More cuts coming at Netjets????

[Willy21]

But did you get a picture of said sandwiches? If you didn't get the picture it isn't as good as what he has because he has a picture. We need pictures people.

 

[gutshotdraw]

My partner had the salmon salad yesterday. He said it was pretty tasty. I went for the regional hamburger lunch. Dang tasty.

 

[General Lee]

Corporal Lee is at it again. I take a look in here about once a year and leave when I am sickened by Lee's commentary. This jerk is threatened by anybody and everybody in the sky. Two years ago it was the regional pilots, one year ago it was the NW pilots and now it is the frac pilots. He was hired with Delta when the standards standards were lower....his employer missed the "signs." He has contempt for any rival and is soul-less. He will self destruct one day.

No I won't. I give opinions that some people do not like. I enjoy this whole industry, and we are free on here to comment about any part of it. If you can debate what I say, then go for it. If you can't, and you know I am right, then step away from your computer. Here you try to attack me personally, when you can't even prove me wrong about the downward trending fractional industry. Netjets is currently being gutted by a new CEO that sees excess. That is unfortunate for the pilots, since the prior CEO was very pro-pilot. This might be the first time ever Netjets has been the target of downsizing, and that is not sitting well with NJA or NJI pilots on this board. Well, that isn't my fault. I am not wishing anyone harm or a job loss, but rather pointing out an unfortunate truth through debate. Again, I am not making light of this situation at all. Those famous salmon sandwiches that we would all like to eat may be on the way out in the form of cost cutting. Sad but true.

It's great you blame an employer for "missing the signs" when it looks like many "missed the signs" of their own failing industry. Guess what sport, the whole industry is unstable, and people who thought otherwise a couple years ago are unfortunately feeling those affects now.

And wait a second, you are retired and trying to slam me about being right? Corporal Lee? Look who looks childish now. You can't debate me, so you resort to name calling. Maybe you need to retire again, from this board.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jppt2000]

No I won't. I give opinions that some people do not like. I enjoy this whole industry, and we are free on here to comment about any part of it. If you can debate what I say, then go for it. If you can't, and you know I am right, then step away from your computer. Here you try to attack me personally, when you can't even prove me wrong about your downward trending fractional industry. Netjets is currently being gutted by a new CEO that sees excess. That is unfortunate for the pilots, since the prior CEO was very pro-pilot. This might be the first time ever Netjets has been the target or downsizing, and that is not sitting well with NJA or NJI pilots on this board. Well, that isn't my fault. I am not wishing anyone harm or a job loss, but rather pointing out an unfortunate truth.

It's great you blame an employer for "missing the signs" when it looks like you "missed the signs" of your own falling industry. Guess what sport, the whole industry is unstable, and people who thought otherwise a couple years ago are unfortunately feeling those affects now. Attack all you want, it only shows your nervousness in your own situation. Good luck to you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

LMAO!
Bragging about jumping jacks on your "flight deck", demeaning flight attendants, and telling all of us about your intercontinental adventures on the fractional board is not debate.
I haven't seen many folks on the major boards picking fights or kicking folks when they're down.
Folks are getting furloughed and you appear compelled to either pour salt in people's wounds or pontificate because you read a few newspaper articles.
IMO you are a poor representative of a pilot.
I feel sorry for the folks that have to listen your uken your magical pond crossings.

 

[General Lee]

LMAO!
Bragging about jumping jacks on your "flight deck", demeaning flight attendants, and telling all of us about your intercontinental adventures on the fractional board is not debate.
I haven't seen many folks on the major boards picking fights or kicking folks when they're down.
Folks are getting furloughed and you appear compelled to either pour salt in people's wounds or pontificate because you read a few newspaper articles.
IMO you are a poor representative of a pilot.
I feel sorry for the folks that have to listen your uken your magical pond crossings.

