Legacy Bashfest - Bring it on!

[JetBlast2000]

G350 Specifications v. Legacy - 8 passengers, ISA, NBAA IFR Fuel Reserves
GV

While I don’t doubt most of your numbers, a previous post I made (#368) has trip numbers that don’t seem to add up. Any comment?
I’ve not been able to find where it says the Legacy cannot climb to FL390 direct.

The fuel load is actually 18328lbs after s/n 625

The A1E engine produces 8810lbs

Also, based on the numbers in your post, the G350 is 8% faster and the 3200nm trip would be completed about 32 min faster…

I took the liberty of highlighting in RED (for WSofDDriver a.k.a. Skull-One) some of the finer, more interesting points of GVFlyer's post...

You guys are relentless… Not that he doesn’t deserve it…


Can we stop, choose sides again and start over?




.

 

[FracCapt]

WSofD achieves it's max range at a measly M0.74
WSofD "High Speed Cruise" is a measly M0.78
WSofD can only go up to FL390 (yeah, yeah, new software... we know)
WSofD needs nearly 6,000 ft of runway for max range (over 700 ft more than G-350)
WSofD has an 8,800 ft cabin at FL410, have you ever spent 8 hours at an 8,800 ft cabin? Talk about fatigue! The New Global Express is offering a 4,500ft cabin at FL450... Why??? Because it makes a serious difference...
WSofD has a max payload (with full fuel) of 1,000 lbs (5 passengers) LESS than the G-350... That "Big" cabin but yet you can't take everyone with!
WSofD actually has a SMALLER cabin than the G-350...
WSofD has a higher trip cost than the G-350...

But....but....but....the NEW Legacy OUTPERFORMS the book numbers in every regard!

 

[suen1843]

The Subaru Legacy is a crossbreed car that's been designed to meet the needs and desires of today's buyers. It was created to appeal to those people who want the ruggedness and AWD abilities of a Sport-Ute but who do not want the poor ride, bad gas mileage, and large step-up of a normal Sport-Ute. The car features AWD (type varies with transmission), aggressive looks, more ground clearance than a normal passenger car, and a large interior space. It also gets over 25 MPG on the highway and rides more like a sport sedan than anything else. It can also outperform a Sport-Ute in many accident-avoidance and bad-weather manouvers, and independent testing by IMSA has shown that it is even better on bad terrain than other compact Sport-Utes.

I think all the Mercedes and Rolls owners will be switching to the Legacy pretty soon.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I guess you can fly INTERNATIONAL in a WSCoD.....

http://www.avcrew.com/jobs/pilots/jobs.htm#0103

Legacy Captain (China) 1/03

Macau-based (China) flight department is seeking a EMB-145BJ (Legacy) Captain to operate worldwide. Ideal candidate will have an FAA ATP, First Class medical certificate, EMB-145 type rating, 5000 hours total time, 100 hours in type, extensive corporate and international experience, and a willingness to relocate overseas. We offer an attractive compensation package and the opportunity to work with other high-caliber professionals in one of Asia's top flight departments. If you meet the above qualifications and would like to join our team of professionals, please email your complete resume to [email protected]. Don't forget to mention AvCrew.com when applying.

NO WAY JP500...

they folded up that planes wings and shipped the whole POS via FED-EX in a big crate in an MD11.

If it tried to fly from $hithole, Brazil to Macau at .43 mach (long range cruise) it would still be enroute after 3.5 years (at FL 390 - software) and heading for its 23rd fuel stop somewhere near Guam!!!

Legacy baby....there IS no substitute.


...

 

[English]

OMG I can't stop laughing...WSCoD...

gulfstream 200, I think your post belongs on the top ten funniest posts on flightinfo.

 

[JetBlast2000]

GVFlyer[/b]] G350 Specifications v. Legacy - 8 passengers, ISA, NBAA IFR Fuel Reserves
GV

I also come up with max cruise of M.76 at 234 Kts FL390...

Do you have a computer program you run the numbers in?

 

[banned username 2]

NO WAY JP500...

they folded up that planes wings and shipped the whole POS via FED-EX in a big crate in an MD11.

If you tried to fly the WSofD on any real International missions you would most certainly be "Doomed"...

You know, there is a much cheaper way to get to your international destinations (since WSofDDriver, i.e. Skull-One) is so concerned about cost... Perhaps you could jam your boss into a FedEx box and put a lable on it... Watch out so he doesn't get a nasty papercut!

http://www.fedex.com/us/about/advertising/tvads/dramawm.html?link=4

 

[Gulfstream 200]

If you tried to fly the WSofD on any real International missions you would most certainly be "Doomed"...

