Kelly: SWA costs too high

[SWA Bubba]

Lets be honest, productivity can only do so much. Bottom line is still many SWA Captains make over $200k, and that wage is unsustainable long term, considering it's only a 737 and considering todays airline enviornment. One way or another, you folks will have pay cuts forced down your throats.

Actually, assuming they fly at least the line they've been awarded, ALL SWA Captains make over $200k (I didn't want to talk about money, but you brought it up). And the company pays those wages, and still makes a profit every quarter. Why do you suppose that is? Like LeeRoy mentioned, it's all about productivity, and not just pilots. SWA has something like 56 total employees per airplane. Legacies before BK commonly had over 100 per plane. Now, they have numbers in the 70s and 80s, but still a lot more than us. Even if you assume the same revenue (per ASM), there's a hell of a lot fewer SWA employees to divide up the labor expense. THAT's why they can pay us more and still make money.

Bubba

 

[Taco Rocket]

I love this thread! If an outsider had said this, the cult (I mean employees) would attack the outsider as a "hata." The bottom line is we will all have to drop our shorts on wages (long term) as there is no more productivity left to squeeze out of a pilot group flying 85+ hours/month.

 

[texman]

Actually, assuming they fly at least the line they've been awarded, ALL SWA Captains make over $200k (I didn't want to talk about money, but you brought it up). And the company pays those wages, and still makes a profit every quarter. Why do you suppose that is? Like LeeRoy mentioned, it's all about productivity, and not just pilots. SWA has something like 56 total employees per airplane. Legacies before BK commonly had over 100 per plane. Now, they have numbers in the 70s and 80s, but still a lot more than us. Even if you assume the same revenue (per ASM), there's a hell of a lot fewer SWA employees to divide up the labor expense. THAT's why they can pay us more and still make money.

Bubba

This is true.

 

[Metrojet]

Instead of doing stock buybacks SW could use it's cash to approach the AMR creditors and try to tempt them with a strong offer for a bunch of -800 leases, 737 delivery positions, east coast slots/gates and whatever other parts that they could use. Maybe it's a longshot but SW could help to make AMR less of a competitor by trying to force a partial liquidation/downsizing of AMR by making an offer to the BK court for pieces or possibly even buy the whole operation while it's still in BK and break it up, keep what they want and liquidate/reject/reorganize/spin-off the rest. The creditors just want their money and AMR is going to try to give them as little of it as possible. AMR can offer equity to secured creditors but SW can offer cash, cash is better. This is ATA only bigger, SW should introduce a competing plan to the creditors in court and throw a wrench into this thing. Back AMR management into a corner to prevent them from getting too good a deal and becoming a thorn in the side of SW.

If SW is worried about a rejuvinated AMR with lower costs why not try to prevent if from happening in the first place? SW should be on Boeing's case as well (and enlist their help) as it appears they are ready, willing and able to come to the aid of AMR at the expense of SW. SW should twist Boeing's arm as hard as they can to get some sway with them and make them less generous to AMR, AMR's 737's and delivery slots could solve a big fleet rejuvination issue for SW.

There's a potential "grand bargain" here to be made and if SW doesn't jump in as a spoiler it's probably going to be between AMR and LCC which will give SW another huge competitor with low costs. SW may be able to force a breakup of AMR and get some valuable parts instead of letting LCC get it all. If nothing else they can try to jack up the price that LCC will have to pay.

You can either complain about the competition or you can do something about it. SW has the cash to do something about it. SW should never have allowed LCC to survive when they were down, let's see what they do with AMR. SW has the chance to jump in the ring and greatly complicate the situation at AMR's expense, that's what competitors are supposed to do; create chaos for the competition. This is a dirty industry, you have to get down in the dirt and fight dirty to win.

I don't have any ill-will towards American employees but in this industry it's kill or be killed, there is no middle ground. It's like the TWA situation except this time AMR is TWA.

You should be a campaign manager for one of our presidential candidates - excellent tactics and well laid out strategic plan with an end goal to take down a competitor - and really no hard feelings - it is just politics!

