Legacy Bashfest - Bring it on!

[fokkerjet]

On the other hand, the EMB seems to make a pretty good airliner... The Gulfstream and Falcons would make terrible airliners... Purpose built aircraft should remain in the catagory they were built for... You don't see many BBJ's around, mainly because it makes for a pretty poor Corporate jet, just like you don't see any G-550's parked at Gate G6 at ORD...
QUOTE]

I remember a quote from Airbus claiming that the resale value of their A319CJ would be better than Boeing's BBJ because when Boeing mated the -800 wing onto the -700 fuselage, it created an unique aircraft type that would limit its potential resale customer base to only other corporate operators (or freight), thus lowering its resale value. Airbus, on the other hand, basically just added extra fuel tanks to a "stock" A319, giving CJ customers a larger resale market (and price) because all you had to do was remove the extra fuel tanks and you could sell the aircraft to an airline. With the Legacy, you have the same problem as the BBJ.......who's going to want this thing when it comes time to sell it? The resale market for the Legacy will probably be pretty small to begin with, then when FLOPs and Swift start unloading theirs, they will flood the market, driving the price down even further.

Anybody remember the G-159C's? GI's that were stretched and operated as 36 passenger commuter planes for Chaparrel Airlines. Also, a few straight GI's were modified into 24 passenger commuter planes over in Europe.

 

[LegacyDriver]

LegacyDriver needs to get back under the porch with the rest of the pups. He's not ready to run with the big dogs.

Why? Because I can't hurl insults as well as the mob here or because I am dealing with people who cannot follow an argument?

The Legacy compares with lots of airplanes in different ways. As far as Gulfstreams go, this airplane will do the average Gulfstream mission for a fraction of the cost. It has a large cabin and is extremely reliable. Graet so a 6' + guy can't stand up completely straight big deal. You are not standing that long any way.

This is a good ride. You will not get this much bang for your buck with any other airplane.

End of argument unless you just can't read.

 

[Heavy Set]

dude no one could give a sh1t

Hey dude, I give a $hit. This is an information/opinion board. If he wants to discuss the Legacy he is free to do so (he clearly is proud of his aircraft).

You, on the other hand, are free to not read the post and not respond. I am reading the post because I am interested in the aircraft.

Merry Christmas.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Oh one more thing--last I checked RJs weren't plummeting into the ground on a weekly basis. Considering their much higher exposure to risk (takeoffs and landings) I would suggest that a reworked airliner is going to go a long way toward extending one's lifespan (or rather not ending it prematurely).

 

[banned username 2]

This is a good ride. You will not get this much bang for your buck with any other airplane.

End of argument unless you just can't read.

So you try to start an argument, have your hat handed to you based on FACTS (not insults) and now try to convince yourself that you were right in the first place?

Your argument is as rediculous as saying "Why should airlines buy anything else but EMB's? And EMB can do everything a 747 can do for a LOT less money..."

The Legacy is an RJ in slightly different clothes, they'll sell some (just like Boeing sold some BBJ's) but they certainly aren't going to put a dent in any market share of any competitors...

Again, I posted all facts (from Embraer's and Gulfstream's web sites)... I didn't see you counter any of them, you are trying to focus on your self-preceived personal attacks... Which I don't really see...

When you come looking for a fight (i.e. starting this thread) you best be prepared for battle...

 

[banned username 2]

Oh one more thing--last I checked RJs weren't plummeting into the ground on a weekly basis. Considering their much higher exposure to risk (takeoffs and landings) I would suggest that a reworked airliner is going to go a long way toward extending one's lifespan (or rather not ending it prematurely).

Oh give me a break... Lets get back to that EMB (or actually 2 EMB's) that the tails broke off of??? What was that about "strong"???

 

[LegacyDriver]

I could have easily flown over 9 hours. The airplane performs better than the book. I am betting the website stats are for the Legacy I / Shuttle. Get with the program. The plane is better than that.

As for strength, the design load was exceeded by a tremendous margin and the gear held. A Gulfstream woulda poked the struts right through the wing (if they did not snap first). Nobody killed, plane taxied off runway under its own power. This is proof of the airplane's toughness. There isn't an airplane in the corporate world I can think of that would survive a smacking like that!

 

[satpak77]

dude Legacy kicks azz and Gulfstream sucks, and the entire aviation industry knows that

now please go away

 

[NJAFracPilot]

This kind of personal insulting belongs in the non-aviation related chat section

Sit down and shut-up little boy, your vote will count when you've earned it. The captains want to talk.

As far as Gulfstreams go, this airplane will do the average Gulfstream mission for a fraction of the cost

Listen-up, dip$hit. You missed the part where GV pointed out that the GV was half again bigger than the Legacy and only cost less than 20% more to operate. Then if you add in the fact that the Gulfstreams are actually worth something on the used market - it may actually be cheaper to fly the Gulfstream then the Brazilian pig.

Someday, I'd like to fly the Gulfstream. I think it's the best corporate jet made. If I had to fly the Legacy, I'd think I'd been demoted and I know I'd take a pay cut.

GV knows his stuff. So does FalconCaptain. Both of them have posted a lot of verifiable facts, all you've posted is your sorry-a$$ opinion.

Like I said before: Weak, dude, really weak.

 

[banned username 2]

I could have easily flown over 9 hours. The airplane performs better than the book. I am betting the website stats are for the Legacy I / Shuttle. Get with the program. The plane is better than that.

