Net Jets Gateway Cities

[acaTerry]

The economy is dropping. Where will the economy be in 2010.

Uh... look a little closer. Turn off the drive-by media and look the financial pages. The economy is doing fine.

 

[Dr Pepper]

You may want to ask an IOE guy about some of those "quality people". Qualified...yes. Quality...sometimes.

Let us all be clear. There are bad PICs and there are bad SICs at all companies and at all levels of seniority. There are also plenty of great PICs and SICs. And there are those that are not overly terrible and not outstanding, they just get the job done. Each one of us gets to choose which one we want to be.

 

[Dr Pepper]

This is sooo far beyond opening up new bases.

I am sure that there are sooo many changes in this new contract that many people are going to find reasons to vote "PRO" and many reasons to vote "CON".

I am very interrested in the LOA's and the specific language associated with them. I'll be super critical for loopholes.

The PTO thing is another can of worms. There are numerous questions about this program that MUST be addressed before my "YES" vote is secured.

Seniority rights as it pertains to bidding.

Having to declare an alternative HBA and then having to use that HBA by 2010 has some really negative tones.

I also feel the Base Airport list, which is fixed at 100 right now, may be increased at the last minute to apease the masses.

Oh yeah.....and $$$$$.

I'm sure the message board discussion will shine a light on more of the Benefits and Pitfalls of this new contract. That's when my decision will be made.

I hope that everyone will not only read what is in this IBB, but what is not in it. SCOPE. This topic plays a huge role in potential earnings. No scope and a new amendable date could easily buy a no vote from me, despite me wanting relief from LAX. If we give a lot back now, what bargaining power will we retain in the next round to fix this growing problem.

 

[Guitar Guy]

I hope that everyone will not only read what is in this IBB, but what is not in it. SCOPE.

Just wait for 10/1. We'll see what all of the details are. And B.O. is on record as saying that his focus for 2008 is squarely on scope.

There's been a small hint by an MEC member that perhaps scope will be addressed in the proposal that we'll see on 10/1.

 

[Pugnacious G]

Just wait for 10/1. We'll see what all of the details are. And B.O. is on record as saying that his focus for 2008 is squarely on scope.

There's been a small hint by an MEC member that perhaps scope will be addressed in the proposal that we'll see on 10/1.

2008 perhaps. Unfortunately B.O. said flatly at last weeks meeting that scope would be unchanged in the '07 IBB.

 

[Outta Here]

But have you also heard B.O. say many times that things are changing day to day even hour to hour. Why Not wait until OCT.1st

 

[Dr Pepper]

I am all for reading on Oct 1st. '08 sounds like the beginnings of the legal action in regards to NJI, but how does that address NJE and the future NetJets creations? My point - if you don't read about scope on 1 Oct, don't forget about it.

 

[Q Service]

Tell me where its at in the FOM, otherwise I will be taking you to the CPs office for harrassment.

FOM Section 4.4.1​

Routine Aircraft Cleaning

​

– The Pilot-in-Command is responsible for the aircraft condition and shall keep the aircraft as clean as possible. Prior to leaving the aircraft, the crew will complete the interior cleaning and insure the aircraft is in a “ready to go” condition.


Jackass

​

 

[netjetwife]

2008 perhaps. Unfortunately B.O. said flatly at last weeks meeting that scope would be unchanged in the '07 IBB.

PG, I do believe that was meant as a reassurance that scope would not be weakened in the IBB proposal. NJ pilots have one of the best scope clauses in the industry. I'm surprised that some seem to think that those involved in IBB are less concerned now about scope than they were in 2005. Just because they aren't at liberty to report every conversation taking place at the bargaining table doesn't mean that an issue isn't being discussed. Furthermore, it's a safe bet that they are every bit as concerned with job security as the next pilot and have more of the inside scoop when it comes to the company's plans for the future. My husband isn't worried about scope.

My family hopes that the spirit of unity that gave us the bypass pay bid (as always, thanks guys!) will again prove that the NJ pilots do believe a Union's role is to work together as a group to achieve overall improvements to the contract. The most junior pilots are still underpaid and their QOL is lagging behind. My family is doing what we can to change that. We view a solid pay raise and 100 bases as progress for the Union. Those who think otherwise ought to step forward and volunteer their time and energy. I suggest that it's not as easy as you think and takes much more sacrifice of personal time than most are willing to give.

Hoping for the best,
Netjetwife

 

[Diesel]

My husband isn't worried about scope.

He should be. Or we could just ask him.

We view a solid pay raise and 100 bases as progress for the Union.

Sorry sometimes it just isn't about the union but about the pilots.

Those who think otherwise ought to step forward and volunteer their time and energy. I suggest that it's not as easy as you think and takes much more sacrifice of personal time than most are willing to give.

Right but its still a volunteer army.

 

[netjetwife]

I thought NJ pilots equated the pilot group with the Union. To clarify, my family uses the two words interchangeably--even the kids. We are thinking about the pilots, especially those who are underpaid and have to commute and/or live in a location not of their choosing.