You know, there is a much cheaper way to get to your international destinations (since WSofDDriver, i.e. Skull-One) is so concerned about cost... Perhaps you could jam your boss into a FedEx box and put a lable on it... Watch out so he doesn't get a nasty papercut!

http://www.fedex.com/us/about/advertising/tvads/dramawm.html?link=4

Awwwww, thanks Capt...

now instead of flying G212 in a comfy bizjet we will be drop shipping all our CEO's to China - and you and I will be unemployed - knocking on the door at XYZ regional hoping to fly a WSofD for $9/hr...

thanks a lot...

say it with me Capt....."Newark-Cleveland-Newark-Cleveland-Newark-Cleveland-Newark...."

.

 

[banned username 2]

Awwwww, thanks Capt...

now instead of flying G212 we will be drop shipping all our CEO's to China - and you and I will be knocking on the door at XYZ regional hoping to fly a WSofD for $9/hr...

thanks a lot...

say it with me....."Newark-Cleveland-Newark-Cleveland-Newark-Cleveland-Newark...."

.

Then we could be just like Skull-One... uh, I mean WSofDDriver... uh, I mean LagacyDriver... uh... oh forget it... Is Truckmasters hiring???

 

[GVFlyer]

While I don’t doubt most of your numbers, a previous post I made (#368) has trip numbers that don’t seem to add up. Any comment?

Yes, in post #368 which you quoted, FokkerJet accurately quoted performance numbers for the $43 million GV's which his company operates. My performance numbers were for the $27.5 million G350.

I’ve not been able to find where it says the Legacy cannot climb to FL390 direct.

Because Gulfstream does not consider the Legacy to be a corporate jet, Performance Engineering has not done a competitive analysis on it. Subsequently, the performance I quoted is from Conklin & DeDecker Fall 2004. If you go to the Legacy web site their performance tab shows the Legacy going directly to FL390 then stepping up to FL410 after slightly more than 2 hours. As this is not yet a reality, I chose to go with proven data.

The fuel load is actually 18328lbs after s/n 625

Noted, the Legacy carries 158 lbs more fuel than recorded by C&D. The process for adding additional fuel, however, is questionable. Embraer has been squirreling away fuel in every available nook and cranny of the fuselage. All Gulfstream fuel is located in the wings, requires no fuel management and does not offer the risks associated with multiple fuselage fuel tanks.

The A1E engine produces 8810lbs

Again the data I quoted was from the most current edition of Conklin & DeDecker. I can find references giving the A1E as little as 7105 lbs of thrust; the Embraer Legacy website shows the identical 7,953 lbs of thrust that I quoted:

http://www.legacybyembraer.com/english/content/executive/engine.asp

Also, based on the numbers in your post, the G350 is 8% faster and the 3200nm trip would be completed about 32 min faster…

If the Legacy could fly 3200 nm at M 0.78 the G350 would be only 35 minutes quicker. But, it can't; in order to fly 3,200 nm the Legacy must do it at M 0.74. The G350 can fly 3,200 nm at M 0.85. Thus, M 0.74 X 1.15 (15%)= M 0.851, the G350's High Speed Cruise . Try it yourself.

To simplify: Legacy - 3200 nm / 424.575 kts (M 0.74) = 7 hours 32.2 minutes
G350 - 3200 nm / 487.695 kts (M 0.85) = 6 hours 33.7 minutes
The difference is 58.5 minutes.

If you were going West the difference would be greater as the G350 would be above the winds at FL450.

Regards,

GV

 

[CatYaaak]

[/font]

If you were going West the difference would be greater as the G350 would be above the winds at FL450.

Regards,

GV

WSCoDDriver doesn't know about this "above the winds" thing that one can enjoy operating up in the 40's. Or for that matter, the "above the turbulence" thing. Or the "above the weather" thing. You see, in his vast experience as a regional puke doing the "Newark the Cleveland thing", he's never been up there.

And since he's never been there (and oh shall we count all the other ways too?), he can't see how this could POSSIBLY be important, nor thinks his boss or (once again drawing upon his vast corporate experience)......indeed anyone's boss or Board, should factor this type of Flexibility/Comfort/Efficiency "tomfoolery into their aircraft procurement decisions.

Yes indeed, undoubtedly he can "enlighten" us, because the years he spent in the airline womb behind that locked cockpit door (where "Pax Comfort and Convenience" falls somewhere about #10 on the priority list and Mexico is considered "international) has leapfrogged him ahead in the arena of corporate aircraft knowledge.

Why, he's complely unfettered by an even fair-to-middlin' background of actual corporate flying experience that chains the rest of us down, and his utter lack of knowledge about aircraft already fulfilling the role that his woodie-producing WSCoD does keeps his viewpoint fresh and untainted! Best of all, his airline mentality brings to us not only the novel idea that "lower and slower is better", but also the piercing insight that you can best serve the company that pays your salary by having your fellow employees-pax arrive at their destination later....and more fatigued!

