made a very valid point. All you can come up with is "I give up"?

Let's try again. Why do FO's ever need to sit in the left seat?

If the company wants to type everyone then fine. Type 'em. But why do they have to stay current forcing extra evaluation and proficiency from the left seat during recurrent? Just type them so NetJets can advertise fully typed crews and then let them stay in the right seat until upgrade. The only practical reason I can think of was two FOs repositioning an aircraft and you scoffed at that idea. Why I'm not sure as they are freaking TYPED in the damn plane! Why would you care if two FOs who are TYPED flew together?!?!?

So how about you put away your ego and attitude and come up with an answer?