Metrojet

 

[General Lee]

How about charging for bag fees like everyone else?

M

"Southwest would NEVER do that......"---Fat, bald SWA Captain in those

stooooopid "People's Court" SWA TV Commercials.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

This is true.

You and I HOPE it's true, but your company is saying otherwise. Prepare for a contract assault when your next one comes around, next August? Good luck, we are all counting on you.....


Southwest CEO: High costs are a danger to airline
Orlando Business Journal by Lance Murray

Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2011, 12:03pm EST
Southwest Airlines Co. CEO Gary Kelly is warning his employees high costs are a danger to the carrier, just as they were to the larger carriers that have filed for bankruptcy is warning his employees high costs are a danger to the carrier, just as they were to the larger carriers that have filed for bankruptcy protection.


In a letter to employees of Dallas-based Southwest (NYSE: LUV), Kelly said the company must rein in costs if it is to prosper in the future.






Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[Flyer1015]

You just don't get it.

Due to our productivity, SWA pilots fly what 1.2-2 pilots fly at other airlines. If SWA took the AA pilot contract we would have to hire 1000 more pilots. (at least) SWA are paid a lot because we keep the headcount down. Quite a bit. In doing so we are paid more per pilot.

Something that you haters seem to ignore.

You're limited the same way I am: 100 hrs month, 1000 per year. Pretty much limited on productivity, and your group isn't getting any younger. As your group ages, everyone goes towards that highest 12th year payscale (like how American has been, except the flowthroughs from Eagle). In todays enviornment, with oil being over 100/barrel, 737 Captains making over $200k is unsustainable. Short term you are (and have been) doing okay, but long term, it's unsustainable. Take a long around you. The rest of the industry, through bankruptcy, has realigned their pay much lower than yours. You make more than 777 or 747 Captains at mainline, and those kinds of cost structures won't last. Something has to cave in, and this time, productivity won't be enough. Productivity can only be pushed so much when you are limited to work on duty hours (daily, monthly, yearly).

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

You're limited the same way I am: 100 hrs month, 1000 per year. Pretty much limited on productivity, and your group isn't getting any younger. As your group ages, everyone goes towards that highest 12th year payscale (like how American has been, except the flowthroughs from Eagle). In todays enviornment, with oil being over 100/barrel, 737 Captains making over $200k is unsustainable. Short term you are (and have been) doing okay, but long term, it's unsustainable. Take a long around you. The rest of the industry, through bankruptcy, has realigned their pay much lower than yours. You make more than 777 or 747 Captains at mainline, and those kinds of cost structures won't last. Something has to cave in, and this time, productivity won't be enough. Productivity can only be pushed so much when you are limited to work on duty hours (daily, monthly, yearly).

You still don't get it.

 

[slaquer5]

You're limited the same way I am: 100 hrs month, 1000 per year. Pretty much limited on productivity, and your group isn't getting any younger. As your group ages, everyone goes towards that highest 12th year payscale (like how American has been, except the flowthroughs from Eagle). In todays enviornment, with oil being over 100/barrel, 737 Captains making over $200k is unsustainable. Short term you are (and have been) doing okay, but long term, it's unsustainable. Take a long around you. The rest of the industry, through bankruptcy, has realigned their pay much lower than yours. You make more than 777 or 747 Captains at mainline, and those kinds of cost structures won't last. Something has to cave in, and this time, productivity won't be enough. Productivity can only be pushed so much when you are limited to work on duty hours (daily, monthly, yearly).

So Mr. RJ.


You don't think the other airlines can get there pay up or take back the flying that your doing.


Now I see why some call you a scab.

 

[Skybus]

Actually he does get it and he is right. We have grown big, fat and lazy. Throw in the "manipulation" of the "system" and the horrendous sick leave utilization and the gap is narrowing quickly. Now lets further look at the number of vacation periods, F/Os routinely making 200K and you have the Titanic in the making.