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Kelly: SWA costs too high

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Actually he does get it and he is right. We have grown big, fat and lazy. Throw in the "manipulation" of the "system" and the horrendous sick leave utilization and the gap is narrowing quickly. Now lets further look at the number of vacation periods, F/Os routinely making 200K and you have the Titanic in the making.

Whatever dude. I make the money I make because I hustle and work my ass off. I don't abuse sick leave and me working the way I do helps the company. If you don't want to work as much as I do then don't do it. However, me exercising my contractual rights does not hurt SWA.

Maybe you would advocate giving up our profit sharing as well?
 
You're limited the same way I am: 100 hrs month, 1000 per year. Pretty much limited on productivity, and your group isn't getting any younger. As your group ages, everyone goes towards that highest 12th year payscale (like how American has been, except the flowthroughs from Eagle). In todays enviornment, with oil being over 100/barrel, 737 Captains making over $200k is unsustainable. Short term you are (and have been) doing okay, but long term, it's unsustainable. Take a long around you. The rest of the industry, through bankruptcy, has realigned their pay much lower than yours. You make more than 777 or 747 Captains at mainline, and those kinds of cost structures won't last. Something has to cave in, and this time, productivity won't be enough. Productivity can only be pushed so much when you are limited to work on duty hours (daily, monthly, yearly).

Alright Mr. economics, what is a sustainable 737 wage?
Mainline's 777 wage should be what you're focusing on not SW. What does that mean you should make in your unsustainable CRJ? You should have probably paid Pinnacle to come to work this month by your logic.

Southwest figured out a long time ago common sense money saving techniques that, even today, delta and other carriers can't match. (Training, aircraft usage, common type, fact they never wait 30 minutes for the ramp to show up) Look how much more Pinnacle is going to spend on training then Southwest. Should you have to pay for that too?

Pilots over-estimate their value to the airline almost as bad as they over-estimate their cost to the company. Airlines/airplanes are expensive, pilots are cheap (in more ways than one).

It's not what your worth, it's what you negotiate!

Quick fun fact from a family friend. He earned $98,000 dollars in 1978 on the 727. Adjusted for inflation that would be ~$345,000.

Pilots are a hell of a deal.

It's people like you that have f*&ked that up.
 
Southwest figured out a long time ago common sense money saving techniques that, even today, delta and other carriers can't match. (Training, aircraft usage, common type, fact they never wait 30 minutes for the ramp to show up) Look how much more Pinnacle is going to spend on training then Southwest. Should you have to pay for that too?

Not a tax expert, but do companies get a tax break for their training expenses? In the above case would Pinnacle get a bigger tax break than SWA?
 
Actually he does get it and he is right. We have grown big, fat and lazy. Throw in the "manipulation" of the "system" and the horrendous sick leave utilization and the gap is narrowing quickly. Now lets further look at the number of vacation periods, F/Os routinely making 200K and you have the Titanic in the making.

An F/O making 200K is ridicuolus and should never happen. If F/O's over there are making this then they are doomed. Heck, that is too much for a 737 Capt let alone an F/O.
 
The problem is not pilot pay, its about the price of fuel. Just a prelude to more cuts from the Airtran side.
 
Alright Mr. economics, what is a sustainable 737 wage?
Mainline's 777 wage should be what you're focusing on not SW. What does that mean you should make in your unsustainable CRJ? You should have probably paid Pinnacle to come to work this month by your logic.
A sustainable wage changes over time. Sorry, but there is no fixed answer to this question. It changes based on the economic conditions (which currently, suck and are not likely to get better for the foreseeable future), oil prices, and what other players (the big boys) are paid in todays market. And unfortunately for you, your labor costs are now far higher than the rest of the competition.

Southwest figured out a long time ago common sense money saving techniques that, even today, delta and other carriers can't match. (Training, aircraft usage, common type, fact they never wait 30 minutes for the ramp to show up) Look how much more Pinnacle is going to spend on training then Southwest. Should you have to pay for that too?
True, SWA nickel/dimes a pilot initially by not paying for the type rating. But even that pathetic, low ball move will not be enough to save them long term with their current labor cost structure.