So what? I can't give examples of what I do, like pond crossings? Who made you forum police? You need to get over it. Am I kicking people when they are down when I discuss what may or may not happen? We went through similar downsizing, and I stated that in EACH of my posts. I recognize what is going on, since I have seen it firsthand, unlike many of you. You are upset about this, just like we were. Pouring salt in wounds would be laughing at a bad situation, and I have not done that. If you think me stating that salmon sandwiches may be gone is doing just that, then you need to grow a backbone. Stating the obvious, like downsizing, is an unfortunate truth in a lot of industries during this economy, and I do not make fun of that at all, and you know it.

And it is great in YOUR OPINION that I am a poor respresentative of a pilot?? I am not trying to represent any airline, just giving my opinion, which is valid. If you think otherwise, debate the facts, and try to avoid personal attacks. When you cannot, it shows your own true colors. And this board allows you to IGNORE anyone you like. Please feel free to put me on your list, because that might make you feel better.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[CA1900]

... the prior CEO was very pro-pilot.

And that right there is how we know that you don't know what you're talking about with respect to NetJets. Anyone who believes RTS was "pro-pilot" truly doesn't understand our company or our departed CEO.

Those famous salmon sandwiches that we would all like to eat may be on the way out in the form of cost cutting. Sad but true.

I addressed this earlier, and you conveniently ignored it. Whether a caterer sends us Salmon or PB&J, the cost is substantially the same. It's the delivery cost that makes up the bulk of our meal costs, and that isn't going to change.

What are the alternatives? Since it's clear you haven't been in an FBO recently, or ever, I'll spell it out. There are three ways for us to get food in our job:

• Have it catered, as we do now.
• Go out and get it, and delay one of our share owners' flights.
• Go to the food court -- oh, wait, there isn't one.

Which of the first two options makes the most sense to you?

 

[General Lee]

And that right there is how we know that you don't know what you're talking about with respect to NetJets. Anyone who believes RTS was "pro-pilot" truly doesn't understand our company or our departed CEO.



I addressed this earlier, and you conveniently ignored it. Whether a caterer sends us Salmon or PB&J, the cost is substantially the same. It's the delivery cost that makes up the bulk of our meal costs, and that isn't going to change.

What are the alternatives? Since it's clear you haven't been in an FBO recently, or ever, I'll spell it out. There are three ways for us to get food in our job:

• Have it catered, as we do now.
• Go out and get it, and delay one of our share owners' flights.
• Go to the food court -- oh, wait, there isn't one.

Which of the first two options makes the most sense to you?

Who came up with the 300 pilots retire with 3 years full pay and retirement scheme? That is one HUGE mistake in the eyes of WB, and could be one reason Santulli left, leading the way for your current CEO with cost cutting ideas. It sounded like a great idea, to the pilots, just not anyone else in any industry. NJA or NJI never furloughed before, which again is GREAT for pilots, but not something that happens in any other industry. WB could see that, and someone had to go. That is too bad.


And now that you have brought up how you get catered, can you bring up how you get paid extra to: get papers, clean the toilet, take bags out of your plane, etc? You normally can tip the FBO guys, but if you do it yourself, then you tip yourself. Sounds GREAT, except WB probably thinks that is ridiculous, and I bet the new CEO does too. Do you tip yourself for walkarounds? Maybe I should do that too. Do FLOPS or Flex guys do that too? I know you have to tip a lot of line guys to get things done for your pax, but tipping yourself for getting papers or cleaning with a vaccum just seems "interesting." Hey, I wish we had that at the airlines!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[CA1900]

Way to dodge the question, once again.

Ah, I see you've edited your post to add the second paragraph, so I'll do the same:

And now that you have brought up how you get catered...

And yet you still haven't answered my question! If my company "cuts" catered meals, how am I going to eat? I can't brown bag it from home. It's not a perk, it's a necessity of the operation. I'd much rather go to a restaurant, but there isn't time.

... can you bring up how you get paid extra to: get papers, clean the toilet, take bags out of your plane, etc?

I don't get paid extra. If I tip a line guy for something, I expense it. If I do it myself, I don't. Pretty simple. Most of the above tasks are things I can't do myself, such as emptying lavs, brewing coffee, taking care of passenger cars, and so forth.


