jetblue EMB-190 pay??!!!

[ATA73Pilot]

-- risked my life for a weed inhaling, lying sex feind of a democrat, was that worth it?

Gosh...I don't know....maybe risking your career for an alcoholic, coke snorting, rich kid deserter is a better bet this time around!

 

[whyohwhy]

heywood,


My sentiments exactly!!

I fear that this is the first real blunder by David and Dave.

I don't want a union as much as the next guy (yes, I'm a furloughee who's been there done that), but when you compare an in-house union like SWPA to what we've got, kind of makes you wonder??

Still trying to be optimistic...

 

[blahshmah]

Whatever happened to keeping our pay just behind SWA? I still remember those speeches.

Ah, like others at JB my former employer was unionized because they needed to be unionized. I had hoped that we wouldn't see a union at JB. This recent action doesn't help this cause. I hope David and Dave can fix this but I'm embarrassed to say that I think there will be no open dialogue about this.

 

[thruthemurk]

There are many JB pilots who will not have the option of making 320 Captain pay their first year (or even two) of employment who are VERY unhappy with these payscales. Everyone understands that this is a low cost carrier and we are too small to pay top rates, but these are pitiful.

Worse is the justification based on a pure seat ratio - only pilots who question nothing are fooled by that "fuzzy math". A 100 seat jet that goes 400 knots could pay 40$ more for the cockpit ($25/$15 or whatever) for and additional .1cent per seat mile.

murk

 

[Heywood Jiblome]

I just hope the rumor is true that some senior guys here at JB read this board. Dean. Al. Dave. David. Are you listening?! You have some...no a LOT of pretty disappointed and pissed off employees.........

 

[lowecur]

Jetblue folks

Most of you people still can't see the forest through the trees. Independence Air just stepped into the LCC business from the regional side. Are they a threat to the pay scale?..........no. What is a threat are Mesa, Skywest, and Republic. Republic already has the option to order 190's in lieu of the 170's. I believe Skywest can operate up to 99 seats with their current contract, and well you all know about Jon Ornstein. It is my belief that all three of these regionals will step into the LCC business in the near future. You think the two Dave's aren't keenly aware of this? It's called foresite. Stop complaining and be thankful you work for a company that will keep you ahead of the curve.

Also, I sure don't hear people complaining about Spirit. Check out the payscale that they have, and believe me they will be a force in the years to come.

 

[jetblue320]

Problem with this statement is we don't have any say in the matter. We, as a pilot group don't have a say as to whether we "accept" the pay or not. The only way we don't accept the pay is if we quit. Mgmt tells us what we're going to be paid, they don't negotiate.

Well, you are about half right. You may not have a say so about the rates but if you don't agree with the "agreement", don't sign it. The word "contract" keeps getting thrown in there. It's a unilateral agreement, not a bilateral contract. Am I thrilled about the EMB190 rates? Of course not. Do I think these are preliminary numbers? Absolutely. The past 5 years have taught me to trust. And to answer Colorado's question, no, I have not got my pink slip yet.

C yaaaa

 

[Heywood Jiblome]

320,

You're right I don't have to sign it, but then where does that leave me? Without a contract. I understand what you are saying, but the bottom line, and I think you agree, is that these numbers are unacceptable. You and I may never have to fly the -190, but it will be difficult to look my jetblue brother in the eye who will!! Preliminary or not, these numbers should not have come out this low. Why do it? So that in a year they can give a raise and look like heros?! Do the right thing the first time!!!

 

[sleepy]

Maybe it's time for you guys to make that call to ALPA? It is only a matter of time before you will need a union.

 

[AAflyer]

Lowecur,


Many of us get it, do you? Spirit has poor wages and have ordered some airbusses, I don;t see them becoming a force to be challenged in years (sorry spirit guys). They have niche and nice product, but this country can not sustain thousands of jets on SWA,JB,AirTran, Spirit. I am not saying they will not grow, just not to the size of JB or SWA, or even AirTran for that matter.Thats is my take.

JetBlue is the darling of wallstreet, they are compared to SWA everyehere. They have orders and options for hundreds of jets. Spirit is no where near the momentum that JB has built.

If they are going to be better than SWA, fly to everywhere SWA is going to, and be as large as SWA, then how about pay like SWA.

I relaize they are new, but no that new anymore. They are making money, and ordering aircraft, and growing, it would have a huge token to their pilots to have raised the amount even $10 to start. Dave is not giving the JB experience. The FAs,the agents, the pilots, the ground workers, they are what make JB sucessful, it would have been nice to be rewarded even just a little.

AA

But then again what do I know, it seems according to you, there will be no more legacy carriers and all others will rule the globe.

 

[SpeedBird]

The following information comes from the latest BLS (Bureau of Labor Statistics) average hourly wages report (June 2003):


1. Accountant: $23/hr (38 hours/week)

2. Aircraft Mechanic: $25/hr (40 hours/week)

3. Dentist: $36/hr (30 hours/week)

4. Mechanical Engineer: $30/hr (40 hours/week)

5. Fire Fighter: $18/hr (44 hours/week)

6. Lawyer: $44/hr (40 hours/week)

7. Pilot (Airplane): $104/hr (21 hours/week)

8. Physician: $45/hr (40 hours/week)

9. Senior Executive: $45/hr (42 hours/week)

10. Truck Driver: $14/hr (40 hours/week)


I post this information for purposes of comparison with other white & blue collar professions in the US. One can challenge the veracity of the numbers but the point I want to underscore here is the relationship our profession has with other disparate working groups in terms of average hourly pay and work hours. Despite how bad things may seem today you have to wonder how others outside our industry may view our plight.

Just another perspective to consider....

 

[Vegas Flyer]

I got paid 70 grand with 11 years in the air force-- risked my life for a weed inhaling, lying sex feind of a democrat,

So ya got out before the coke snorting, lying messiah complex of a republican?

 

[AAflyer]

Those numbers are BS. So how do you actually compare?

Just from looking it appears they averaged the low end of many sectors and averaged the high end of a couple of airlines.

If you took the average including regional,commuter, flight intructor, charter, 135 and added that in the mix in ratio to number of pilots flying you wouldn't come clost to 104K.

I love what they quote about senior executive pay.

According to Business Week April 21st issue 2003
Average upper level CEO pay averaged 3.7 million dollars a year.

According to Govexec.com in a 99 article
Average executive pay in the private sector for someonline chief of personnel earns $315k. