Maybe a reson to vote Dem.

[FishandFly]

Quite frankly Abernathy, I think that your use of capitol punishment is quite a cop out.

In 2007 41 people were executed

In 2007 1,400,000 people were aborted.

 

[Abernathy]

I only support capital punishment when overwhelming DNA evidence is available.

I don't have a problem with the actual concept of capital punishment. I know if one of my loved ones were murdered, I would want the perpetrator dead.

That said, I'd be for capital punishment in a perfect system. Perfect meaning-- non imperfect. I stress that point because our system is inherently flawed because, among other things, it relies on things like juries, the members of which are emotional beings; eyewitness testimony (subject to corruption, misinformation, etc.); and biases. The way a suspect even "looks" can have an effect on a jury. (does he look guilty?)--these flaws have put a huge number of innocent candidates on death row. Many of whom, in the past, have been executed.

Our system has not in the past relied on "overwhelming DNA evidence" unfortunately. I wish it did. The DNA testing is still something relatively new.

I think the system is changing. We'll see how it pans out in the future.

 

[Abernathy]

College is probably the reason why so many people have views like that. Jackass professors want to discuss abortion? Why not give a first hand view of an abortion to the students instead of their BS opinions that are based on convenience and not fact.

We've had 3d ultrasounds available for years. Why aren't their videos in 3d showing the child's facial expressions as their limbs are ripped off their body.

I never had a "jackass" professor ever discuss his/her views on abortion. Sorry to dissappoint you. You shouldn't have a problem with education.

 

[FishandFly]

It's not that I have a problem with education by definition, but rather that I have a problem with "educated people" not realizing or taking the time to really understand that it is wrong to kill a 12 week old child.

 

[Abernathy]

It's not that I have a problem with education by definition, but rather that I have a problem with "educated people" not realizing or taking the time to really understand that it is wrong to kill a 12 week old child.

gotcha.

 

[PCL_128]

Our system has not in the past relied on "overwhelming DNA evidence" unfortunately.

Agreed. I support a national moratorium on the death penalty until DNA evidence is required in every state.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Good man! See far-righties? This is how intelligent people respond to new information, rather than the Bush method of refusing to consider anything that goes against their preconceived notions.

Yes, it's gross but it is the woman's right.

 

[Abernathy]

Yes, it's gross but it is the woman's right.

I think this is an important point ardent pro-lifers consistently leave out of the equation. True, there is an "innocent life", but it is inside another person's body. And people should be able to decide what they want to do, have done, or have done to their bodies.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Abernathy, I hope you look into it with the heart and eyes of a human being who is lucky to have not had someone else decide that your very existence was such an inconvenience that it was worth killing you over.

Terry, what about the flipside? What if the child will be born with a debilitating deformity? What if the child will be a crack baby? What if the child were to grow up in less than hospitable conditions (i.e. the ghetto)?

It is probably one of the most difficult choices these moms have had to make in their lives.

 

[PCL_128]

Yes, it's gross but it is the woman's right.

It's not a woman's right to murder another human being.

 

[acaTerry]

Terry, what about the flipside? What if the child will be born with a debilitating deformity? What if the child will be a crack baby? What if the child were to grow up in less than hospitable conditions (i.e. the ghetto)?

It is probably one of the most difficult choices these moms have had to make in their lives.

I have 2 retarded sisters. I have a friend who was born with 1 arm. And all I can say is that they are as happy as anyone can be. They were born that way, it was all they ever knew. They are happy people who bring happiness to everyone they come across. But in your eyes they had NO RIGHT TO LIVE. Nobody has the right to deny someone a chance to be born because they think that someones life does not measure up to perfection. Hitler used that as a reason to kill the Jews. I suppose you can justify him too huh?
You ghetto question is so absurd that I can't even believe you asked it. Now we should kill someone because they are not going to be raised in a perfect neighborhood in White Suburbia USA? There are some great leaders who came out bad places. Think of this, we may have killed the baby who would have found the cure for cancer. How do you know that someone will grow up and be worthless?
Ever hear of Bruce Dickinson, the singer of Iron Maiden? He was a failed abortion. There is a long list of those who "should" have, in the opinion of people like you, been killed in the womb. Using the "woman's right" slogan is pathetic. This is a human life we are talking about, not the choice of getting a tit job or something. There are 2 lives here, not 1. So where is the babies "choice" in the matter? Again, people like you find it so easy to attack the defenseless. Funny how we wonder why our society is so violent. Child abuse has exploded under the "every child a wanted child" slogan. Rape has soared. Until people like you learn that women are not your sextoys, and that life must be protected, it will get worse. You guys run around treating women like playthings then kill the baby that YOU FATHERED. Then you play the woman's right card as to escape your responsibility and selfishness. It is in the US Constitution / Bill of Rights...the RIGHT to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I suppose you would have supported slavery too, because black people were deemed as personal property, not people (sounds hauntingly familiar to the "my body" argument). Hopefully, we will all wake up and see the horror of what we have done for the past 35 years. The Nazis found a way to justify their extermination of the Jews, and nobody wanted to see the reality of it. The Jews were labeled as "not human". How suprising that you guys use "not human" for the unborn baby. Blacks and Jews went through a rough history over the disguising of reality. Just like you don't want to see the reality of abortion today.

 

[CopilotDoug]

But in your eyes they had NO RIGHT TO LIVE...

How about you calm down for starters? You put a WHOLE bunch of words in my mouth in what I suspect was an effort to make me look like a bad guy.

Did I say I could personally do it? No.

Did I say a fetus doesn't have the right to life? No.

Did I say that they have to grow up in ideal conditions?

My point was that there are circumstances which we haven't considered yet as to WHY a woman would want an abortion.

What works for you won't necessarily work for others.

If you want to play Devil's Advocate...who says the next 2 or 3 Adolf Hitler's haven't been stopped?

 

[CopilotDoug]

It's not a woman's right to murder another human being.

When is a person a human being? Egg and Sperm meet up? First heartbeat? First breath? First experience of consciousness?

Define that FIRST and then move from there

 

[CopilotDoug]

Funny how we wonder why our society is so violent.

I don't see how the two are tied together? I haven't committed any acts of violence lately. Here's one study that links lead to violent crimes:

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-lead28-2008may28,0,6207472.story

Just like you don't want to see the reality of abortion today.

You're right. I don't care to see that. But I can look at it, watch it, and still, at the end of the day I will say it's the right of the mother involved.

 

[PCL_128]

When is a person a human being? Egg and Sperm meet up? First heartbeat? First breath? First experience of consciousness?

Define that FIRST and then move from there

Conception.

 

[PCL_128]

You're right. I don't care to see that.

Then you're a coward and shouldn't be speaking on this subject. If you want to advocate for something, then at least have the courage to watch what you're advocating.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Conception.

Is that universally accepted?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Then you're a coward and shouldn't be speaking on this subject. If you want to advocate for something, then at least have the courage to watch what you're advocating.

Where did I say I did not watch it? I watched it, I looked at the pictures. I've seen other greusome images like that. Does that mean I enjoy seeing it? No. It just means I understand what is involved in the process.

 

[PCL_128]

Is that universally accepted?

I really don't care.

 

[CopilotDoug]

I really don't care.

And that's your right...