Still waiting on your answer on the catering.

 

[General Lee]

Way to dodge the question, once again.

Your flying has slowed WAY down (except the holidays), so I think you can go get food while you sit around at a hotel most of the day, getting a crew car from the FBO while sitting around at that FBO and finding a pizza joint, or go to your fridge while sitting at home during a home "tour" since there is not much flying available. How's that? Pretty accurate. You have plenty of time now compared to what you used to have during your very busy tours of the past. You know I am right, I hear it from my friends over there.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[glasspilot]

I get about 3 crew meals a year. The only time I need it is if there isn't any food at the FBO and I'm on a 1 hour or less turn AND it's that way all day. Turns out most days have a turn of 1 hour plus somewhere in the day near the lunch hour. Most FBO's have crew cars I can use to get food and most FBO's have food near by. In a pinch I can always call ahead and have a pizza ordered when I call in range. The pizza and plane arrive around the same time. There is no need to cost the company 50K + a year to provide me with PB&J or Salmon Sandwiches. It's very rare I need to cater for myself and my crew.

 

[glasspilot]

Oh, and I've been flying my a$$ off the past year or two too, ...to make that clear.

 

[General Lee]

I get about 3 crew meals a year. The only time I need it is if there isn't any food at the FBO and I'm on a 1 hour or less turn AND it's that way all day. Turns out most days have a turn of 1 hour plus somewhere in the day near the lunch hour. Most FBO's have crew cars I can use to get food and most FBO's have food near by. In a pinch I can always call ahead and have a pizza ordered when I call in range. The pizza and plane arrive around the same time. There is no need to cost the company 50K + a year to provide me with PB&J or Salmon Sandwiches. It's very rare I need to cater for myself and my crew.

How about Rudy's at TEB? What happened to that deal? Sounded great to me. Maybe it would be wise not to leave the airport grounds there.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Oh, and I've been flying my a$$ off the past year or two too, ...to make that clear.

Sounds like you may be on the wrong fleet. Try to bid the Encore, Beechjet, or Hawker 800. If you are flying your arse off, you probably are tipping yourself well, which is a plus.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[CA1900]

Your flying has slowed WAY down (except the holidays), so I think you can go get food while you sit around at a hotel most of the day...

If I sit at a hotel, food is on me. The whole point of catering the crew food is to get it to the airport where I can't get it myself.

... getting a crew car from the FBO while sitting around at that FBO and finding a pizza joint...

If I have the time, I do just that, although I'm partial to Thai rather than pizza.

...or go to your fridge while sitting at home during a home "tour" since there is not much flying available. How's that? Pretty accurate.

I haven't had a "home tour" in two years. So not real accurate, no.

Good attempt at spinning it, though.

 

[jppt2000]

So what? I can't give examples of what I do, like pond crossings? Who made you forum police? You need to get over it. Am I kicking people when they are down when I discuss what may or may not happen? We went through similar downsizing, and I stated that in EACH of my posts. I recognize what is going on, since I have seen it firsthand, unlike many of you. You are upset about this, just like we were. Pouring salt in wounds would be laughing at a bad situation, and I have not done that. If you think me stating that salmon sandwiches may be gone is doing just that, then you need to grow a backbone. Stating the obvious, like downsizing, is an unfortunate truth in a lot of industries during this economy, and I do not make fun of that at all, and you know it.

And it is great in YOUR OPINION that I am a poor respresentative of a pilot?? I am not trying to represent any airline, just giving my opinion, which is valid. If you think otherwise, debate the facts, and try to avoid personal attacks. When you cannot, it shows your own true colors. And this board allows you to IGNORE anyone you like. Please feel free to put me on your list, because that might make you feel better.


Bye Bye---General Lee

You read few newspaper articles, then pass off what you've read as your own ideas.
Just about all the tripe you've posted can be traced back to news releases.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Kicking people when they're down (downturn in business, impending furloughs), then pouring salt in their wounds.
Poor representative of a pilot and a person.

