Looking for Hawaiian A321 Pay Rates

[Dan Roman]

Although....if I had to go from my present position at HA to the left seat of a SWA 737 it would probably be as big a bummer as going from SWA to SkyWest would be. Keep in mind my perception of SkyWest is, for the senior pilots, a very good job and they consider it a career.
As high speed climb alluded too, it's kind of silly to define yourself by what you fly, but your job is the vehicle that allows you to create whatever lifestyle you have.

 

[Dan Roman]

Career expectations my friend... career expectations. That's been behind EVERY SLI arbitration in recent memories and why HAL pilots will not be MIA in 2015.. mark my words. A 12+ Year CA at HAL (pretty much all of them) will have the same expectations as any DAL, UAL, AA, or Southwest pilot for that matter.. We have guys who've been here 30 years and 2... not one of them will get stapled behind anyone at any carrier if/when we get bought/merged.

Actually, since the SWA topic is on the burner, we would have a much stronger "career expectations" card to play. We are the only ones with a HNL base obviously so all the flying out of Hawaii would be "our" career expectations". We have enough AirBuses on firm order that the company has officially put out that they will have a seniority list of just over a 1000 pilots by 2020 (currently 620 or so?) plus I'm guessing a couple hundred retirements by then. Finally, all the widebody flying is "our" career expectation. I have to wonder how the SWA folks would take that? Probably not well, so here's another reason why the merger would be foolish.....even more damage to the "culture" than merging with AirTran did.
Wave, you guys need to stick to what you have been successful at and not try and steal what others have been successful at.

 

[waveflyer]

Career expectations my friend... career expectations. That's been behind EVERY SLI arbitration in recent memories and why HAL pilots will not be MIA in 2015.. mark my words. A 12+ Year CA at HAL (pretty much all of them) will have the same expectations as any DAL, UAL, AA, or Southwest pilot for that matter.. We have guys who've been here 30 years and 2... not one of them will get stapled behind anyone at any carrier if/when we get bought/merged.

They won't?

Then you understand what the air tran uproar was about.
AT wanted to be ahead of our 30 year guys bc their relative seniority puts them there

 

[HA25]

Fired by mike?
Wow

Hey man - congrats on HAL brother
Your description of dan is exactly what I'd imagine actually-
Hawaiian pilots I've known are seriously cool

Yeah- I just can't get into the nonav chat there anymore- just doesn't float my boat

best thing ever happened to me too... I got sick of baby sitting a bunch of trolls.. most of those chumps don't even fly professionally, you know that? Mike didn't care, was more interested in post counts and hits.. I told him he's lost a lot of real pilots to the other forum, but after I banned TMMT for something out of line he yanked my mod and re-instated him.

on the HAL / WN topic.. srsly.. I have a lot of respect for the WN guys.. went form being the ugly girl at the end of the bar after a long night of drinking in 2001 to a top paid narrow body pilot group... frankly doing more to hold up the bar than the us guys at the Legacies over the past 13 years.. But then, you guys were also the ones behind all of this high productivity pushing that frankly we're still trying to undo... I don't know about you all, but I didnt' become an airline pilot to work 20+ days a month like my land lover friends.. Yes, I do want to work 12 days and get paid for 85 hours.. so sue me!

 

[HA25]

They won't?

Then you understand what the air tran uproar was about.
AT wanted to be ahead of our 30 year guys bc their relative seniority puts them there

it's not about seniority... its' about pay/workrules/benefits.

HAL captains make A LOT more than Airtran captains, far better retirement, medical, etc ... and with far better schedules.. Expectations are more than my equipment,. This is why USAir East 330 captains will be grossly disappointed ... $150/hr doesn't go far in the "Expectations" dept.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Point of order....
I hope you guys realize that you are arguing about what YOU would want and what YOU like. Guess what.....I agree with you 100%! You got a great thing going and you are loving life. But!!!....this whole academic discussion deals with the purchase of a very inexpensive long haul international flight department. If and it is a big if, SWA will be looking to purchase HA for its routes and knowledge of establishing more widebody domiciles. That is it, pure and simple. No one is saying that it would not suck. No one is saying that you are going to be laughing and giving high fives down the jetway. I am sure you would have the same sickening feeling in your stomach that most SWA f/o's have had since the announcement of the AT purchase.

 

[Dan Roman]

As I said mergers are always about trying to increase shareholder value and it's done at the expense of the employees. Buying Hawaiian would be the end of your "culture" Simple as that. But your right, it's about as likely as finding the MAS777 in one piece.

 

[Dan Roman]

It has been effectively pointed out here just how many barriers there are to a merger If SWA did ignore some of the realities pointed out here they would likely be going down the USAir/Piedmont/PSA path.

 

[waveflyer]

HA-

We are into high productivity - still am- if I can credit 9.2 on an 11 hour duty day- that beats the hell out crediting 4.5 on an 8 hour duty that I routinely did at hub and spoke carriers-

You are pointing at the wrong people.

Crandall brought about hub and spoke- and somewhere along the way requiring pilots to sit around while a company exchanges passengers wasn't viewed as work. And soft time was considered getting something for nothing.
Soft time gets watered down and then legacy schedules (and all regionals that legacies created) need 20 days on to get to a reasonable credit and pay the bills

That's not on SWA

I have never worked more than 15 days in any month at SWA -
And no one I know has ever been forced to either

 

[HA25]

That's not on SWA

I have never worked more than 15 days in any month at SWA -
And no one I know has ever been forced to either

thats a good thing... you must have good rigs then, which is something I have to admit non of us legacy carriers do at the moment.. I stress "at the moment"

 

[waveflyer]

.76 Tfp/hour on duty

Bet your rig isn't an issue for your international crews since there aren't multi leg days- but what's your rig for the 717 drivers?

 

[HA25]

.76 Tfp/hour on duty

Bet your rig isn't an issue for your international crews since there aren't multi leg days- but what's your rig for the 717 drivers?

Did interisland for one year only and forgot but it wasn't much as I recall. Guys worked way too hard interisland side for their pay. We'll fix that I'm sure.

World wide side needs better pay for down time. Days sitting at the hotel, especially in international 4-5 day trips.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Buying Hawaiian would be the end of your "culture"

GK already put an end to that....

 

[HowardBorden]

The truth is, it's all simply generated by pilots "drooling" over buying HA. I work here, I hear pilots "drooling" over buying HA often.

I can unequivocally assure you I personally (and the vast majority of SWA pilots I have discussed it with) am in no way, shape or form "drooling" over buying Hawaiian, or any other airline for that matter. As a matter of fact I am hoping, begging and praying that SWA has zero acquisition plans in the future. Most of us have witnessed up close and personal the unintended consequences of mergers and acquisitions which is the exact reason most of us want to "just say no."

It is a silly proposition anyway for all of the reasons that have been identified here.

 

[FlyinGuy]

It is a silly proposition anyway for all of the reasons that have been identified here.

And that is why we should all be scared. Management likes to go against all reason!