Net jets scab pilot negotiator

[G4dude]

At least the union types don't pretend to be anything but who they really are.

You are right about that.

 

[Hogprint]

We really don't need them to come out of the woodwork this time around.

They have so many carrying the water for them already...

 

[Sparse]

(for example: when the Continental pilot group joined ALPA a few years ago, there were a small group of scabs on their seniority list)

A few??

 

[G4dude]

I don't get it. if a union pilot decides to leave his job and walk a picket line, nobody hates him for life and puts him on a list. But if a pilot crosses the line to do his job, disagreeing with the union, look what happens. And then the union has the temerity to accuse that peaceful, non coercing pilot of being immoral and selfish and evil, for the rest of his career. I just don't understand it at all. Strike if you want, I won't mistreat you. Why don't you extend the same courtesy to a scab? Which I have not been, by the way.

 

[Pervis]

How many more are going to let this troll attempt to further his FUD campaign in a blatant attempt to divide us, even in public? For those that just don't get it, please, just don't vote.

 

[OPECJet]

I don't get it. if a union pilot decides to leave his job and walk a picket line, nobody hates him for life and puts him on a list. But if a pilot crosses the line to do his job, disagreeing with the union, look what happens. And then the union has the temerity to accuse that peaceful, non coercing pilot of being immoral and selfish and evil, for the rest of his career. I just don't understand it at all. Strike if you want, I won't mistreat you. Why don't you extend the same courtesy to a scab? Which I have not been, by the way.

I think your definition of "union" needs adjusting. The union isn't a few guys with suits being the face of the pilot group. It IS the pilot group. When a pilot chooses to cross a picket line he is sending a message to all involved that low pay, crap work rules, unprofessional treatment, etc are perfectly fine. Thank you, sir, may I have another...

From your posts I believe you've led a sheltered aviation life. By that I mean the first large company you've worked for is NJA. You've never gotten a beatdown by airline management trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. Good on you, and I mean that. You've made good career decisions that led you away from the crap that makes this career stink. Many of your brethren at NJA have worked in airlines that were mismanaged, and then expected that the workforce would take it in the shorts for piss poor decisions made in the board room. Few will stand by and watch NJA go down the same road without putting up a fight. Make no mistake that NJASAP wants NJA to remain a profitable and growing entity. Profit and growth are what advances the career. That career however must be worth getting in the airplane for.

 

[jetlag7]

I think your definition of "union" needs adjusting. The union isn't a few guys with suits being the face of the pilot group. It IS the pilot group. When a pilot chooses to cross a picket line he is sending a message to all involved that low pay, crap work rules, unprofessional treatment, etc are perfectly fine. Thank you, sir, may I have another...

From your posts I believe you've led a sheltered aviation life. By that I mean the first large company you've worked for is NJA. You've never gotten a beatdown by airline management trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. Good on you, and I mean that. You've made good career decisions that led you away from the crap that makes this career stink. Many of your brethren at NJA have worked in airlines that were mismanaged, and then expected that the workforce would take it in the shorts for piss poor decisions made in the board room. Few will stand by and watch NJA go down the same road without putting up a fight. Make no mistake that NJASAP wants NJA to remain a profitable and growing entity. Profit and growth are what advances the career. That career however must be worth getting in the airplane for.

:thumbup: Nailed it!

 

[gret]

:thumbup: Nailed it!

ditto...very nicely put...classy

 

[chief9404]

Spot on. Its amazing how many pilots out there place their trust in mgt. Its mind boggling.

I think your definition of "union" needs adjusting. The union isn't a few guys with suits being the face of the pilot group. It IS the pilot group. When a pilot chooses to cross a picket line he is sending a message to all involved that low pay, crap work rules, unprofessional treatment, etc are perfectly fine. Thank you, sir, may I have another...

From your posts I believe you've led a sheltered aviation life. By that I mean the first large company you've worked for is NJA. You've never gotten a beatdown by airline management trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. Good on you, and I mean that. You've made good career decisions that led you away from the crap that makes this career stink. Many of your brethren at NJA have worked in airlines that were mismanaged, and then expected that the workforce would take it in the shorts for piss poor decisions made in the board room. Few will stand by and watch NJA go down the same road without putting up a fight. Make no mistake that NJASAP wants NJA to remain a profitable and growing entity. Profit and growth are what advances the career. That career however must be worth getting in the airplane for.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I don't get it. if a union pilot decides to leave his job and walk a picket line, nobody hates him for life and puts him on a list. But if a pilot crosses the line to do his job, disagreeing with the union, look what happens. And then the union has the temerity to accuse that peaceful, non coercing pilot of being immoral and selfish and evil, for the rest of his career. I just don't understand it at all. Strike if you want, I won't mistreat you. Why don't you extend the same courtesy to a scab? Which I have not been, by the way.

Hey amigo, I know you and a few others of our mutual acquaintance are pretty adamant about never going on strike should it come to that. I'm not going to waste time trying to convince you otherwise. But, if we get there and you do cross a picket line, two things will happen:

1) Right or wrong, you WILL be branded forever as a scab and be forced to endure the remainder of your career as a pariah. It's NOT a pretty picture.

2) The company will survive or fail based on the economy, the sales team, the business model, and the EMT's decisions. NOT the pilot pay and benefits.