There's a difference between remaining vigilant and viewing an issue as an immediate threat. It's my observation that those in the know aren't sounding the alarm over scope. That suggests that their insight is based on IBB and/or interaction with upper management.

To use the volunteer army analogy, my husband is currently up at the front. You can ask him his opinion about scope, but this is crunch time and distractions aren't in the best interest of the group. From the NJ board it appears that the "marching orders" are: be patient, keep the faith, and read the entire document. Considering the sacrifices that some families are making for the greater good, that's a small thing to ask. NJW

 

[Ultra Grump]

From the NJ board it appears that the "marching orders" are: be patient, keep the faith, and read the entire document.

Apparently, we don't have to.

We view a solid pay raise and 100 bases as progress for the Union. Those who think otherwise ought to step forward and volunteer their time and energy.

We should either vote yes, or run for office next time around. Right?

The most junior pilots are still underpaid and their QOL is lagging behind. My family is doing what we can to change that.

This kills me. I understand your support for your husband's union role, but what exactly is "your family" doing to change that?

 

[netjetwife]

...We should either vote yes, or run for office next time around. Right? ... but what exactly is "your family" doing to change that?

That's not quite what I said, UG. To be precise: We view a solid pay raise and 100 bases as progress for the Union. Those who think otherwise ought to step forward and volunteer their time and energy. I suggest that it's not as easy as you think and takes much more sacrifice of personal time than most are willing to give. My intended point is that it's easy to criticize the work of others from the comfort of your easy chair, but could you produce better results? If so, please help the group achieve the gains you're calling for. It isn't even necessary to run for office; there are plenty of volunteer positions on numerous committees. Common sense dictates that the larger the talent pool the easier it is to achieve the desired results. Certainly the risk of burn-out goes down when there are more helping to carry the load.

My family gives up lots of the together time all the pilots value highly, and we have been non-stop for the last few years. Additionally, my husband has lost income because of time away from the line. I am not complaining, mind you-- just explaining. I was satisfied with my post, but apparently you weren't. Your name is quite fitting, isn't it?... Ultra Grump... My sympathy to those disappointed by what they've seen from IBB--so far. NJW

 

[Diesel]

To be precise: We view a solid pay raise and 100 bases as progress for the Union.

Who is we? HBA's for all would be solid progress. We screwed up the first time around and now is a chance to either get it right or watch HBA's as a whole die a slow 5 year death. Because the 100 will be the final 100 in the end if we allow it.

My intended point is that it's easy to criticize the work of others from the comfort of your easy chair, but could you produce better results? If so, please help the group achieve the gains you're calling for. It isn't even necessary to run for office; there are plenty of volunteer positions on numerous committees. Common sense dictates that the larger the talent pool the easier it is to achieve the desired results.

Ahh yes the if you're not volunteering you shouldn't speak out. Hmmmm where else in our government have I heard that. insert jeopardy music.

Thats the beauty of 1 pilot 1 vote.

 

[Ultra Grump]

That's not quite what I said, UG.

It's pretty much exactly what you said. "Those who think otherwise ought to step forward and volunteer their time and energy." Pretty clear.

To be precise: We view a solid pay raise and 100 bases as progress for the Union. Those who think otherwise ought to step forward and volunteer their time and energy. I suggest that it's not as easy as you think and takes much more sacrifice of personal time than most are willing to give.

The underlined part is certainly true, but doesn't automatically qualify whatever the leadership puts out as "yes-worthy."

My intended point is that it's easy to criticize the work of others from the comfort of your easy chair, but could you produce better results?

Probably not, but it doesn't matter. I am not the one in a leadership position, with my wife on message boards acting as a cheerleader for this proposal.

If so, please help the group achieve the gains you're calling for. It isn't even necessary to run for office; there are plenty of volunteer positions on numerous committees.

I have volunteered time in the past, and may again in the future, although the beat-down some have gotten for not toeing the union line over the IBB gives me pause.

My family gives up lots of the together time all the pilots value highly, and we have been non-stop for the last few years. Additionally, my husband has lost income because of time away from the line.

Every pilot's family gives up time - it's the nature of the business. Your husband's choice to work in 1108 leadership has not resulted in a loss of income, any more than my decision not to bid the reserve schedule has resulted in a loss of income for me. It's a choice we both made, with the resulting salary implications. We both have the potential to earn more, but choose not to.

I am not complaining, mind you-- just explaining. I was satisfied with my post, but apparently you weren't. Your name is quite fitting, isn't it?... Ultra Grump...

Yep, sure is. Never been much of a rah-rah yes-man. Besides, if you spent much time in an Ultra, you'd be grumpy, too.

My sympathy to those disappointed by what they've seen from IBB--so far. NJW

Sympathy is unneeded and unwarranted. We'll see (or maybe not) on Oct 1 whether our disappointment is unfounded or not.