 

[General Lee]

Way to dodge the question, once again.

Ah, I see you've edited your post to add the second paragraph, so I'll do the same:



And yet you still haven't answered my question! If my company "cuts" catered meals, how am I going to eat? I can't brown bag it from home. It's not a perk, it's a necessity of the operation. I'd much rather go to a restaurant, but there isn't time.



I don't get paid extra. If I tip a line guy for something, I expense it. If I do it myself, I don't. Pretty simple. Most of the above tasks are things I can't do myself, such as emptying lavs, brewing coffee, taking care of passenger cars, and so forth.


Still waiting on your answer on the catering.

That is such BS. You make extra money tipping yourself. I have friends there, and they explained it to me. If you don't tip yourself a "car payment" per tour, then "you are not doing it right" is how they explained it. That is crazy, but FANTASTIC. I don't think WB likes that, though...

And I don't think you should empty lavs, brew coffee, or park cars. But, you know as well as I do that you tip yourself for other things that should be a part of the job. Do FLOPS guys or FLEX guys do that? Answer the question. Guess what? Downsizing takes away a lot of "extras" that were great to have. We have seen a lot of that in the airlines.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[CA1900]

If you don't tip yourself a "car payment" per tour, then "you are not doing it right" is how they explained it. That is crazy, but FANTASTIC.

And also a thing of the past, or so I hear -- it certainly hasn't been the case since I got here. Sounds fantastic indeed -- wish it were true. I just had a report kicked back because I tipped a taxi driver 80 cents beyond what we're allowed. Believe me, they audit our expense reports very thoroughly, and they'd certainly spot someone making a "car payment per tour."

And I don't think you should empty lavs, brew coffee, or park cars. But, you know as well as I do that you tip yourself for other things that should be a part of the job. Do FLOPS guys or FLEX guys do that? Answer the question.

I can't speak for FlightOptions or FlexJet. I can only speak for myself, and I already answered that question: I don't expense tips I don't actually give to someone for a service rendered. Maybe your friends do, but I don't, as I said in my earlier message.

 

[General Lee]

You read few newspaper articles, then pass off what you've read as your own ideas.
Just about all the tripe you've posted can be traced back to news releases.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Kicking people when they're down (downturn in business, impending furloughs), then pouring salt in their wounds.
Poor representative of a pilot and a person.

Wow, your industry is sooooo secretive??? Hello, I have good friends that fly there. We talk a lot about the perks, and I always thought that they were FANTASTIC. Now you are going through a rough spot, and your new CEO wants to cut back. It has happened in many other industries, and you are not special in that regard. It will happen again, at the airlines, at the fracs, and at other industries. If you think me saying that is "pouring salt in wounds", then you need to wake up and see that it is happening all around you. And thanks for making me a representative of "all pilots" or a certain airline----that is YOU doing it, not me. I am free to give my opinion.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

And also a thing of the past, or so I hear -- it certainly hasn't been the case since I got here. Sounds fantastic indeed -- wish it were true. I just had a report kicked back because I tipped a taxi driver 80 cents beyond what we're allowed. Believe me, they audit our expense reports very thoroughly, and they'd certainly spot someone making a "car payment per tour."



I can't speak for FlightOptions or FlexJet. I can only speak for myself, and I already answered that question: I don't expense tips I don't actually give to someone for a service rendered. Maybe your friends do, but I don't, as I said in my earlier message.

Sounds like you are an "honest" guy, and that is good. Not everyone is like that, and plenty take advantage of situations. Not everyone is afforded that opportunity, and when businesses are hurting, those perks tend to go away quickly. Again, I have seen downsizing, and it is not fun at all.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[gunfyter]

General lee,

as much as it pains you ... nothing will change for me for at least 3 years when the contract is amendable...

and it took 5 years to amend it the last time ....

Gee, I hope the economy rebounds before 2013 - 2018.

For your sake as well as ours....

 

[corpflunkie]

Sounds like you may be on the wrong fleet. Try to bid the Encore, Beechjet, or Hawker 800. If you are flying your arse off, you probably are tipping yourself well, which is a plus.


