Net Jets Gateway Cities

[Outta Here]

But have you also heard B.O. say many times that things are changing day to day even hour to hour. Why Not wait until OCT.1st

 

[Dr Pepper]

I am all for reading on Oct 1st. '08 sounds like the beginnings of the legal action in regards to NJI, but how does that address NJE and the future NetJets creations? My point - if you don't read about scope on 1 Oct, don't forget about it.

 

[Q Service]

Tell me where its at in the FOM, otherwise I will be taking you to the CPs office for harrassment.

FOM Section 4.4.1​

Routine Aircraft Cleaning

​

– The Pilot-in-Command is responsible for the aircraft condition and shall keep the aircraft as clean as possible. Prior to leaving the aircraft, the crew will complete the interior cleaning and insure the aircraft is in a “ready to go” condition.


Jackass

​

 

[netjetwife]

2008 perhaps. Unfortunately B.O. said flatly at last weeks meeting that scope would be unchanged in the '07 IBB.

PG, I do believe that was meant as a reassurance that scope would not be weakened in the IBB proposal. NJ pilots have one of the best scope clauses in the industry. I'm surprised that some seem to think that those involved in IBB are less concerned now about scope than they were in 2005. Just because they aren't at liberty to report every conversation taking place at the bargaining table doesn't mean that an issue isn't being discussed. Furthermore, it's a safe bet that they are every bit as concerned with job security as the next pilot and have more of the inside scoop when it comes to the company's plans for the future. My husband isn't worried about scope.

My family hopes that the spirit of unity that gave us the bypass pay bid (as always, thanks guys!) will again prove that the NJ pilots do believe a Union's role is to work together as a group to achieve overall improvements to the contract. The most junior pilots are still underpaid and their QOL is lagging behind. My family is doing what we can to change that. We view a solid pay raise and 100 bases as progress for the Union. Those who think otherwise ought to step forward and volunteer their time and energy. I suggest that it's not as easy as you think and takes much more sacrifice of personal time than most are willing to give.

Hoping for the best,
Netjetwife

 

[Diesel]

My husband isn't worried about scope.

He should be. Or we could just ask him.

We view a solid pay raise and 100 bases as progress for the Union.

Sorry sometimes it just isn't about the union but about the pilots.

Those who think otherwise ought to step forward and volunteer their time and energy. I suggest that it's not as easy as you think and takes much more sacrifice of personal time than most are willing to give.

Right but its still a volunteer army.

 

[netjetwife]

I thought NJ pilots equated the pilot group with the Union. To clarify, my family uses the two words interchangeably--even the kids. We are thinking about the pilots, especially those who are underpaid and have to commute and/or live in a location not of their choosing.

There's a difference between remaining vigilant and viewing an issue as an immediate threat. It's my observation that those in the know aren't sounding the alarm over scope. That suggests that their insight is based on IBB and/or interaction with upper management.

To use the volunteer army analogy, my husband is currently up at the front. You can ask him his opinion about scope, but this is crunch time and distractions aren't in the best interest of the group. From the NJ board it appears that the "marching orders" are: be patient, keep the faith, and read the entire document. Considering the sacrifices that some families are making for the greater good, that's a small thing to ask. NJW

 

[Ultra Grump]

From the NJ board it appears that the "marching orders" are: be patient, keep the faith, and read the entire document.

Apparently, we don't have to.

We view a solid pay raise and 100 bases as progress for the Union. Those who think otherwise ought to step forward and volunteer their time and energy.

We should either vote yes, or run for office next time around. Right?

The most junior pilots are still underpaid and their QOL is lagging behind. My family is doing what we can to change that.

This kills me. I understand your support for your husband's union role, but what exactly is "your family" doing to change that?

 

[netjetwife]

...We should either vote yes, or run for office next time around. Right? ... but what exactly is "your family" doing to change that?

That's not quite what I said, UG. To be precise: We view a solid pay raise and 100 bases as progress for the Union. Those who think otherwise ought to step forward and volunteer their time and energy. I suggest that it's not as easy as you think and takes much more sacrifice of personal time than most are willing to give. My intended point is that it's easy to criticize the work of others from the comfort of your easy chair, but could you produce better results? If so, please help the group achieve the gains you're calling for. It isn't even necessary to run for office; there are plenty of volunteer positions on numerous committees. Common sense dictates that the larger the talent pool the easier it is to achieve the desired results. Certainly the risk of burn-out goes down when there are more helping to carry the load.