Pilots over-estimate their value to the airline almost as bad as they over-estimate their cost to the company. Airlines/airplanes are expensive, pilots are cheap (in more ways than one).

It's not what your worth, it's what you negotiate!

Quick fun fact from a family friend. He earned $98,000 dollars in 1978 on the 727. Adjusted for inflation that would be ~$345,000.

Pilots are a hell of a deal.
Sure, I could negotiate $750/hr to fly a 737. But it won't happen once the airline can't pay those kinds of labor costs anymore. Have you listened to Kelly?! EVERY single major (legacy) since deregulation has gone through bankruptcy, and many in the last 10 years alone. The post 9/11 world is drastically different, and your competition is far cheaper than you. Highest costs at any airline are fuel and labor. Now fuel you could hedge, and SWA did well, but that time is coming to an end. Next up, labor costs: the legacies have already gone through a bankruptcy adjustment (concessions and cuts) to reach a new equilibrium. That's the key word here, a labor equilibrium. IF every single legacy 737 pilot was making $200k as Captain, you'd be fair game to keep those kinds of costs around. But the reality is that is not the case anymore. Do you really think your airline can continue operating with $200k+ for Captains for the next 10 years? I'd bet money that in the next couple years, SWA will have a "labor cost adjustment" and you will fall in line with your peers at the legacies. You can say "this RJ pilot is stupid and doesn't know what he's talkin about" or you can just look at what's happened this past decade in the airline industry and learn.

It's people like you that have f*&ked that up.
No, don't blame me. I'm a relatively new entrant in this career. Those who have f*ked up this career were pilots before my time. Those who scoped out RJ flying to protect senior interests, those who were always against one-list, etc.
 
An F/O making 200K is ridicuolus and should never happen. If F/O's over there are making this then they are doomed. Heck, that is too much for a 737 Capt let alone an F/O.

Agreed. Heck, even pre-9/11, a Delta 777 Captain topped out at $320/hr with a 65 hr guarantee, netting $250,000. Those were one of the best times for airline labor for a Captain, one of the highest payrate at the time in the country. So if in our best times, a 777 legacy Captain made that much, there is no way a 200k+ wage is sustainable for 737 pilots in TODAYS environment, with post-bankruptcy lower cost legacies with far lower costs and labor rates.
 
The long held requirement to have a type to be hired at SWA is not based on saving a few bucks. Long ago it was enshrined by Kelleher as a requirement that showed commitment to employment at SWA. The employee has some skin in the game. Same with profit sharing, if the company prospers YOU prosper. Same with upgrade to Captain. Kelleher was quoted as saying he didn't want pilot employees who didn't want to advance in their profession. It's all part of the company's legacy and philosophy which is why they stand apart from so many other carriers.

I personally admire it.
 
The long held requirement to have a type to be hired at SWA is not based on saving a few bucks.
The 737 type goes back to the start of SWA. For a small airline to give type ratings, you need a Fed to come in for the oral, Sim PC, and bounce PC. remember in the 70's we had to do 85% checks in the sim, 15% in the airplane. This is a scheduling nightmare. Feds don't normally work, nights when your airplanes are not making money. By having the type rating, a company PC check airman can do all the of required checks to allow that person to fly as PIC. SWA also could have very easily requested a reduction in training hours due to the fact everyone had a 737 type. If remember right when SWA started they had a pipeline to the USAF Navigator School where they flew the 737.
 
The long held requirement to have a type to be hired at SWA is not based on saving a few bucks. Long ago it was enshrined by Kelleher as a requirement that showed commitment to employment at SWA. The employee has some skin in the game. Same with profit sharing, if the company prospers YOU prosper. Same with upgrade to Captain. Kelleher was quoted as saying he didn't want pilot employees who didn't want to advance in their profession. It's all part of the company's legacy and philosophy which is why they stand apart from so many other carriers.

I personally admire it.
You do know that kellihers no longer there?
 

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