Legacy Bashfest - Bring it on!

[Gulfstream 200]

sounds to me like you ran into someone who cant "afford" (in his words) a real bizjet like a GV or a GLEX.

The day he can, you can bet he will ditch the WSoD.

niche -- corporate shuttle for mid level execs.

apples and oranges when comparing it to real long range bizjets.

Previous post is right....give it a rest for gods sakes!!!!

 

[LegacyDriver]

sounds to me like you ran into someone who cant "afford" (in his words) a real bizjet like a GV or a GLEX.

The day he can, you can bet he will ditch the WSoD.

niche -- corporate shuttle for mid level execs.

apples and oranges when comparing it to real long range bizjets.

Previous post is right....give it a rest for gods sakes!!!!

Yeah, well, he's one of the top 100 wealthiest men in the United States. He can afford anything he darned well pleases.

The Legacy is every bit as good a Corporate Jet as anything else you can name. It is proving itself over and over again to be more than adequate for the task.

All your moaning is sour grapes. You give it up.

 

[banned username 2]

If a Legacy will do the job for them for less money then the prudent person will buy it. It's that simple.

Here in lies the problem... It doesn't...

 

[LegacyDriver]

Here in lies the problem... It doesn't...

Herein lies your problem, it does. It covers the mission spectrum from the lowliest Citation to the G-IV without complaint. Every single day it does what most G-IVs are doing...for less.

 

[banned username 2]

Herein lies your problem, it does. It covers the mission spectrum from the lowliest Citation to the G-IV without complaint. Every single day it does what most G-IVs are doing...for less.

Flies non-stop 4,200 NM? Climbs direct to FL410 at MGTOW? Cruises at Mach 0.80 when it does get there? Continues the climb to FL450? Does all of this out of 5,400 ft of runway?

The G-IV does, the WSofD doesn't...

 

[JetBlast2000]

Flies non-stop 4,200 NM? Climbs direct to FL410 at MGTOW? Cruises at Mach 0.80 when it does get there? Continues the climb to FL450? Does all of this out of 5,400 ft of runway?

Well, no.

But it does come close… It also costs almost half as much and operates at a substantial savings per hour…

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Well, no.

But it does come close… It also costs almost half as much and operates at a substantial savings per hour…

And saving money is high on the priority list when selecting a bizjet to fit your needs.....

.

Thats how the rich got rich right?, by buying cheap $hit like Embryos..

 

[JetBlast2000]

And saving money is high on the priority list when selecting a bizjet to fit your needs.....

.

Thats how the rich got rich right?, by buying cheap $hit like Embryos..

Well,
I'm just saying that price IS a factor. Lets face it, the boss is always looking at the bottom line. None of this BS is cut and dry, and you can't make determinations based on ONE area alone. Is the Legacy the BEST corp. a/c... well, probably not. But, when you look as some of the numbers (below), the Legacy is not far off.

Here's a comparison to help stir the pot a little:

TEB to OAK, SFO as an alternate. 325 lb payload (1 passenger plus luggage and crew luggage), optium routing and altitudes per JetPlan. Max fuel, except GV, I used 5000 lb landing fuel.

EMB - 5+37, 13429 burn and FL350, step 390 3+00 hrs into flight. M.78 cruise (max allowed in JetPlan), and 4387 lbs remaining at alternate. Max passenger load for this flight could be up to 10.
F2TH - 6+00, 9216 burn and FL430, step 470 3+15 hrs into flight. M75 cruise (in order to land with 2000 lbs), and 2265 lbs remaining at alternate. Max passenger load for this mission could be up to 4.
GV - 5+24, 14,480 burn and FL430, step to 470 1+00 hrs into flight. M83 cruise (standard cruise for us), and 5000 lbs remaining at alternate. The max passenger load for this flight could be up to 16 (really 19).

Looks like the Falcon could be in trouble here

 

[Gulfstream 200]

greeeeat...LA to NY.

please run the Embryos numbers on RJAA-KTEB...a typical GV trip
(ever heard of Magadan?)

c'mon now...YOU ARE giving the G's and the Glex's a run for thier money right?

 

[LegacyDriver]

Flies non-stop 4,200 NM? Climbs direct to FL410 at MGTOW? Cruises at Mach 0.80 when it does get there? Continues the climb to FL450? Does all of this out of 5,400 ft of runway?

The G-IV does, the WSofD doesn't...

The average G-IV trip is not 4,200 NM. The average G-IV trip is precisely what everyone else is doing: 1200-1500 NM. Ignoring that, let's just call it NY-CA. That is the average trip for a G-IV. They are not going LAS to Europe on average. For crying out loud, the G-Strings are doing exactly what the Legacy(s) are...I see the same tail numbers over and over again.

When you need to go 4,200 NM then go in rented G-IV or make a fuel stop with the EMB on the rare occasion you go that far.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

who is doing 1200-1500 mile trips? -- oh yeah, the regional airlines!!!

dont talk big $hit if you are in the 1st grade, WSoD driver!!!