My family gives up lots of the together time all the pilots value highly, and we have been non-stop for the last few years. Additionally, my husband has lost income because of time away from the line. I am not complaining, mind you-- just explaining. I was satisfied with my post, but apparently you weren't. Your name is quite fitting, isn't it?... Ultra Grump... My sympathy to those disappointed by what they've seen from IBB--so far. NJW

 

[Diesel]

To be precise: We view a solid pay raise and 100 bases as progress for the Union.

Who is we? HBA's for all would be solid progress. We screwed up the first time around and now is a chance to either get it right or watch HBA's as a whole die a slow 5 year death. Because the 100 will be the final 100 in the end if we allow it.

My intended point is that it's easy to criticize the work of others from the comfort of your easy chair, but could you produce better results? If so, please help the group achieve the gains you're calling for. It isn't even necessary to run for office; there are plenty of volunteer positions on numerous committees. Common sense dictates that the larger the talent pool the easier it is to achieve the desired results.

Ahh yes the if you're not volunteering you shouldn't speak out. Hmmmm where else in our government have I heard that. insert jeopardy music.

Thats the beauty of 1 pilot 1 vote.

 

[Ultra Grump]

That's not quite what I said, UG.

It's pretty much exactly what you said. "Those who think otherwise ought to step forward and volunteer their time and energy." Pretty clear.

To be precise: We view a solid pay raise and 100 bases as progress for the Union. Those who think otherwise ought to step forward and volunteer their time and energy. I suggest that it's not as easy as you think and takes much more sacrifice of personal time than most are willing to give.

The underlined part is certainly true, but doesn't automatically qualify whatever the leadership puts out as "yes-worthy."

My intended point is that it's easy to criticize the work of others from the comfort of your easy chair, but could you produce better results?

Probably not, but it doesn't matter. I am not the one in a leadership position, with my wife on message boards acting as a cheerleader for this proposal.

If so, please help the group achieve the gains you're calling for. It isn't even necessary to run for office; there are plenty of volunteer positions on numerous committees.

I have volunteered time in the past, and may again in the future, although the beat-down some have gotten for not toeing the union line over the IBB gives me pause.

My family gives up lots of the together time all the pilots value highly, and we have been non-stop for the last few years. Additionally, my husband has lost income because of time away from the line.

Every pilot's family gives up time - it's the nature of the business. Your husband's choice to work in 1108 leadership has not resulted in a loss of income, any more than my decision not to bid the reserve schedule has resulted in a loss of income for me. It's a choice we both made, with the resulting salary implications. We both have the potential to earn more, but choose not to.

I am not complaining, mind you-- just explaining. I was satisfied with my post, but apparently you weren't. Your name is quite fitting, isn't it?... Ultra Grump...

Yep, sure is. Never been much of a rah-rah yes-man. Besides, if you spent much time in an Ultra, you'd be grumpy, too.

My sympathy to those disappointed by what they've seen from IBB--so far. NJW

Sympathy is unneeded and unwarranted. We'll see (or maybe not) on Oct 1 whether our disappointment is unfounded or not.

 

[netjetwife]

Who is we? Though others may have the same opinion, I am sharing the perspective from my family. HBA's for all would be solid progress. If the pilots could get everything they wanted from the company that would surely be at the top of the list. Unfortunately, that doesn't appear possible. We screwed up the first time around In 2005 I tried to get my husband to vote no because of the domicile system and the low FO pay. He tells me the company quit negotiating when they invoked the legally binding "best and final offer" phrase so that forced the vote. now is a chance to either get it right or watch HBA's as a whole die a slow 5 year death. This is a crystal ball question I see differently. Taking 100 bases now will give a huge QOL break to the post rat pilots and the group can still fight for HBAs for all when the contract becomes amendable. I think it would be easier that way because it would have been demonstrated that the 5 domiciles were an unnecessary restriction. Because the 100 will be the final 100 in the end if we allow it. That could already happen. The company can currently open up more domiciles and make the HBA pilots use them. The IBB proposal includes grandfathered rights to HBAs that will prevent that from happening. 100 bases and a guarantee to HBAs would provide a stronger position to fight from next time around.

Ahh yes the if you're not volunteering you shouldn't speak out.....

Please don't assign an opinion to me that I don't hold. I was encouraging others to participate more in the process (not less) and to actively work for the solutions they are proposing. I firmly believe that debate of the issues--by all involved (including family members)--is a good thing. Clearly apathy, evidenced by silence, is not.

 

[Wacopilot]

the Netjet folks that post over and over on this board make rest of us Netjet folks look like children..... Please represent our pilot group with a little more professionalism. We are not regional pilots.

