Link to ExpressJet TA

ASADriver

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My question to you is why are you willing to give into fear-mongering and go backwards in your career? Stability at a company that is inevitably going to shrink no matter how the vote goes?
I'm not going backwards in my career. I don't like this TA, but overall I think it is acceptable given what I see around me. ALPA has failed all of us. Compared to the other TAs recently, this is moving forward. Don't like it, but it was it is.
 

ASADriver

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So what did they tell you to make you vote yes?
That given the recent agreements signed by other ALPA carriers this is as good as a contract gets. Without a JCBA, they are of the firm belief that the winddown will begin. They don't like it, but they believe it is what will happen. I know many of these guys, and I respect their opinion.
 

wrightbros

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I'm just so glad the here on the LXJT side we get a 75 hour MMG with vacation trip drops and the ASA side gets a 65 hour MMG, we keep our retirement over 3 years ASA doesn't drag us down even more by getting it and our Ins costs won't be as much! Yeah ...that was suppose to be a joke but yeah we get slowly phased out ASA gets nothin! Bring on the threats Co and union!
 

Oakum_Boy

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Why have you stayed so long if this isn't a great job?
Fair question. My answer is that is an "acceptable" job. Not great, and certainly not with the regressive TA they have presented.

Do you really want to be subject to being notified by a ramper about your being extended?

Having to check your messages and providing contact information on your layover?

Having your vacation "postponed" with 15 days notice?

Not given one iota of a raise on the 700 for the next 5+ years?

Being required to furnish a sick note?

Being paid only during aircraft movement? (Yes, this is the plan)

I haven't even begun to dig into the scheduling section.

It's a horrible agreement, and I firmly believe the plan to shrink the airline will happen one way or another. I'm still young enough to have 20+ years at a major or whomever will have me that has a better CBA. I have a degree and plenty of flight time. I stayed because I felt I was treated fairly and I enjoy my seniority. This agreement proves to me they will be changing that. Significantly.
 

wms

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fair question. My answer is that is an "acceptable" job. Not great, and certainly not with the regressive ta they have presented.

Do you really want to be subject to being notified by a ramper about your being extended?

Having to check your messages and providing contact information on your layover?

Having your vacation "postponed" with 15 days notice?

Not given one iota of a raise on the 700 for the next 5+ years?

Being required to furnish a sick note?

Being paid only during aircraft movement? (yes, this is the plan)

i haven't even begun to dig into the scheduling section.

It's a horrible agreement, and i firmly believe the plan to shrink the airline will happen one way or another. I'm still young enough to have 20+ years at a major or whomever will have me that has a better cba. I have a degree and plenty of flight time. I stayed because i felt i was treated fairly and i enjoy my seniority. This agreement proves to me they will be changing that. Significantly.
..+1..
 

ace6453

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After reading the unions bullet points it is even worse than thought.

"It should be noted that the vacation section was negotiated prior to the terms of the Endeavor (formerly Pinnacle) agreement, and the scope agreements at Delta and United. This section is one of the best representations of merging language from the two properties. The Company did not seek any concessions in this section and accepted most of the language developed through our internal JNC negotiations."

So the union decided to F the ASA pilots and reduce vacation low to a 65 hour MMG and then limit usage. All the while the XJT guys keep their vacation status quo??? WTF is going on over there?

I also like if you set your PCT below 75 and your line is below 75 your MMG is reduced. WTF??? After reading the bullet points it seems the company convinced the union to reduce or eliminate all the good things with our PBS. If this passes, PBS will start to suck balls. The window moves to 15 or 20 hours instead of 30. This is complete shyt.
 

Freebrd

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Raises every 1 1/2 years, small ones at that. Hats? We have to wear fuc@&$g hats now because DAL does?

NO!
 

Medeco

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Remember when Skywest and Jerry promised to transfer the 700's soon after they purchased us? They did, 2, I think, and then they decided it was a lot more expensive to do than they thought and made excuses otherwise until they answered q's with the analyst and the truth came out.

Like others have stated, plenty of non monetary concessions that are simply not needed other than control to treat us like high school kids asking for a pass to go to the bathroom.

No!
 

Oakum_Boy

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Like others have stated, plenty of non monetary concessions that are simply not needed other than control to treat us like high school kids asking for a pass to go to the bathroom.

No!
THIS!

I feel like I'm being asked to put myself in the penitentiary to be violated by some knuckle-dragging G.O. goon.
 

