Making fun of ERAU guys is fun!!!!!

[gkrangers]

True, but what good is an aero sci degree without ratings? In terms of gaining an employable skill set....Riddle has to be one of the most expensive institutions in the country.

It's like getting a degree in IT or CS and never getting any standard certifications along the way.

AS degree is worthless.

There is a job market for Engineering, Human Factors, Safety, Meteorology, and ATC, and Business tho.

All good programs that will in all likelyhood land you a job upon graduation, if the flying doesn't work out.

I think more students are starting to realize its a good idea to major in one of those, and minor in flight or fly off campus. I'm a Safety Science major and I've done all my flying off campus.

 

[gkrangers]

I would just like to add that I am also delusional from mowing the grass in this heat.

 

[gkrangers]

Its also refreshing that this is a good discussion about Riddle instead of the usual bash fest....

 

[Simon Says]

The facts about my post.

I should of said it is fun to make fun of idiot pilots that think they are all that. I did go to Riddle in Prescott for Aerospace Engineering. Well after 3 years I flunked out. I wasn't smart enough. So I became a pilot instead. If any young aviator thinking of flying for a living you can get the same if not more of an education at a mom and pop FBO for less the %20 of the cost.

For you current ERAU A.S. Grads let me ask you this. Does riddle let you fly IMC....I think the answer is No.

I just think Riddle might as well be Gulfstream or that Mesa school. Good luck to all.

 

[Metro752]

Isn't it cute they call their instructors IPs.


SALUTE YOUR IP!

 

[Bjammin]

Its also refreshing that this is a good discussion about Riddle instead of the usual bash fest....

It is. Thanks people for getting it on track with some good discussion.

I can think of a lot worse ways to spend a nice weather day then out with friends and co-workers having a spot landing contest.

 

[IP076]

More like 40k.

Tuition/room/board is on par with many private colleges who charge around 30k a year for that.

The flgiht will probably run you over 10,000 per year...its highway robbery when you compare it to flying at an FBO where you will get more flight time and pay less...You pay as much for a simulator at Riddle as you can for a real airplane elsewhere!

I enjoy it as a school, it has good degree programs (look outside of Aero Sci)...but the flight program can kiss my ass...FBOs all the way.

Well GK, I'll provide some numbers from my part of the country, you show me some from yours.

ERAU-PRC
Cessna 172S (2001 or 2002 Models) Wet - $113/hr
Cessna 172S FTD - $65/hr
(I haven't found a 172S for 65/hr like you mentioned in your post)

PA-44 (2002 Models) Wet - $226/hr
PA-44 FTD $112/hr
(Do you know where to get a new PA44 for 112/hr?)

Instructor Rates are $48/hour

North Aire Inc @ KPRC
http://www.northaire.com/html/courses_and_pricing.html
Cessna 172S (2002) Wet - $130/hr

PA-44 (Early 80s? Turbo) Wet - $230/hr

Their "Wet" rate I believe is kind of limited, they will only reimburse for fuel expenses up to the "per gallon" price at PRC. If you go on a XC to Vegas, you could still be responsible for up to $2.00 a gallon!!!

Their Instructor Rates are $50/hr
(And I know their Instructors see less of that than Riddles)

 

[gkrangers]

I'd rather fly a real 152 (67/wet) than a 172 FTD. (I said airplane, not brand new 172SP) This is in New Jersey.

Where I fly in Florida was as low as 72/hr for a new 172SP wet and I took advantage of that for a while...now its close to 90-100/hr wet, with instruction at 45hr...going up to 55/hr. But other schools charge less, maybe ~30s for instruction. 152s can be found for in the 60s I believe. Now whether you look down on the 152 or not for some reason, its a real airplane and an FTD isn't.

I paid ~165/hr wet for a Duchess near Daytona as well, as recently as May.

Riddle flight costs are high, and above most FBOs, BUT are below a few.

I really dislike all that sim time, as it is plentiful and expensive in the Riddle Part 142 program...its a real deal breaker for me.

I don't know the exact wet rates at Daytona, but I do know Instruction is 54hr, maybe 60 now.

 

[vetteracer]

I am sure they are fine pilots when they are done with there training at ERAU, but, could you stand flying next to a dude all day long that does not have some fun college stories?

 

[IP076]

Well, I was just trying to compare apples to apples, not oranges.

I don't look down at 152s, and probably the largest percentage of my total time is in a 150.

Nobody said that the FTD is an airplane. Nor is it supposed to be. It's a supplement to the airplane for training. You can do scenarios and situations in the FTD that you could not safely do in the airplane. It's also a procedures trainer that can be used so you're not wasting time in the airplane.

Yes, I'm sure you'll find FBOs cheaper than riddle, and I've found some that are more expensive.

I'll have to do some checking, but I dont think the rates at DAB we're quite that high.

 

[SIG600]

Assuming no prior flight experience and no college, How much does it cost to get a degree and all the standard flight training up through CFII, MEI at ERAU?

Dude WTF is up with that avatar?

 

[gkrangers]

Well, I was just trying to compare apples to apples, not oranges.

