Link to ExpressJet TA

[ASADriver]

Why?.... What's the alternative?

You're not going to like it.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

You're not going to like it.

What, freedom?

 

[ASADriver]

Fair question. My answer is that is an "acceptable" job. Not great, and certainly not with the regressive TA they have presented.

You're quote was:

"This isn't that great of a job anyway."

This TA is very close to the current book. I think it is slightly better, but it is very close either way. I don't understand why you would stay here that long if you don't think this is "that great of a job anyway". Something doesn't add up.

I don't like the TA. However I don't really understand why somebody like you stayed here so long and now all of a sudden this job isn't "that great".

The TA isn't "regressive". It isn't what I want. It isn't much of an increase. But it really isn't much different than what we have. Given what our fellow pilots have negotiated, how is this so much worse than what we currently have. How will voting it down help our situation.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

You're quote was:

"This isn't that great of a job anyway."

This TA is very close to the current book. I think it is slightly better, but it is very close either way. I don't understand why you would stay here that long if you don't think this is "that great of a job anyway". Something doesn't add up

The job isn't great but in terms of aviation jobs, it's acceptable, which isn't something that can be said for many pilot jobs.

I'm loyal if I feel I'm being treated fairly. It's clear that going forward the company intends to treat me like a school-age criminal.

Dump the denigrating, gratuitous language about me being tied to screw scheduling while I'm out with friends on a 20hr layover, and subject to disciplinary action should I decline a junior man assignment because I've had a glass of wine, and we might be in better shape on the agreement.

Pay me from brake released/doors closed- to brake set/door open, I'm amenable to an agreement.

Don't force me to take a DHD back to domicile and take a PAX seat in the process just to get paid....again, I might be amenable.

I'm sorry to disappoint, but I'm not even finished with the gratuitous language. It goes on and on in this thing.

 

[ASADriver]

The job isn't great but in terms of aviation jobs, it's acceptable, which isn't something that can be said for many pilot jobs.

I'm loyal if I feel I'm being treated fairly. It's clear that going forward the company intends to treat me like a school-age criminal.

Dump the denigrating, gratuitous language about me being tied to screw scheduling while I'm out with friends on a 20hr layover, and subject to disciplinary action should I decline a junior man assignment because I've had a glass of wine, and we might be in better shape on the agreement.

Pay me from brake released/doors closed- to brake set/door open, I'm amenable to an agreement.

Don't force me to take a DHD back to domicile and take a PAX seat in the process just to get paid....again, I might be amenable.

I'm sorry to disappoint, but I'm not even finished with the gratuitous language. It goes on and on in this thing.

What the heck are you talking about. The pay language is the same as it is now. Where do you get you can't drink wine on the overnight? Most of the issues you bring up aren't even issues.

 

[wms]

I'm not going backwards in my career. I don't like this TA, but overall I think it is acceptable given what I see around me. ALPA has failed all of us. Compared to the other TAs recently, this is moving forward. Don't like it, but it was it is.

This TA is NOT moving forward. It may not be as bad as some other contracts but it is concessionary in every way.
-Any increase in pay rate is negated by new ways of calculating pay.
-MMG formulas for vacation will result in thousands of dollars lost.
-OCC mis-managers have complete control of off time on overnights.
-Pay increases at longer intervals for the few who get them.
-Total Skd control of alt dhd approval and release from duty.
-Clearly this has more to do with mgmt power trips than economics because simple qol improvements would cost them nothing.

You're really ok with being treated like that and losing thousands of dollars per year to boot?

 

[Oakum_Boy]

They are issues. If one thing is clear, Inc. has a policy of enforcing its policies and exploiting our contract to their advantage.

Just how many grievances do our pilots have against the co. for things that no one ever thought as being legal under Contract 2007?

The language is there for a reason. To think otherwise is naive.

And for the record, why exactly do you think the company wishes me to check my messages on an overnight? To wish me bon appetit?

 

[goahead]

Raises every 1 1/2 years, small ones at that. Hats? We have to wear fuc@&$g hats now because DAL does?

NO!

What, dude tell me you're not serious

 

[slick1]

As an outsider, I would think that a company, which is in an industry that is now faced with a shortage of employee talent, (i.e. "pilot shortage"), would take this opportunity to cement an industry-leading CBA, thereby giving themselves a distinct advantage over competitors when it comes to attracting and retaining one of its most vital and scarce resources - pilots.

But hey, I'm no Harvard MBA or JD, so what do I know?

 

[Oakum_Boy]

What, dude tell me you're not serious

"unless required by the mainline partner"

Relax, it's not mandatory. But I could be wrong since DL is deep in the regional business now.

 

[blesko]

This TA is NOT moving forward. It may not be as bad as some other contracts but it is concessionary in every way.
-Any increase in pay rate is negated by new ways of calculating pay.
-MMG formulas for vacation will result in thousands of dollars lost.
-OCC mis-managers have complete control of off time on overnights.
-Pay increases at longer intervals for the few who get them.
-Total Skd control of alt dhd approval and release from duty.
-Clearly this has more to do with mgmt power trips than economics because simple qol improvements would cost them nothing.

You're really ok with being treated like that and losing thousands of dollars per year to boot?

Reserve CAs flying as FO's? Really? This was blocked at the CMO level a while back as there are separate trainable items for Category ILS approaches. Now, because the company can't staff, we put a reserve Captain flying a cat II approach to 1200 RVR on day 6, leg 5 at the end of a 10 hour day and FAR 117 minimum legal overnight, then not train them for the procedure as accomplished from the right seat, thus relying on memorized procedures. Checklists, from a Human Factors perspective (as many of you know I'm finishing a Masters in this next semester) prevents reliance upon memorized procedures, however this is no official checklist for this other than a QRH "briefing". The company preached SMS program has a risk level now that has increased significantly.

After fully starting a turnkey part 91 flight department including at least 1 turbojet powered airplane, routinely flying between left and right seats, is no big deal. However, if this is not accomplished at routine intervals, presents a far higher risk and much tougher to mitigate in the "threat and error management" mantra that the company tries to preach. The concept is great, as long as its bought off on in its entirety, which obviously, its not. So, something was given up in the interest of safety in terms of ALPA, and something was conceded for safety on behalf of the company.


Bryan

 

[OCP]

You're quote was:

"This isn't that great of a job anyway."

This TA is very close to the current book. I think it is slightly better, but it is very close either way. I don't understand why you would stay here that long if you don't think this is "that great of a job anyway". Something doesn't add up.

I don't like the TA. However I don't really understand why somebody like you stayed here so long and now all of a sudden this job isn't "that great".

The TA isn't "regressive". It isn't what I want. It isn't much of an increase. But it really isn't much different than what we have. Given what our fellow pilots have negotiated, how is this so much worse than what we currently have. How will voting it down help our situation.

How is this close to current book? I see nothing but things being taken away that we currently have. Other than payrates not going down. What is current book about this?

 

[Oakum_Boy]

But hey, I'm no Harvard MBA or JD, so what do I know?

Neither are regional airline management, btw.

 

[Plainsman]

So, how to we dump our Union. They don't support me so why should I have to support them with my dues. We need to dump them and get one list with skywest.

 

[COOPERVANE]

You're not going to like it.

Why would you answer someone who asks you a direct question like "why....whats the alternative" with "your not gonna like it"

Why the secretive cryptic answer? Either you dont have a clue or you are being a azz!! What do you think you know? What have you learned "from talking to the reps" and why cant you discuss it here?