Dammnation! If only I'd learned long ago that there's no difference between revenue-flying bargain-hunting flip-flopped strangers... where you can tell them to sit down, shut up and "just be happy we're getting you there as cheaply as possible"... and the execs, corportations, etc, who shell out millions to buy what essentially amounts to transportation flexibility and time savings! Jaysus WSCoD Driver, you oughta be a consultant!

Of course, nothing can do all this....and soooo much more....better than a Yak.

 

[JetPilot500]

If you tried to fly the WSofD on any real International missions you would most certainly be "Doomed"...

[heard in the distance behind you] Dooooomed!

 

[banned username 2]

To simplify: Legacy - 3200 nm / 424.575 kts (M 0.74) = 7 hours 32.2 minutes

Oh say it isn't so!!!

I took a Legacy for 9 hours just to see if it could be done. We had enough gas to tool around longer if we wanted.

WSofDDriver claims he (and his expert airmanship) can keep the WSofD aloft for over 9 hours and still have plenty of fuel to "tool around longer if we wanted"...

So you're a Test Pilot now too??? Since Embraer (yes, the guys who built the WSofD, who would know it best) claims the WSofD has about 7+32 range (3,200 NM at Mach 0.74 mind you) you decided to see if you could keep "The Can" aloft for 9+ hours??? Hey folks, sounds like we have us a "cowboy" here...

The irony of this entire thread is the WSofD would have NEVER received this much negative attention had it not been for our friend LegacyDriver... uh... WSofDDriver... uh... Skull-One... or whatever he calls himself today... He came looking for a fight and has had his a$$ handed to him repeatedly with hard, cold facts... The only thing he comes back with are his personal opinions... Even the manufactures data on their marketing web site contradicts what WSofDDriver is claiming... But yet somehow, someway, he thinks he is right...

 

[LegacyDriver]

Falcon you are obviously infatuated with Skull-One. I think you need to see a shrink.

 

[banned username 2]

Falcon you are obviously infatuated with Skull-One. I think you need to see a shrink.

Check the e-mail address you registered with, I think you'll understand...

 

[suen1843]

Skull has been 'outed'

 

[JetBlast2000]

GV
The book number I have in front of me are slightly different than those you quoted from Conklin & DeDecker. And I’m not sure why Embraer’s web site is not updated. I suppose it’s just a low priority. If you’re serious about getting a Legacy, you’re probably going to talk to a sales rep anyway…But thanks for your replies.

Since I’m new to the a/c, I’ll have to get back to you with some real world number. However, as others have said the a/c is getting a bashing. From what I’ve seen so far, it’s a great a/c. I can only compare the Legacy to my mechanic days working on a Challenger 601 and Lears. I have spoken with some of the Flight Options guys who have some time in the a/c, and they have good things to say about the a/c.

But stay tuned; I’ll try to give you all an update in a few weeks or so…

 

[CatYaaak]

Since I’m new to the a/c, I’ll have to get back to you with some real world number. However, as others have said the a/c is getting a bashing. From what I’ve seen so far, it’s a great a/c. I can only compare the Legacy to my mechanic days working on a Challenger 601 and Lears. I have spoken with some of the Flight Options guys who have some time in the a/c, and they have good things to say about the a/c.

But stay toned; I’ll try to give you all an update in a few weeks or so…

Oh please don't be another guy who's lost his jet-virginity to a WSCoD and is now going to tell us how she's the best girl in the world to take for a ride. WSCoDDriver's beer-goggles on the subject are so thick he doesn't realize that his Beauty queen-of-airplanes is really more akin to a presenting mandrill.

"Friends don't let friends drive Legacys"

 

[JetBlast2000]

Oh please don't be another guy who's lost his jet-virginity to a WSCoD and is now going to tell us how she's the best girl in the world to take for a ride. WSCoDDriver's beer-goggles on the subject are so thick he doesn't realize that his Beauty queen-of-airplanes is really more akin to a presenting mandrill.

I don’t think I claimed it was the best ever… If you gotta get your cherry popped, it’s as good a plane as any.

"Friends don't let friends drive Legacys"

lol - You should have seen some of the a/c I’ve flown (135 Cargo). This WSCoD is ions better than the other WSCoD's I’ve flow…

 

[CatYaaak]

I don’t think I claimed it was the best ever… If you gotta get your cherry popped, it’s as good a plane as any.
QUOTE]

Indeed you didn't, and I suppose it is. Another good thing...as an A&P you won't be trying to tell us how an aircraft "never breaks" and that a short manufacturer's warranty is a reflection of this.