J.H.
CE560XL

 

[netjetwife]

....The underlined part is certainly true, but doesn't automatically qualify whatever the leadership puts out as "yes-worthy."
Agreed. The definition of a good deal is always subjective. Leadership is tasked with balancing the interests of a large group with varying criteria--not an easy job.

...I am not the one in a leadership position, with my wife on message boards acting as a cheerleader for this proposal. One public message board where issues affecting my family are discussed.

I have volunteered time in the past, and may again in the future, although the beat-down some have gotten for not toeing the union line over the IBB gives me pause. Some posts brought a frown to my face as well. Active participation should be encouraged for everyone affected by the contract.

Every pilot's family gives up time - it's the nature of the business. True, but some give up their personal free time above and beyond what the job requires. I am pointing that out to give (at your request) examples of what my family has done to help the pilot group. My husband is gone from home even more and does Union business when he is home. Your husband's choice to work in 1108 leadership has not resulted in a loss of income, any more than my decision not to bid the reserve schedule has resulted in a loss of income for me. It's a choice we both made, with the resulting salary implications. We both have the potential to earn more, but choose not to. You're right that my husband could have refused to help the pilot group and would not have missed the holiday pay and OT he was scheduled to get. Now how did I know...Ultra Grump... you'd turn the concrete example you asked for (of my family helping the group) into a complaint? Luckily, for the NJ pilots those serving for the greater good are willing to make the sacrifice, but from my perspective more volunteers are needed to spread the work load and prevent those on the front line from ending up burned out.

Besides, if you spent much time in an Ultra, you'd be grumpy, too. I'd extend my sympathy but something tells me it wouldn't be welcome. Suffice it to say that I realize the cockpit is cramped and has no APU. Worse still, no TCAS. I was definitely against 5 yr seat locks. Sympathy is unneeded and unwarranted. Sorry Grumpy, I'll give it to someone else... We'll see (or maybe not) on Oct 1 whether our disappointment is unfounded or not.

It'd be great if every group in the Union were pleased but that doesn't seem possible when compromise is mandated. Therefore, I hope that an arrangement acceptable to the majority will be worked out this week. NJW

 

[RNObased]

It'd be great if every group in the Union were pleased but that doesn't seem possible when compromise is mandated. Therefore, I hope that an arrangement acceptable to the majority will be worked out this week. NJW

Yeah, if you mean a majority of 51% then things are looking good.....

 

[Diesel]

Heck you'd think that NJW was on the negotiating team or something.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Heck you'd think that NJW was on the negotiating team or something.

Too bad she's not. I'm sure the cookies would be better.....

 

[netjetwife]

It is my opinion that upper management has seen the power of positive reinforcement since the 2005 CBA was passed. I believe that RTS is smart enough to keep a good thing going. Considering how hard both sides have been working, surely they are able to put together a fair deal.

From my card shop....

http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=173646460&m=1932&rr=y&source=bma999

 

[TORCH67]

RTS is not looking for a fair deal! He is looking for the best deal for him and Warren! I like my job and respect the union, but I don't trust RTS to do the right thing yet!

 

[RNObased]

It is my opinion that upper management has seen the power of positive reinforcement since the 2005 CBA was passed. I believe that RTS is smart enough to keep a good thing going. Considering how hard both sides have been working, surely they are able to put together a fair deal.

From my card shop....

[URL="http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=173646460&m=1932&rr=y&source=bma999"]http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=173646460&m=1932&rr=y&source=bma999[/URL]

Fair for who???? Sounds like for the FOs and junior capts. If you have 6+ yrs or are a reserve guy, IOE,IP,CA it is a mess. They haven't thrown enough money at it to buy my vote.

 

[netjetwife]

RNO, how can you write it off before you even see it... Torch, the pilots are also looking for the best deal they can get. I didn't say RTS was playing Santa Claus, but obviously the pilot group has been working hard and 1108 isn't shy about pointing that out.

The idea is to work out a compromise that offers an improvement for both sides--overall. Last time around the most junior on the list did rather poorly. My first grader calls it taking turns... hint, hint. The Union has to pull their wages up closer to professional pay. They're also the group RTS is worried about losing so it shouldn't be a surprise if more money is targeted at them.

That said, I just don't see RTS wanting to go back to the days of unmotivated pilots, especially with the busy season fast approaching. Nor do I think that our side would let any segment of the pilot force go unrewarded for their hard work that helps bring in significant profits. The money is there and both sides want IBB to pass. I think they'll pull it off. I also think that after all the effort spent on IBB that neither side would be happy with it barely passing. Logic says that they know what it will take to get a respectable return for the invest of their time.