Bye Bye--General Lee

GL,

Glass doesn't work for NJA, hence the 3 or so crew meals a year. Most of us at one of the other fracs find a way to work the schedule so we can step out and grab a bite. This saves the company $300+ a day per plane.

 

[General Lee]

Well, I have been "counseled" by a mentor pilot and advised to stop commenting on this subject. I intended to do that long ago, but F9pilot dragged me back in with his ridiculous comments. That doesn't mean I won't comment on future issues, since that is what I like to do. But this thread is coming to a close for me (unless people want to drag me back in).

So, good luck to you guys, and I hope it all goes well for you.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[gutshotdraw]

Hey guys, if you like steak the "regional beef lunch" from Rudy's this quarter is dang tasty. Had it today on my 13 hour, 3 leg , 7.9 block hour day.

I have no ass left so I'm going home now (because I flew it off this week). The "General" still has no idea what or how we do what we do so don't let him get to ya. He'll understand when the boss files the next 10-K.

 

[jppt2000]

Well, I have been "counseled" by a mentor pilot and advised to stop commenting on this subject. I intended to do that long ago, but F9pilot dragged me back in with his ridiculous comments. That doesn't mean I won't comment on future issues, since that is what I like to do. But this thread is coming to a close for me (unless people want to drag me back in).

So, good luck to you guys, and I hope it all goes well for you.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Maybe if you read a few magazines with glitzy covers and a few more self serving "interviews" from industry "insiders", your opinions would be more valid.
You could start with re-reading some back issues the Delta Inflight magazines from a few years ago, they had some really unbiased articles about fractional aviation.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I feel fortunate to be "commented on" by the General as if he knows all about NetJets simply because he "has a friend".

The General has a history of attacking things he perceives as a personal threat. It's entertaining. I enjoy riding on his plane as a customer. I wish that I could say the same in reverse, but he would be no Delta pilot if he were a NetJets Owner.

So let's look at some interesting comparisons between 121 and 91/91K/135/121. Why not?

On the General's side of the field, pilots can't push back from the gate without a gate agent verifying a fuel load. We make sure we fuel our jets according to release.. by ourselves.

ATC hand holds large 121 jets onto the localizer. We shoot non precision approaches with uncompromising accuracy to the world's most challenging airports.

General's world is quite fragile really... I'm surprised nobody fastens his seatbelt and harness for takeoff and landing, you know... to make sure he does it right.

Each to his own. You won't see me cutting down his efforts or his career expectations because of "large jetitis" or ego. He worked hard to get hired by Delta and deserves to be there. Personally, I just think that the 121 world is way broken and those who work in that environment begin to resemble the condition after a time of exposure.

At NetJets, nobody ever said the job was an easy one. We knew that coming in. I loved seeing retired Delta guys try to adjust to our world a few years ago when we were hiring. It was cheap entertainment. I'm sure guys enjoyed seeing me acclimate as well... just glad I wasn't acclimating from 30 years of institutionalized flying.

See you in KTEX General... oh, well... no I won't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODWuNf3LXk8

Not looking for any compliments from you but for a NetJets crew to fly to any random airport (in the world) with little or no notice, deal with all of the flight operations, customs, wx, tribal knowledge issues AND still exceed Owner expectations on a regular basis is simply a testament to our business model and capabilities as aviation professionals. And we do it with few exceptions and on a regular basis.

Delta and its subsidiaries fly to over 375 destinations in 88 countries (excluding codeshare), across 6 continents.

NetJets flies to and of over 5,000+ destinations (US Domestic) and to 173 countries across all continents.

And you need to propagate attacks on our crew meals and accuse us of tip embezzlement... why again?!?!

 

[imacdog]

Hey guys, if you like steak the "regional beef lunch" from Rudy's this quarter is dang tasty. Had it today on my 13 hour, 3 leg , 7.9 block hour day.

