Net jets scab pilot negotiator

[pilotyip]

I highly recommend you get a copy of "Confessions of a Union Buster". It may help, and remember what company JH's daddy runs.

Has anyone written the "Confessions of a Company Buster" yet?

 

[realityman]

I am not trying to divide anybody. I am only discussing the shoddy treatment of pilots who cross the line versus the non shoddy way people like me treat strikers. Nobody yet here has answered me at all about that. To treat "scabs" the way union folks do is an absolute disgrace. The failure to upbraid fellow union members for behaving that way is disgraceful too. I am not slamming unions, just the terrible way union members treat anyone who crosses the line or who dares to disagree with the union consensus.

No, you don't get it.

Whether you want to be or not, you are in the union now. The ONLY way we get anything accomplished is as a cohesive group.

I certainly hope that it NEVER comes to a strike. In spite of what many anti-union folks may think, we most certainly do not WANT a strike. It's not good for business, and certainly isn't good, in the short term, for the pilots.

However, should it come to a strike, it only works out if the vast majority of the pilots participate.

Which brings us to why scabs are treated so shoddily by everyone else. All those issues you mentioned that would make it difficult for you to strike? Well guess what? A lot of the pilots who will be striking have the same or similar issues. Yet they will be out there walking the line. The problem is, that every pilot who crosses the picket line to continue flying is allowing the company to operate a little longer before coming back to the negotiating table. So all those pilots with the strength to strike even while under terrible financial stress will now have to stick it out even longer because scabs are helping only themselves and the company. A scab is undermining the greatest leverage the union has to use. And even folks who aren't supporting sick relatives will still feel the pain during the strike (unless they were able to prepare beforehand), and scabs will force them to feel the pain even longer.

The worst part is, if the striking union pilots are successful, the scabs will enjoy the same increase in compensation as those who did the work, took the risk, and felt the pain. While I hope it never comes to a strike, if it does, and we ultimately get a great CBA from it, will you refuse the extra compensation because you didn't participate in the strike?

I am one of the people supporting sick relatives. My own family is growing, and while I think I'm dong a great job managing my finances, I really don't have a lot of extra to save. A strike would be VERY hard on me financially. But I will NOT cross the picket line. I will be out there walking circles with my fellow pilots trying to get a better CBA. Anyone who actively participates in making that an even harder job than it'll already be is going to earn a huge amount of derision and hatred from me.

Do you honestly not understand why scabs are treated so poorly? All of your posts are about YOU. How hard it would be for YOU. A union is about the group. If the group sticks together, better things can be accomplished for the individuals that make up that group. If it's fractured, the accomplishments will be diminished. If I, and many others, make huge sacrifices to try for a better CBA, and scabs actively undermine us, you better believe they deserve to be treated poorly!

As to why wouldn't you treat strikers poorly? Let me think. Could it be because if we are successful YOU will benefit greatly? Why on earth would you treat anyone poorly who is trying to make things better for you?

So yes, generally speaking, scabs don't have a lot of reason to hate strikers. They get the best of both worlds: still working and making money while others do the hard part to secure a better CBA, and then enjoying the benefits of that CBA. While strikers absolutely hate scabs: they put it all on the line, even folks with difficult home situations, so everyone can enjoy a better CBA, even the scabs.

I know you don't want to be in the union, and don't like it. Fine. But if you can't see how actively undermining the union's greatest leverage would earn you lifelong hate, then I can't help you.

 

[Pervis]

Has anyone written the "Confessions of a Company Buster" yet?

Maybe Frank Lorenzo?

 

[OPECJet]

Great post, and thanks for the civil tone and content. Remember I was only talking about striking, and the way non strikers are treated for the rest of their careers. Not about collective bargaining, although I prefer individual bargaining. By the way, if a strike happened, I would have to cross the line, as my career before NJA was so terrible I would not be able to afford to stop working. No way I could make it through a strike, unless it was really short. A very sick wife and relatives needing assistance don't go away because the group wants to draw a line. I would have NO choice but to cross. Let's hope it never comes to that.

I genuinely wish your wife the best. Prayers will be sent your way.