Embryo WSoD -- Newark-Cleveland-Newark. Packed full of animals. perfect market niche..

1200 mile legs....dude, you are getting wackier with every post!!!!

PS - dont let your boss rent a GIV - one ride and you will be out of a job and knocking on the door at Continental Express with your WSoD experience!


.

 

[LegacyDriver]

You are an idiot.

The average Corporate Jet leg (according to at least SOME surveys any way--I am sure GV has a different set of them) is 1200-1500 NM. So, we'll double that for the G-String and add some. The Legacy does the same thing. You know, most US Corporate jets do the bulk of their flying here in the States, Canada, and Mexico. The Legacy will do all of them just fine.

And if one wants to go to Tokyo from LA like my boss does from time to time, he goes FIRST CLASS on a 747. It's cheaper than a G-V can ever be...

Get a grip.

Oh, and one thing more, short duration, multi-cycle trips like the Regionals do are far more dangerous than going non-stop from SF to Tokyo. Most accidents occur during the takeoff and landing phases, not cruise. Thus, the Legacy/RJ's safety record is only that much more impressive. They are operating in the most dangerous environments and doing so perfectly thus far.

 

[banned username 2]

The average G-IV trip is not 4,200 NM. The average G-IV trip is precisely what everyone else is doing: 1200-1500 NM. Ignoring that, let's just call it NY-CA. That is the average trip for a G-IV. They are not going LAS to Europe on average. For crying out loud, the G-Strings are doing exactly what the Legacy(s) are...I see the same tail numbers over and over again.

When you need to go 4,200 NM then go in rented G-IV or make a fuel stop with the EMB on the rare occasion you go that far.

Gulfstreams regularly (NOT rarely) go from the East Coast into Europe and from the Midwest into Europe... Both of those trips would require a fuel stop in the WSofD... How about from Anchorage down into Asia? The WSofD would require a fuel stop in Russia (and get to use their "wonderful" runways!) PANC-RJBB, G-IV non-stop, no problem, WSofD would be swimming the last few hundred miles, but hey, at least they have a big coffin, I mean cabin...

Here are some "typical" trips that G-IV operators I know do... Yeah, they do run domestically also, but when it is time for the International stuff (which nearly 50% of their flying is) the G-IV can do both missions equally well... The WSofD might be a decent Domestic airplane (IF you have adequate runway), but it comes up way short in the International arena...

Non-Stop???
KORD-EDDM = 3,877 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
KTEB-LIRN = 3,828 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
KBOS-LGAV = 4,132 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
KDTW-EDDI = 3,693 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
KMSP-EDDF = 3,817 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
KAPA-EGLF = 4,075 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
KDFW-EGLL = 4,128 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
KFXE-EDDV = 4,176 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
KFLL-SABE = 3,829 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
KPDK-SBGL = 4,122 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
PANC-EGLF = 3,909 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
PANC-ZBAA = 3,442 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
RJCC-KSFO = 4,167 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no

 

[LegacyDriver]

Gulfstreams regularly (NOT rarely) go from the East Coast into Europe and from the Midwest into Europe... Both of those trips would require a fuel stop in the WSofD... How about from Anchorage down into Asia? The WSofD would require a fuel stop in Russia (and get to use their "wonderful" runways!) PANC-RJBB, G-IV non-stop, no problem, WSofD would be swimming the last few hundred miles, but hey, at least they have a big coffin, I mean cabin...

Here are some "typical" trips that G-IV operators I know do... Yeah, they do run domestically also, but when it is time for the International stuff (which nearly 50% of their flying is) the G-IV can do both missions equally well... The WSofD might be a decent Domestic airplane (IF you have adequate runway), but it comes up way short in the International arena...

Non-Stop???
KORD-EDDM = 3,877 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
KTEB-LIRN = 3,828 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
KBOS-LGAV = 4,132 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
KDTW-EDDI = 3,693 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
KMSP-EDDF = 3,817 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
KAPA-EGLF = 4,075 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
KDFW-EGLL = 4,128 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
KFXE-EDDV = 4,176 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
KFLL-SABE = 3,829 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
KPDK-SBGL = 4,122 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
PANC-EGLF = 3,909 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
PANC-ZBAA = 3,442 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no
RJCC-KSFO = 4,167 NM G-IV yes, WSofD no

EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Thanks for playing. I think the Legacy can go PANC-ZBAA just fine.

At any rate, why spend $36M plus $2000/hour to go there in a G-IV when:
1) a fractional share...
2) a first class jumbo jet ride...
or 3) a fuel stop in a Legacy costs much *much* less?

 

[banned username 2]

You are an idiot.

The average Corporate Jet leg (according to at least SOME surveys any way--I am sure GV has a different set of them) is 1200-1500 NM. So, we'll double that for the G-String and add some. The Legacy does the same thing. You know, most US Corporate jets do the bulk of their flying here in the States, Canada, and Mexico. The Legacy will do all of them just fine.