ASADriver

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Fair question. My answer is that is an "acceptable" job. Not great, and certainly not with the regressive TA they have presented.
You're quote was:

"This isn't that great of a job anyway."

This TA is very close to the current book. I think it is slightly better, but it is very close either way. I don't understand why you would stay here that long if you don't think this is "that great of a job anyway". Something doesn't add up.

I don't like the TA. However I don't really understand why somebody like you stayed here so long and now all of a sudden this job isn't "that great".

The TA isn't "regressive". It isn't what I want. It isn't much of an increase. But it really isn't much different than what we have. Given what our fellow pilots have negotiated, how is this so much worse than what we currently have. How will voting it down help our situation.
 

Oakum_Boy

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You're quote was:

"This isn't that great of a job anyway."

This TA is very close to the current book. I think it is slightly better, but it is very close either way. I don't understand why you would stay here that long if you don't think this is "that great of a job anyway". Something doesn't add up
The job isn't great but in terms of aviation jobs, it's acceptable, which isn't something that can be said for many pilot jobs.

I'm loyal if I feel I'm being treated fairly. It's clear that going forward the company intends to treat me like a school-age criminal.

Dump the denigrating, gratuitous language about me being tied to screw scheduling while I'm out with friends on a 20hr layover, and subject to disciplinary action should I decline a junior man assignment because I've had a glass of wine, and we might be in better shape on the agreement.

Pay me from brake released/doors closed- to brake set/door open, I'm amenable to an agreement.

Don't force me to take a DHD back to domicile and take a PAX seat in the process just to get paid....again, I might be amenable.

I'm sorry to disappoint, but I'm not even finished with the gratuitous language. It goes on and on in this thing.
 

ASADriver

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The job isn't great but in terms of aviation jobs, it's acceptable, which isn't something that can be said for many pilot jobs.

I'm loyal if I feel I'm being treated fairly. It's clear that going forward the company intends to treat me like a school-age criminal.

Dump the denigrating, gratuitous language about me being tied to screw scheduling while I'm out with friends on a 20hr layover, and subject to disciplinary action should I decline a junior man assignment because I've had a glass of wine, and we might be in better shape on the agreement.

Pay me from brake released/doors closed- to brake set/door open, I'm amenable to an agreement.

Don't force me to take a DHD back to domicile and take a PAX seat in the process just to get paid....again, I might be amenable.

I'm sorry to disappoint, but I'm not even finished with the gratuitous language. It goes on and on in this thing.
What the heck are you talking about. The pay language is the same as it is now. Where do you get you can't drink wine on the overnight? Most of the issues you bring up aren't even issues.
 

wms

billSquared
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I'm not going backwards in my career. I don't like this TA, but overall I think it is acceptable given what I see around me. ALPA has failed all of us. Compared to the other TAs recently, this is moving forward. Don't like it, but it was it is.
This TA is NOT moving forward. It may not be as bad as some other contracts but it is concessionary in every way.
-Any increase in pay rate is negated by new ways of calculating pay.
-MMG formulas for vacation will result in thousands of dollars lost.
-OCC mis-managers have complete control of off time on overnights.
-Pay increases at longer intervals for the few who get them.
-Total Skd control of alt dhd approval and release from duty.
-Clearly this has more to do with mgmt power trips than economics because simple qol improvements would cost them nothing.

You're really ok with being treated like that and losing thousands of dollars per year to boot?
 

Oakum_Boy

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They are issues. If one thing is clear, Inc. has a policy of enforcing its policies and exploiting our contract to their advantage.

Just how many grievances do our pilots have against the co. for things that no one ever thought as being legal under Contract 2007?

The language is there for a reason. To think otherwise is naive.

And for the record, why exactly do you think the company wishes me to check my messages on an overnight? To wish me bon appetit?
 

slick1

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As an outsider, I would think that a company, which is in an industry that is now faced with a shortage of employee talent, (i.e. "pilot shortage"), would take this opportunity to cement an industry-leading CBA, thereby giving themselves a distinct advantage over competitors when it comes to attracting and retaining one of its most vital and scarce resources - pilots.

But hey, I'm no Harvard MBA or JD, so what do I know?
 

Oakum_Boy

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What, dude tell me you're not serious
"unless required by the mainline partner"

Relax, it's not mandatory. But I could be wrong since DL is deep in the regional business now.
 
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