Please understand many of the pilots at NJA will be in similar boats and will have to make the same decision. History shows many will honor the picket line. When a pilot crosses that picket line he sends a message to his fellow pilots that the cause they have placed their careers on the line for is not a worthy one. It proves to his fellow pilots on strike that he cannot be counted on in times of great stress. If I'm walking behind you, you trip, crack open your head and are bleeding / disoriented / sprawled out on the sidewalk, what does it say about me if I don't get involved and help you when you need it? Extreme example, but I think you catch my drift.

This strike talk is very premature. If the pilot group strikes it's the end of NJA. Both sides know it. The owners know it and I can't see them watching Hansell or Buffett allow their assets to disintigrate overnight. There are too many stake holders for the ultimate outcome to be unfavorable to the pilot group. We won't get everything we want out of negotiations, but we won't come out as big losers either.

Outside of the cockpit I think individual bargaining is fine. At a large aircraft operator it seems it would be difficult. You have 2500 pilots doing the same exact job. You have a company that is bottom line driven. Collective bargaining when done correctly serves both party's interests fairly well. Right now there's no reason to think this next agreement won't be done correctly, although the starting positions of each are going to be far apart, and as a result it's going to be ugly for a while.

 

[realityman]

This strike talk is very premature. If the pilot group strikes it's the end of NJA. Both sides know it. The owners know it and I can't see them watching Hansell or Buffett allow their assets to disintigrate overnight. There are too many stake holders for the ultimate outcome to be unfavorable to the pilot group. We won't get everything we want out of negotiations, but we won't come out as big losers either.

I think this is spot on.

There will be no strike.

Nevertheless, we must be ready to do it if necessary. I don't think a strike is something to bluff about. So management comes on here and sees us writing things like "We won't really strike", and that also reduces our leverage. I'm not suggesting YOU are reducing our leverage, just stating that the strike vote shouldn't be a bluff. And I don't think it will be. Hopefully management will understand this.

But G4 wanted to know why strikers hate scabs so much. Whether we strike or not, I think he was just looking for a little education on the feelings involved.

I hope he has a little better understanding now.

 

[jetlag7]

I think this is spot on.

There will be no strike.

Nevertheless, we must be ready to do it if necessary. I don't think a strike is something to bluff about. So management comes on here and sees us writing things like "We won't really strike", and that also reduces our leverage. I'm not suggesting YOU are reducing our leverage, just stating that the strike vote shouldn't be a bluff. And I don't think it will be. Hopefully management will understand this.

But G4 wanted to know why strikers hate scabs so much. Whether we strike or not, I think he was just looking for a little education on the feelings involved.

I hope he has a little better understanding now.

I don't know of anyone who would bluff about something as serious as a strike.

In my circle of acquaintances and colleagues, every one of us is already prepared financially and emotionally should things go south, but not a single person I know hopes we have to pursue that course of action.

Every time labor and management sit across the table from one another, it is always a real possibility... Regardless of personal opinions on the matter, the maxim "hope for the best, but prepare for the worst" applies.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I think this is spot on.

There will be no strike.

Nevertheless, we must be ready to do it if necessary. I don't think a strike is something to bluff about. So management comes on here and sees us writing things like "We won't really strike", and that also reduces our leverage. I'm not suggesting YOU are reducing our leverage, just stating that the strike vote shouldn't be a bluff. And I don't think it will be. Hopefully management will understand this.

But G4 wanted to know why strikers hate scabs so much. Whether we strike or not, I think he was just looking for a little education on the feelings involved.

I hope he has a little better understanding now.

Which is EXACTLY why I urge every pilot I know in my fleet, especially the ones I know who HATE the union, to vote YES if/when the strike authorization vote occurs. An overwhelming YES vote will be the best way to AVOID a strike and forge a deal that will benefit EVERYBODY.

 

[G4dude]

I'm not into vendettas or keeping "lists" (unlike one particular wood-headed union member ) but you'll have to be prepared to deal with the fallout from plenty who will.

In the meantime, can I count on you to vote "YES" on a strike vote? Like I said, it's the best way to AVOID a strike.

I never thought about how a strong strike vote could avoid a strike. Hmmm. Gotta think about that, gutshot. You are persuasive as always, amigo. Count me as a probable yes.

 

[G4dude]

I think this is spot on.

There will be no strike.