The numbers from the Embraer web site were for the Legacy Executive, NOT the Legacy Shuttle... The Legacy Shuttle only has a range of 1,700 NM at Mach 0.78... The Legacy Executive claimed 8:02 (at Mach 0.74) would leave you with about 2,130 lbs of fuel (16,100 lbs burned)... At 9:00 you would have been tanks dry... (18,170 lbs max fuel capacity minus the 16,100 burn for 8:02 minus another 2,126 lbs for 0:58 more mins to make 9:00 (You stated 1,100 lbs per side/hr at FL390)... so 16,100 + 2,126 = 18,226 which is 56 lbs beyond max fuel capacity)... So you actually would have ran dry at about 8+58... So you are right, you could have done over 9 hours... because it would have taken you probably about 15 mins to glide down from FL390 to the ground after your tanks ran dry at 8+58... So 9+13 in the air is a possibility... Once...

As for strength, the design load was exceeded by a tremendous margin and the gear held. A Gulfstream woulda poked the struts right through the wing (if they did not snap first). Nobody killed, plane taxied off runway under its own power. This is proof of the airplane's toughness. There isn't an airplane in the corporate world I can think of that would survive a smacking like that!

Uh, the crew on one of the accidents stated that they weren't even aware the tail broke, stated that no unusal landing forces were noted... EMB later added strengthening and stiffing to the aft fuselage...

 

[LegacyDriver]

#1 Anyone smart enough to work up a 500 million dollar deal is going to be smart enough to schedule an ontime arrival regardless the equipment (that had to be the dumbest argument ever made).

#2 The ERJ was no louder or bumpier than the CRJ and I have definitely been in both enough to know (though the CRJ gave me the biggest glute cramp in the history of mankind).

 

[banned username 2]

You still have yet to post any solid, verifiable facts... all you have been spouting is your opinion, which isn't holding any water...

The Legacy has shorter range, needs more runway, flies slower, flies lower, has a shorter cabin (height) and is noisier than the Gulfstreams...

Yeah, it costs less... But then again, so does a Yugo... Remember you get what you pay for...

Perhaps it should be renamed the LAGacy...

 

[LXJ31]

#2 The ERJ was no louder or bumpier than the CRJ and I have definitely been in both enough to know (though the CRJ gave me the biggest glute cramp in the history of mankind).

I have a different opinion about that. My rides on ERJ aircraft have generally sucked, but maybe its just my bad luck. While I have no great love for riding on a CRJ either, the ride WAS a little more comfortable overall. The lavatory of the ERJ was usually....fragrant, you wouldn't want to sit too close.

But, thats just my experience.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I love how my argument gets twisted within one post of explaining it for the fourth time. NJFrac I order you to remedial reading class. Dismissed!

Can we get back to the point. The main planes I am using for comparison outside or reliability are the II, III, and IV. We are all well aware of the V's performance when it isn't inthe hangar for MX!

 

[LegacyDriver]

At least you can stand up in the ERJ lav. That CRJ gives me a stiff neck when I try to go whiz.

If the lav stank it was cuz nobody thought to have it serviced. Any lav gets rank eventually.

 

[banned username 2]

I love how my argument gets twisted within one post of explaining it for the fourth time. NJFrac I order you to remedial reading class. Dismissed!

Can we get back to the point. The main planes I am using for comparison outside or reliability are the II, III, and IV. We are all well aware of the V's performance when it isn't inthe hangar for MX!

Forget the G-II and G-III as they have long since been out of production... The G-450 and G-550 are VERY reliable aircraft with extremely high dispatch reliability ratings...

You still have provided absolutely nothing beyond your own personal opinion... When are the facts coming??? If they aren't, you might as well end this comical comparison right here...

 

[SkyGirl]

Forget the G-II and G-III as they have long since been out of production... The G-450 and G-550 are VERY reliable aircraft with extremely high dispatch reliability ratings...

You still have provided absolutely nothing beyond your own personal opinion... When are the facts coming??? If they aren't, you might as well end this comical comparison right here...

Great post, Falcon Capt! You make good points. You can find many sources that show the G450/G550 dispatch rates are far higher than those of the Legacy.

But, I still think you guys are arguing with some pimply-faced kid sitting in front of his PC having just completed a hot session of Microsoft Flight Simulator with his spanking new Legacy module featuring the new Mach .92 optional software.

-SkyGirl-

 

[sleepy]

There is no sense in just picking on the Gulfstream guys, how does your Legacy stack-up to the Global Express and the DA-7X?

Does the legacy come with any inertial navigation system? Is it certified for extended flight over uninhabited terrain?

Isn't the Legacy the same size tube as the EMB-145, and thus the EMB-120?

We are looking at the 7X. Dassault says that it will be able to fly non-stop from LA to Tokyo with 8 pax, a crew of 4, 85% prob winds, and NBAA reserves. How does your Legacy compair on the same trip?

 

[mmmdonut]

The Legacy....needs more runway....than the Gulfstreams...

I seriously doubt that.

 

[capt_zman]

mmmdonut, check the numbers. The Legacy needs over 5500' to go 3200 nm at Mach .74. The G450 needs 5450' to go 4350 nm at M.80. The G350 needs 5050' to go 3800 nm at M. 80.

See what everyone is talking about? Legacy can't even come close.