It's mighty good. I remember a trip into PBI where the local seafood meal was coconut shrimp. That was some good stuff too. Other favorites of mine were the one pound burrito in OAK and the stir fry meal at SEZ. I do have to say that the beef mediallions on the standard menu have been great as well.

 

[CA1900]

Almost as good as an unlimited supply of Biscoff cookies, eh? :laugh:

 

[General Lee]

I feel fortunate to be "commented on" by the General as if he knows all about NetJets simply because he "has a friend".

The General has a history of attacking things he perceives as a personal threat. It's entertaining. I enjoy riding on his plane as a customer. I wish that I could say the same in reverse, but he would be no Delta pilot if he were a NetJets Owner.

So let's look at some interesting comparisons between 121 and 91/91K/135/121. Why not?

On the General's side of the field, pilots can't push back from the gate without a gate agent verifying a fuel load. We make sure we fuel our jets according to release.. by ourselves.

ATC hand holds large 121 jets onto the localizer. We shoot non precision approaches with uncompromising accuracy to the world's most challenging airports.

General's world is quite fragile really... I'm surprised nobody fastens his seatbelt and harness for takeoff and landing, you know... to make sure he does it right.

Each to his own. You won't see me cutting down his efforts or his career expectations because of "large jetitis" or ego. He worked hard to get hired by Delta and deserves to be there. Personally, I just think that the 121 world is way broken and those who work in that environment begin to resemble the condition after a time of exposure.

At NetJets, nobody ever said the job was an easy one. We knew that coming in. I loved seeing retired Delta guys try to adjust to our world a few years ago when we were hiring. It was cheap entertainment. I'm sure guys enjoyed seeing me acclimate as well... just glad I wasn't acclimating from 30 years of institutionalized flying.

See you in KTEX General... oh, well... no I won't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODWuNf3LXk8

Not looking for any compliments from you but for a NetJets crew to fly to any random airport (in the world) with little or no notice, deal with all of the flight operations, customs, wx, tribal knowledge issues AND still exceed Owner expectations on a regular basis is simply a testament to our business model and capabilities as aviation professionals. And we do it with few exceptions and on a regular basis.

Delta and its subsidiaries fly to over 375 destinations in 88 countries (excluding codeshare), across 6 continents.

NetJets flies to and of over 5,000+ destinations (US Domestic) and to 173 countries across all continents.

And you need to propagate attacks on our crew meals and accuse us of tip embezzlement... why again?!?!

Thanks for bringing me back. That's great you go to TEX. (Telluride) The funny part is when I see your plane taxiing in JFK trying to get to TEX, and still is number 56 for takeoff. You can't force an owner to go to TEB when he wants JFK. That is the way it goes. And, you get to fly airlines on the front and end of each tour. That must be great for you.

There are some fundamental problems with your company, and your new CEO will address those. Things that you liked, will be shed. I know you have a contract, but a lot of that will be re-examined, and your union will meet with your new CEO and try to avoid further furloughs by giving away goodies. It will happen. If not, more people will probably be let go. It happens all the time in the airlines. You are not immune to this. It will be a harsh lesson, but one you will learn unfortunately.

As far as your fun "tips", it is something that is both troubling and FANTASTIC at the same time. I am sure your new CEO is looking at that. Did I say embezzlement? I think you did. I never stated that, just something my friends there have brought up that is a perk. Is that a freudilan slip from you? Watch it, that may be how you actually think of it. It is great if you can tip yourself for getting papers from the FBO and bringing them to the plane. I wish I could do that if it is true.


Have fun, and I will monitor this periodically and see if you want me to debate some more. Good luck with everything!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NJA bound]

general DipSh!t funny stuff

 

[doh]

Since the Gen brought it up, I have to ask. Does Netjets reimburse tips for PIC (papers, ice, coffee) delivery, fuel and baggage handling? Flex does not. The owner tips the line guys for the bags and we just get PIC. We don't tip the fueler either. We only tip for lav service. Airport standby doesn't get a meal, but if we are flying, we get catered. There isn't any way around that if you want to keep the airplane moving. I'm not sure you get that General, but it is true.