More planes for ExpressJet

[centralpilot]

For you LASA guys....get bent! There are 600 of us hired after the merger on the XJT side hired right in ATL. The VAST majority of our side is willing to work with you and are willing to do PBS under the right conditions. I have spoken to my reps on the issue multiple times and they are not being militant. What a bunch of jerks.

You say you are willing to work with us while simultaneously insulting the entire L-ASA pilot group. That is not a constructive contribution to the discussion.

You also say that your side isn't being "militant", but it appears to me that they are just as stuck on their preferred PBS vendor as L-ASA reps are. I don't think militant is the right word, but I do think both sides are being equally stubborn at this point. I'm sure the reps on both sides feel strongly that their preferred vendor is the best for all XJT pilots. We need to find a way to reason through the disagreement or choose a conflict resolution method so that we can move forward.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

It's a penis war!

 

[g-code]

You say you are willing to work with us while simultaneously insulting the entire L-ASA pilot group. That is not a constructive contribution to the discussion.

You also say that your side isn't being "militant", but it appears to me that they are just as stuck on their preferred PBS vendor as L-ASA reps are. I don't think militant is the right word, but I do think both sides are being equally stubborn at this point. I'm sure the reps on both sides feel strongly that their preferred vendor is the best for all XJT pilots. We need to find a way to reason through the disagreement or choose a conflict resolution method so that we can move forward.

Well, when I hear a pilot group say Flightline or nothing, say they hope we wither on the vine, etc. it makes one angry. When Delta announced the initial plane reduction on the CRJ side, and the company was mentioning the possibility of furloughs, I did not hear ONE of our guys say a word. Now that the shoe is on the other foot(so it would seem for the moment), all the Internet CRJ tough guys come out and say they don't want to merge lists etc.

We are coming off line bidding to PBS. That is a compromise. Time for the CRJ side to find one too.

 

[Thebadcat1313]

Well, when I hear a pilot group say Flightline or nothing, say they hope we wither on the vine, etc. it makes one angry. When Delta announced the initial plane reduction on the CRJ side, and the company was mentioning the possibility of furloughs, I did not hear ONE of our guys say a word. Now that the shoe is on the other foot(so it would seem for the moment), all the Internet CRJ tough guys come out and say they don't want to merge lists etc.

We are coming off line bidding to PBS. That is a compromise. Time for the CRJ side to find one too.

You obviously don't read the crackpipe then, plenty of LXJT dudes spouting off about staying separate, after the Delta TA... I don't really care though cuz there are idiots on both sides and I don't hold a whole pilot group responsible for the careless words of a few idiots (captain tony for example). I must say, when I Jumpseat on LXJT the crews are always professional and go out of their way to treat me like a king... So thank you LXJT. Let the war be fought where it should be, on the MEC level. We are not privy to all available information regarding any aspect of this new contract. Acting childish on either side does nothing to help the matter and only divides this group, which IMHO is not necessary.

 

[g-code]

Agreed. And FYI, the crackpipe is mostly the same 8-10 spleen-venters b!tching about everything....and I mean EVERYTHING.

 

[Nevets]

But the LEXT guys are pushing a system with limitations that current system does not have, and which our MEC knows we don't want. Contrary to popular thought, they have extensively checked out smartpref, and decided it is inferior and unworkable. Why that makes the asa side any more militant than the xjt side ks beyond me?

They have not really researched it. They haven't even run actual test bids with smartpref.

You also say that your side isn't being "militant", but it appears to me that they are just as stuck on their preferred PBS vendor as L-ASA reps are. I don't think militant is the right word, but I do think both sides are being equally stubborn at this point. I'm sure the reps on both sides feel strongly that their preferred vendor is the best for all XJT pilots. We need to find a way to reason through the disagreement or choose a conflict resolution method so that we can move forward.

That is not correct. The XJT MEC moved from their position of line bidding to smartpref. Your MEC has not moved one bit and in fact has made ultimatums instead. And they have turned down every single conflict resolution idea and not given any of their own. Well, other than "flight line for everyone or nothing."

 

[79%N1]

Coming off your demand of line bidding to a worse bidding system than both of us have is not some grand compromise! If my mec is trying to save me from this system then kudos to them. I believe them when they say this system is crap, and I'm not interested in this globalizing system.

 

[centralpilot]

That is not correct. The XJT MEC moved from their position of line bidding to smartpref. Your MEC has not moved one bit and in fact has made ultimatums instead.

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that argument. You are mixing 2 decisions:

1. Line bidding vs. PBS
2. Bidding software

Both MECs agree on the first decision. LXJT moving to that position has nothing to do with compromising with LASA. It was a recognition that the company wasn't going to entertain line bidding in the JCBA under acceptable terms.

On the second issue both MECs have made statements that the other vendor's system is inherently flawed and unworkable. How many times has mcpickle said PrefBid won't work for XJT pilots? How is that any less stubborn? This isn't a disagreement for disagreement's sake. Both sides think the other's choice is broken. I'm not sure how we can find a compromise with that situation. I'm not really happy about options being taken off the table, but I don't think LASA should give up their current system solely because LXJT recognized reality regarding their line bidding system.

If we move to SmartPref it should be because it is a better system. I have an open mind, but the more I look at the material on Crewing Solution's website the more doubtful I am that the system can be an improvement. All the risks we sought to avoid by negotiating PBS work rules ahead of section 6 will be nullified if we switch vendors in the JCBA. We will most likely be stuck with whatever we choose for the duration of the contract, so I'll need to be thoroughly convinced that SmartPref is worth that risk. It doesn't help that the only live reference is going to be a very small group of relief line holders for whom any system will be an improvement.

 

[777forever]

Company told L-XJT that line bidding is not an option and apparently now has told L-ASA that Flightline is not an option.

Let's meet XJT in the middle and go with Smartpref to get this thing done. The company is now giving concessionary proposals at the table because we've stalled negotiations so long that we are now negotiating in a period of rapidly declining regional pay and workrules industry wide.

Frankly, I'll be shocked if we can get a contract with status quo pay and workrules

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2

 

[centralpilot]

Company told L-XJT that line bidding is not an option and apparently now has told L-ASA that Flightline is not an option.

Source? PM if you prefer. I do not believe the company would be taking options off the table at this point, but if they are you'd have to wonder why. If the company really wants SmartPref it makes me even more skeptical about its merits.

Frankly, I'll be shocked if we can get a contract with status quo pay and workrules

If we can't get a TA better than status quo this PBS discussion is purely academic. There won't be a concessionary joint contact.