Let's remember this "Average Number" you like to use includes all the short range Corporate airplanes as well, such as the Citations, Lears, Hawkers, etc... Which outnumber the largers, long range aircraft... You are trying to compare the Lagacy with Gulfstreams, you have to use their average stage length info... And remember an average is just that, it means 1/2 the trips are longer and half are shorter...

And if one wants to go to Tokyo from LA like my boss does from time to time, he goes FIRST CLASS on a 747. It's cheaper than a G-V can ever be...

Get a grip.

You are so stuck in that airline mindset it is unbelieveable... In the Corporate World money isn't as big of a factor as it is to the airlines, we aren't directly generating revenue with these airplanes... I have done MANY trips to Asia with one passenger... It isn't that uncommon...

PS - dont let your boss rent a GIV - one ride and you will be out of a job and knocking on the door at Continental Express with your WSoD experience!

Don't forget, this is Skull-One you are talking to... Remember the "Wrongfully Terminated ERJ Captain"... Nothing is ever his fault and he is never wrong... He never did explain why he was terminated, but obviously it was bad enough that even his union couldn't haul his a$$ out of the fire...

 

[banned username 2]

EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Thanks for playing. I think the Legacy can go PANC-ZBAA just fine.

ROFLMAO... Once again, your ignorance is obvious... Have you ever looked at the winds along that route??? Especially in the Winter??? Of course not, because no one in their right mind would take a WSofD from PANC-ZBAA... Running it with average January winds, doing Mach 0.80 it shows a 8+24 flight time... I don't think the WSofD can stay in the air doing Mach 0.80 for an 8+24 leg and have any kind of realistic reserve upon landing...

Thanks for playing...

At any rate, why spend $36M plus $2000/hour to go there in a G-IV when:
1) a fractional share...
2) a first class jumbo jet ride...
or 3) a fuel stop in a Legacy costs much *much* less?

1. Why not just do Fractional all the time?
2. First Class is ALWAYS cheaper than a Legacy ride... on ANY stage length...
3. Have you done a fuel stop in Russia? Japan? Handling fee's can exceed $10,000 USD not to mention fuel can ge $5.00+ USD per gallon in some locations... Once again, your ignorance and Domestic only experience is utterly appearant...

 

[LegacyDriver]

ROFLMAO... Once again, your ignorance is obvious... Have you ever looked at the winds along that route??? Especially in the Winter??? Of course not, because no one in their right mind would take a WSofD from PANC-ZBAA... Running it with average January winds, doing Mach 0.80 it shows a 8+24 flight time... I don't think the WSofD can stay in the air doing Mach 0.80 for an 8+24 leg and have any kind of realistic reserve upon landing...

Thanks for playing...



1. Why not just do Fractional all the time?
2. First Class is ALWAYS cheaper than a Legacy ride... on ANY stage length...
3. Have you done a fuel stop in Russia? Japan? Handling fee's can exceed $10,000 USD not to mention fuel can ge $5.00+ USD per gallon in some locations... Once again, your ignorance and Domestic only experience is utterly appearant...

The only person ignorant here is you.

As previously stated, I took a Legacy for 9 hours just to see if it could be done. We had enough gas to tool around longer if we wanted.

I have been to Mexico and Russia among others and have yet to see a $10,000 handling fee.

As for Fractional-All-The-Time...that's what a lot of people are doing. The Legacy can handle the pounding. The Gulfstream can't. The Legacy is affordable. The Gulfstream isn't. There is a reason why fractionals are going away from the Gulfstream to the Legacy and it isn't because the Legacy is a POS.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Let's remember this "Average Number" you like to use includes all the short range Corporate airplanes as well, such as the Citations, Lears, Hawkers, etc... Which outnumber the largers, long range aircraft... You are trying to compare the Lagacy with Gulfstreams, you have to use their average stage length info... And remember an average is just that, it means 1/2 the trips are longer and half are shorter...

...

Don't forget, this is Skull-One you are talking to... Remember the "Wrongfully Terminated ERJ Captain"... Nothing is ever his fault and he is never wrong... He never did explain why he was terminated, but obviously it was bad enough that even his union couldn't haul his a$$ out of the fire...

Well you've certainly explained MEDIAN. How about explaining "average"? Average can mean that 9 legs are shorter and ONE leg is longer, idiot. To find out what G-Strings do most often try finding the MODE.

As for pulling asses out of the fire, Skull-One's termination...it was overturned and he was paid 11 months back pay. That's the way arbitration works. Unions don't keep one from getting canned, they are there (now since they are so weak) to get one's job *back* later. Ask *any* pilot at CHQ who has dealt with them, particularly Union Reps. The company's attitude is, "If you don't like it, grieve it." So get off your soap box on that subject and stick to the issues. (I talked to the Union's righthand man on this case so I know what I'm talking about here.)

 

[bigD]

Heh - calling Falcon Capt "ignorant" and an "idiot" isn't going to do you any favors, Mr. Legacy.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Heh - calling Falcon Capt "ignorant" and an "idiot" isn't going to do you any favors, Mr. Legacy.

I don't need favors from jerks like him.