I WILL try to convince you and the others of one thing, however. If and when the union holds a strike authorization vote, the best way to AVOID a strike is to vote YES!!! Even if you have no intention of crossing the line, VOTING as if you would strike will go a long way toward convincing CMH to NOT RISK pushing us that far. Imagine the impact on JH and company if the strike vote comes back in the high 90's. THAT would go a long way toward securing a deal where the company AND the crews come out ahead.

This ain't Okatie anymore amigo. Take care of your customer, your crew, yourself, and your airplane. In THAT order. Let the company take care of itself.

 

[G4dude]

Hey amigo, I know you and a few others of our mutual acquaintance are pretty adamant about never going on strike should it come to that. I'm not going to waste time trying to convince you otherwise. But, if we get there and you do cross a picket line, two things will happen:

1) Right or wrong, you WILL be branded forever as a scab and be forced to endure the remainder of your career as a pariah. It's NOT a pretty picture.

2) The company will survive or fail based on the economy, the sales team, the business model, and the EMT's decisions. NOT the pilot pay and benefits.

I WILL try to convince you and the others of one thing, however. If and when the union holds a strike authorization vote, the best way to AVOID a strike is to vote YES!!! Even if you have no intention of crossing the line, VOTING as if you would strike will go a long way toward convincing CMH to NOT RISK pushing us that far. Imagine the impact on JH and company if the strike vote comes back in the high 90's. THAT would go a long way toward securing a deal where the company AND the crews come out ahead.

This ain't Okatie anymore amigo. Take care of your customer, your crew, yourself, and your airplane. In THAT order. Let the company take care of itself.

I get it. My point was, and I will try to iterate it again, is that those of us would not strike don't keep a list of strikers and attempt to harass them for the rest of their careers.But the strikers would do exactly that to us. Don't y'all see the difference in behavior?

 

[G4dude]

I think your definition of "union" needs adjusting. The union isn't a few guys with suits being the face of the pilot group. It IS the pilot group. When a pilot chooses to cross a picket line he is sending a message to all involved that low pay, crap work rules, unprofessional treatment, etc are perfectly fine. Thank you, sir, may I have another...

From your posts I believe you've led a sheltered aviation life. By that I mean the first large company you've worked for is NJA. You've never gotten a beatdown by airline management trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. Good on you, and I mean that. You've made good career decisions that led you away from the crap that makes this career stink. Many of your brethren at NJA have worked in airlines that were mismanaged, and then expected that the workforce would take it in the shorts for piss poor decisions made in the board room. Few will stand by and watch NJA go down the same road without putting up a fight. Make no mistake that NJASAP wants NJA to remain a profitable and growing entity. Profit and growth are what advances the career. That career however must be worth getting in the airplane for.

Great post, and thanks for the civil tone and content. Remember I was only talking about striking, and the way non strikers are treated for the rest of their careers. Not about collective bargaining, although I prefer individual bargaining. By the way, if a strike happened, I would have to cross the line, as my career before NJA was so terrible I would not be able to afford to stop working. No way I could make it through a strike, unless it was really short. A very sick wife and relatives needing assistance don't go away because the group wants to draw a line. I would have NO choice but to cross. Let's hope it never comes to that.

 

[G4dude]

How many more are going to let this troll attempt to further his FUD campaign in a blatant attempt to divide us, even in public? For those that just don't get it, please, just don't vote.

I am not trying to divide anybody. I am only discussing the shoddy treatment of pilots who cross the line versus the non shoddy way people like me treat strikers. Nobody yet here has answered me at all about that. To treat "scabs" the way union folks do is an absolute disgrace. The failure to upbraid fellow union members for behaving that way is disgraceful too. I am not slamming unions, just the terrible way union members treat anyone who crosses the line or who dares to disagree with the union consensus.

 

[Pervis]

I am not trying to divide anybody. I am only discussing the shoddy treatment of pilots who cross the line versus the non shoddy way people like me treat strikers. Nobody yet here has answered me at all about that. To treat "scabs" the way union folks do is an absolute disgrace. The failure to upbraid fellow union members for behaving that way is disgraceful too. I am not slamming unions, just the terrible way union members treat anyone who crosses the line or who dares to disagree with the union consensus.

Forgive the lack of clarity-I wasn't refering to you G4. The origional poster and those like him will spend millions to save a buck from us and love any discontent within our group's ranks. I understand your perception of the treatment of scabs, but you need to understand the mindset of those of us who see the efforts by this or any EMT for what they truely are. You really think JH is your friend? He could care less about you and would fire you and all of us in a heart beat if he could automate the cockpit.

Their superiors see them saving a buck, not for how they treat their fellow employees, and they try to do just that on our backs. They refuse to see that the value or worth of happy employees is far greater than their short term view of the bottom dollar. We're nothing but an evil necessity in their eyes, and I'm not talking about the union, but rather all the employees. Just look at how we're rated by those that truely matter-our owners. If only our EMT held the same view.

I highly recommend you get a copy of "Confessions of a Union Buster". It may help, and remember what company JH's daddy runs.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I get it. My point was, and I will try to iterate it again, is that those of us would not strike don't keep a list of strikers and attempt to harass them for the rest of their careers.But the strikers would do exactly that to us. Don't y'all see the difference in behavior?

I'm not into vendettas or keeping "lists" (unlike one particular wood-headed union member ) but you'll have to be prepared to deal with the fallout from plenty who will.

In the meantime, can I count on you to vote "YES" on a strike vote? Like I said, it's the best way to AVOID a strike.