Legacy Bashfest - Bring it on!

[banned username 2]

Here's a comparison to help stir the pot a little:

TEB to OAK, SFO as an alternate. 325 lb payload (1 passenger plus luggage and crew luggage), optium routing and altitudes per JetPlan. Max fuel, except GV, I used 5000 lb landing fuel.

EMB - 5+37, 13429 burn and FL350, step 390 3+00 hrs into flight. M.78 cruise (max allowed in JetPlan), and 4387 lbs remaining at alternate. Max passenger load for this flight could be up to 10.
F2TH - 6+00, 9216 burn and FL430, step 470 3+15 hrs into flight. M75 cruise (in order to land with 2000 lbs), and 2265 lbs remaining at alternate. Max passenger load for this mission could be up to 4.
GV - 5+24, 14,480 burn and FL430, step to 470 1+00 hrs into flight. M83 cruise (standard cruise for us), and 5000 lbs remaining at alternate. The max passenger load for this flight could be up to 16 (really 19).

Looks like the Falcon could be in trouble here

I don't see any trouble... KTEB - KOAK, KSFO alternate...

Falcon 50EX - 5+29, 11,732 burn and FL390, step 430 0+45 hrs into flight. M82 cruise and 3,150 lbs remaining at alternate. Max passenger load for this mission could be up to 9. (Could land with 3,800 lbs if departed full fuel)
Runway Required (15°C, no wind): 4,420 ft, 2nd Segment Climb OEI: 6.3%

Falcon 900EX - 5+27, 12,280 burn and FL390, step 430 3+00 hrs into flight. M82 cruise and 3,000 lbs remaining at alternate. Max passenger load for this mission could be up to 12 (well really 19). (Could land with 8,720 lbs if departed full fuel)
Runway Required (15°C, no wind): 3,990 ft, 2nd Segment Climb OEI: 9.3%

 

[semperfido]

GV - 5+24, 14,480 burn and FL430, step to 470 1+00 hrs into flight. M83 cruise

most people i know would fly this @ m85 in a g5 plus most g5s probably don't carry 16 pax

 

[fokkerjet]

Both the Falcon and Gulfstream are in our fleet, so I used our BOW's, SOP and configurations......I have no idea what's correct or not with the Legacy; the BOW came from Embraer's website, and performance was from Jeppesen.

Falcon 2000 - Runway Required (15c, no wind): 5,830 ft, 2nd Segment Climb OEI: 3.9%.

Since you say the data is wrong, why don't you contribute with the Legacy's correct numbers...........

In this example, the Falcon is at max gross with 4 passengers, the WSofD is at about 96% with 10, and the Gulfstream is somewhere around 80% with 16......GVFlyer could provide much better data, but I believe the G350 would come in at around 98%, but that's with 16 passengers still.

 

[GVFlyer]

most people i know would fly this @ m85 in a g5 plus most g5s probably don't carry 16 pax

Although normal cuise fo the G550 is M 0.85, the jet burns 7.7 percent less fuel at M 0.83. With the current high fuel prices some operators have elected to cruise at M 0.83 to save fuel. Gulfstream provides cruise charts for M 0.80, M 0.83, M 0.85 and M 0.87, with 8 passenger ranges of 6,750 nm, 6,500 nm, 6,000 nm, and 5,000 nm respectively. You're right, statistics show that the average passenger load for the GV/G550 is six, but I think Fokkerjet was showing a maximum capability for the fuel burn as oppossed to a normalized pasenger load..

GV

 

[semperfido]

Although normal cuise fo the G550 is M 0.85, the jet burns 7.7 percent less fuel at M 0.83. With the current high fuel prices some operators have elected to cruise at M 0.83 to save fuel. Gulfstream provides cruise charts for M 0.80, M 0.83, M 0.85 and M 0.87, with 8 passenger ranges of 6,750 nm, 6,500 nm, 6,000 nm, and 5,000 nm respectively. You're right, statistics show that the average passenger load for the GV/G550 is six, but I think Fokkerjet was showing a maximum capability for the fuel burn as oppossed to a normalized pasenger load..

GV

i agree with that

 

[LegacyDriver]

Since you say the data is wrong, why don't you contribute with the Legacy's correct numbers...........

I am currently homeless and internetless so I can't help much. All my books are in the airplane and it is out making money without me today.

Silver posted some info from the EMB book. Perhaps he will pop in here.

Last airplane's BOW was 29,500 range...

No performance numbers exist for max climb to 390 then cruise, either. I would have to dig them out of the FMS next week to give you "real world" figures. I am also waiting to see if EMB revises the AOM for FL410 performance. I am told they are going to use the 390 numbers for 410 which is going to be a conservative approach that will not show the airplane's true worth.

 

[banned username 2]

the WSofD is at about 96% with 10

I think it is important that we clarify something here...

Is it WSofD or WSCofD? Is it "Shítcan" or "Shít Can"... I'm thinking the former vs. the latter... Does everyone else agree???

 

[LegacyDriver]

Someone in the tower called us a Gulfstream the other day. I was so insulted. What was worse is some ground controller told us (sometime earlier in the week) to give way to an Embraer. It was a Global Express. YUCK.

 

[banned username 2]

Someone in the tower called us a Gulfstream the other day. I was so insulted. What was worse is some ground controller told us (sometime earlier in the week) to give way to an Embraer. It was a Global Express. YUCK.

But I bet you wish you were paid like those guys! It's all about dollars and days off...

 

[LegacyDriver]

It's not at all about money but I guarantee you I have more days off. And that's worth all the money in the world.

At least he didn't call me a Falcon. I would have had to puke.

 

[LegacyDriver]

BTW I may not be in the Gulfstream class (I have yet to meet a G-driver that makes what NBAA claims, but...) but I make a hell of a lot more than I did at the Regionals *AND* get more time off.

 

[TAG2]

It's not at all about money but I guarantee you I have more days off.

Days off while the can is in MX don't count.

 

[TAG2]

BTW I may not be in the Gulfstream class (I have yet to meet a G-driver that makes what NBAA claims, but...) but I make a hell of a lot more than I did at the Regionals *AND* get more time off.

I made $483,389,921.32 just last week.

Your posts are just getting more and more ridiculous, so I thought I would just make up some numbers in my head for ya.

 

[AA717driver]

No autothrottles? Are you $h!tting me?

Glad you have a good deal, LD, that's what it's all about.

My only experience with the EMB is following one out of STL in the 717. We were both heading south and we step climbed and were speed restricted all the way to cruise where we could get above him. He was going to SHV and we to IAH. Had to drop all my trips that month just to keep from pulling my hair out...

Oh yeah, $h!tcan is one word.TC

 

[NJAFracPilot]

Hell if the Legacy was a $30 M airplane we wouldn't be calling it a POS. It would be a "prestige" product or whatever nonsense you guys spout to justify the Peachjet's overpriced tag..

No, the Legacy would still be a POS and you'd still be a dope.