I don't look down at 152s, and probably the largest percentage of my total time is in a 150.

Nobody said that the FTD is an airplane. Nor is it supposed to be. It's a supplement to the airplane for training. You can do scenarios and situations in the FTD that you could not safely do in the airplane. It's also a procedures trainer that can be used so you're not wasting time in the airplane.

Yes, I'm sure you'll find FBOs cheaper than riddle, and I've found some that are more expensive.

I'll have to do some checking, but I dont think the rates at DAB we're quite that high.

An FTD has no place in learning how to fly a 172 IMO, and there is A LOT of single engine sim work at Daytona. They do VFR sim cross countries!!!

Instrument, fine. Twin, fine.

Private ASEL? Not so fine.

Yeah, a 152 and 172 are different airplanes...but real 152 > 172 FTD anyday...there is no way to justify otherwise when they are the same price.

Need to practice flows? There are mock cockpits for free use on campus.

Instruction at DAB is atleast 54/hr.

 

[DiverDriver]

.....

 

[sargeanb]

The facts about my post.

I should of said it is fun to make fun of idiot pilots that think they are all that. I did go to Riddle in Prescott for Aerospace Engineering. Well after 3 years I flunked out. I wasn't smart enough. So I became a pilot instead. If any young aviator thinking of flying for a living you can get the same if not more of an education at a mom and pop FBO for less the %20 of the cost.

For you current ERAU A.S. Grads let me ask you this. Does riddle let you fly IMC....I think the answer is No.

I just think Riddle might as well be Gulfstream or that Mesa school. Good luck to all.

Observe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us2eYi8MWGI

 

[sargeanb]

An FTD has no place in learning how to fly a 172 IMO, and there is A LOT of single engine sim work at Daytona. They do VFR sim cross countries!!!

Instrument, fine. Twin, fine.

Private ASEL? Not so fine.

Yeah, a 152 and 172 are different airplanes...but real 152 > 172 FTD anyday...there is no way to justify otherwise when they are the same price.

Need to practice flows? There are mock cockpits for free use on campus.

Instruction at DAB is atleast 54/hr.

One reason for our increasing flight costs is fuel: the flight dept added a fuel surcharge to each flight, and over time this significantly increases flight costs, but it is necessary to stay profitable. I think the new mgmt has made alot of positive changes though, including regular discounts for flight students during breaks/holidays.

I agree about the FTD for PVT...we should do maybe two or three during the course, but that's it. I think the main reasoning was to get the cost down for private, but from what I've seen it's still about the same. But, for instrument and multi their great. We save a LOT of time and money by "teleporting" from one approach to another, and can be in IMC whenever we want, a rarity down here. For multi, we can practice all types of emergencies that would be unsafe to practice in the airplane (engine failure at 100 ft, etc.)

The advantage the new Pt 142 students will have is more multi time than us in the older classes had upon graduation. They'll be coming out with 80-100 multi, where we had 25 for the CMEL, but that's it. Also, with the CMEL, I had only about 2 hrs multi PIC (checkride)...which meant I spent almost $4000 to get the multi PIC and checkride for the MEI. The 142 guys will have all multi PIC they need and will be pretty sharp flying light twins, so MEI should cost them a fraction of what I spent. I've found that until you get the MEI, multi time is tough to find (without paying massive amounts for it), while there are plenty of opportunities for single engine time, especially as a CFI.

 

[gkrangers]

I had a roomate who spent 12k to SOLO...

But anyway, as far as getting costs down, I'll believe it when I see it...

Brock..could you break down the current costs, and what times these Part 142ers are supposed to graduate with please?

 

[Simon Says]

Observe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us2eYi8MWGI

I stand corrected.

 

[sargeanb]

Here are some costs dug up from my old students. This is the standard rating progression:

FA132 (Solo) $7000
FA133S (PVT ASEL) $5000
FA133M (PVT AMEL) $8500
FA232 (Inst Multi): $12000
FA272 (Comm AMEL):$6800
FA273 (optional C-ASEL): $3500
FA417 (optional CFI/II): $8000
CRJ Ground school/sim course (optional): $3500

Grand total: $54300, spread out over 3-4 years.

I don't know exactly what students are coming out with timewise, but I'm guessing around 200-250 total with 80-100 multi time, and 24 hrs in the CRJ sim if they opt to do that. These are the REAL cost numbers straight off my records....I even rounded up a bit since these were my sharper students.

Compare this to:
ATP Airline program: $53990
Regional Airline Academy: $60000
Local FBO: 39000 (no turbine training)
Other FBO: 37000 (no turbine training)

So what students get out of these programs is a bit different for each school, but the costs for the "airline prep" schools is about equal. Keep in mind too that we are a university, so Aero Sci students are getting alot of specific classroom training on alot of things they will see in the future outside of our flight department, but the costs for tuition, etc. are not included here.

-Brock Sargeant
MEII

 

[navigator72]

$7000 to solo?????

Two words for this place
RIP OFF

 

[gkrangers]

Thanks Brock.