Nevertheless, we must be ready to do it if necessary. I don't think a strike is something to bluff about. So management comes on here and sees us writing things like "We won't really strike", and that also reduces our leverage. I'm not suggesting YOU are reducing our leverage, just stating that the strike vote shouldn't be a bluff. And I don't think it will be. Hopefully management will understand this.

But G4 wanted to know why strikers hate scabs so much. Whether we strike or not, I think he was just looking for a little education on the feelings involved.

I hope he has a little better understanding now.

Yes I do understand better, thanks. But my question remains. Even with understanding why union strikers disagree with scabs, I don't understand the hatred, and deplore the awful behavior, the intimidation and harassment. And don't understand why every decent person does not come out and say this. Even Gutshotdraw, who is one of my favorite people at NJA, doesn't seem to deplore the harassment, merely stating that it is to be expected.

 

[imacdog]

When you scab it means you're turning your back on your fellow colleagues. No one likes a colleague that does that. It really doesn't get any simpler than that.

 

[realityman]

Yes I do understand better, thanks. But my question remains. Even with understanding why union strikers disagree with scabs, I don't understand the hatred, and deplore the awful behavior, the intimidation and harassment. And don't understand why every decent person does not come out and say this. Even Gutshotdraw, who is one of my favorite people at NJA, doesn't seem to deplore the harassment, merely stating that it is to be expected.

Did you read the big long post I made prior to the one you quoted?

I thought I laid it out fairly well.

Okay, imagine that you have to dig a large, deep hole. It's you and a bunch of your buddies out there with nothing but shovels and your own muscle power to get the job done in the scorching summer sun. The job should only take a week. But while you're digging, a smaller group of people show up and begin throwing dirt back in the hole.

Now it takes you an extra three days. Yeah, the job got done. But what will your opinion be of the people up top who were working to slow you down, whether that was their final goal or not? You going to buy them a beer and say "Well, let's let bygones be bygones"? And will you feel even more kindly to them when you find out that they will enjoy the benefits of the hole you dug (whatever those benefits are) even though they did their best to slow, or stop, your progress? Will you feel forgiving to them because one or two of them did what they did because they have sick family members? Even if you and some of your buddies who were trying to dig the hole also have sick family members? What excuses will you accept?

Anyway, please reread my first post. If you are still coming away from it asking "Why the hate and shoddy treatment?" then you're intentionally missing the reason(s).

 

[Semore Butts]

Reality man......Nailed it!!

I doubt you will change his mind.

But at least you have the satisfaction of knowing that you are doing more towards the welfare of G4's family than he is.

1 yes vote here to strike, no Global FO bid from me, and no Phenom CPT.

Thank all of you guys for trying.
Semore

(Saving every dime I can in preparation)

 

[imacdog]

1 yes vote here to strike, no Global FO bid from me, and no Phenom CPT.

So what's the story on having to mention this?

 

[brokeflyer]

Has anyone written the "Confessions of a Company Buster" yet?

yes, "management 101"

 

[gutshotdraw]

Did you read the big long post I made prior to the one you quoted?

I thought I laid it out fairly well.

Okay, imagine that you have to dig a large, deep hole. It's you and a bunch of your buddies out there with nothing but shovels and your own muscle power to get the job done in the scorching summer sun. The job should only take a week. But while you're digging, a smaller group of people show up and begin throwing dirt back in the hole.

Now it takes you an extra three days. Yeah, the job got done. But what will your opinion be of the people up top who were working to slow you down, whether that was their final goal or not? You going to buy them a beer and say "Well, let's let bygones be bygones"? And will you feel even more kindly to them when you find out that they will enjoy the benefits of the hole you dug (whatever those benefits are) even though they did their best to slow, or stop, your progress? Will you feel forgiving to them because one or two of them did what they did because they have sick family members? Even if you and some of your buddies who were trying to dig the hole also have sick family members? What excuses will you accept?

Anyway, please reread my first post. If you are still coming away from it asking "Why the hate and shoddy treatment?" then you're intentionally missing the reason(s).

That's a great analogy. I would only add that G4 doesn't have to help dig the hole if he disagrees with digging it (ie: don't walk a picket line, etc.). But don't shovel dirt in top of the others (ie: cross a picket line).