NetJets' Captains need to get over themselves!

[Captain Morgan]

I'll chime in and defend Porter because I know what it can be like to be told to sling the gear and tune the radios exclusively. It's one of the reasons I left a part 91 corporate flight department. Some of us like to fly and love having hands on control of the aircraft on a regular basis. With regards to people like us, the "you get paid as PF or PNF" line doesn't fly so to speak. Somethings aren't worth the money. If you like to be a paid passenger, maybe this is ok with you. Some of us, it's not. If you want to be paid and just sit there looking out of a window, maybe you should get a job at the top of a skyscraper with a window view, otherwise walk a mile in someone elses shoes who values flying more than just a job with a great view.

 

[flyipilot]

To the Gold Seal weenies...

"Those that can, do.

Those that can't, teach.

Those that can't teach, evaluate."

If you're a gold sealer and proud enough of it to expect special treatment like automatic trust from day one then you might be a dork.

I've seen guys with tens of thousands of hours in heavy equipment that fly horrible. I've seen guys with relatively little time fly great. I treat every FO equal and I distrust your flying skill until I see it. It usually takes a taxi out to know but I'm gonna see ya fly once before you get the live legs, period. Gold Seal or not.

Those are some strong words from a guy whose job is to fly celebs and the well to do around on planes when they have never flown with you or your FO. If you do not trust your FO without flying with him, what makes you think your passengers should? I think we have ALL proven ourselves to the people who count and matter the most....our company. They pay us and made the determination that we are all dependable and trustworthy enough to hand us a plane worth millions. Not to mention their customers lives. I for one have nothing to prove to any capt. I do my proving every 12 months as you do to this company and the FAA.

Not to mention you board an airliner at least once a week and have no clue who is flying the plane, and their experience level. So, that being said do you still call yourself a "dork" since you "automatically" trust them from day one?

 

[golfkilo]

Lighten up Francis.

I have been at NJs for about 3 yrs. I only fly empty legs, from the left seat, by choice. All of my flying for the past 15 yrs is from the left seat, so I just feel more comfortable there.

Typically the passenger flights are the longer flights, so I would just assume talk on the radios. The ferry flights are shorter, and therefore busier. I would rather fly that and let the captain bust his a$$.

At this point, you have a career job. You get paid the same. So enjoy the company of the ATC controller to talk to.

Yeah, lighten up Francis!!! If you're as young as you say you are, you'll have plenty of Captain years ahead of you to fly "real people". Enjoy where you are, don't take company policy personally, and remember, there are a ton of us who'd like to be in your shoes no matter what seat we're sitting in.

 

[lowspeed]

I see what glass is saying. The FO is not going to get the phone call when a passenger bitchs about a crazy ride. I take no offense in a capt. feeling me out first. Plus flying empty is more fun.

 

[Willy21]

Why would flying empty be any different than flying with passengers?

 

[gunfyter]

Why would flying empty be any different than flying with passengers?

exactly. So why are we talking about it?

 

[RNObased]

I have flown 10 different turbine aircraft, upgraded to Captain 3 times over at 3 different 135 operations (once in a different jet). I am a Gold Seal flight instructor (CFII, MEI) who is an expert on teaching and performing such "advanced" flying techniques as the "dreaded" crosswind landing. I have flown all over the country around some of the worst weather imaginable and had to make tough decisions. In other words, this is not my first rodeo.

NetJets hired me because they had confidence in my experience and my abilities. I passed training and IOE with flying colors. I'm pretty sure I've impressed (as have many others hired at NetJets and other companies) my Captains that I've flown with every time. I am "young" in the scheme of things with a lot of career ahead of me, which I suspect is causing some unfair prejudging from some of you "advanced" in years folks.

I haven't confronted anyone about it yet because It hasn't been necessary. Before about a month ago there were enough ferry legs that I just didn't care. Lately however there are more and more back to back passenger legs. I had 3 back to back pax legs today alone. Every time we get to the before takeoff brief, the Captain (who hasn't "seen" me fly yet to "see" if he thinks I am good enough) once again utters the familiar words, "Left seat takeoff.....", meaning once again it ain't my turn.

This is absurd. The egos at this place are amazing!!! Are you serious? Airline pilots fly pax legs and landings on IOE for craps sake! What is the deal. Yes I have the balls. Yes I am going to say something. The bottom line is I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO!!!!! It is an insult that you guys think your colleagues don't have "the right stuff". We've already passed the 4 phases of the interview, the training, and the IOE Captain's recommendation. Having said that we've already "payed our dues" and "been there and done that" when we get to NetJets. Get off your high horses!!!!

The ONLY time a First Officer shouldn't be flying EVERY OTHER LEG is if it is discussed before hand and the particular FO expresses that he is not comfortable because of how he feels about his OWN experience, OR the Captain decides to use his PIC authority and SPECIFICALLY briefs to his FO the reason why he is taking the leg. The Captain should have to make a case for it in other words if he is going to exercise his authority in this way. Even so, in my opinion, we are all the best judge of our own abilities. Most of us are not going to try to be heroes and will communicate that to our Captain's at that time. Give us the benefit of the doubt!

Many times over I hear the familiar question, "How long have you been here." I tell them and very often hear something condescending like, "Ohh, a newby." As If I just soloed the day before. Once on a ferry leg during a very gusty maximum component crosswind landing I had a Captain ask me this question on short final. After answering he put his hand up to the yoke and feet near the rudder pedals. It was insulting. I don't care who you are it was. He started to sweat as I greased it on and executed my SOP's perfectly.

You guys are going to have (and have had this year) a lot of new pilots coming into this company. Show some respect for where we came from and what it took to get here!!! Most of us hired this year were the top 20-30% of our classes. The cream of the crop!

We are on probation and therefore obviously fear retribution or getting on the "wrong" list. We shouldn't have to feel that way. Somebody needs to address this.

I am not alone in feeling this way specifically about the Captain's at NJ. There have been other threads.

Anyway, I'm done. Let the flaming begin.

Ok, I heard about this thread on the union website, where it should have been addressed in the first place, you coward. But then we would know your name now won't we. So this is easy way to whine isn't it.

I'm very impressed with your "Gold Seal" as I'm sure the capts you fly with are. Do you still wear your high school letterman's jacket around also. But a gold seal in a baron has very little to do with flying jets.

Young has nothing to do with it. We have had guys who were barely old enough to shave flying over the North Atlantic so that isn't it. I'm guessing by the attitude you put forth in your post that it is something about YOU that makes the capts nervous. Maybe you need to stop pointing fingers and look in the mirror oh great one.

If you don't like the capts at NJA, I'm sure you would enjoy them at some awesome 135 gig somewhere. God, what a whinny pile you are.

 

[lowspeed]

Why would flying empty be any different than flying with passengers?

I dunno maybe because its more relaxed, normally its a short hop so you dont have to work as hard as the PNF on the radios. The airplanes light so you get better performance. I just tend to enjoy it more.

 

[B727FA]

I take no offense in a capt. feeling me out first.

Just don't feel me up, first!

 

[Cavpilot]

exactly. So why are we talking about it?

Because it happens. I'm willing to guess it has very little to do with flying ability and everything to do with ego and control. I one time flew co-captain as the junior guy. My partner told me he was going to fly all the pax legs. When I suggested that we just take turns and let the chips fall, he insisted that he was going to fly all the pax legs. Now bear in mind that this guy was less than 100 numbers senior to me and I was an IOE Captain at the time.

I just laughed it off. In the big scheme of things its really not that big of a deal. Some guys are just tools.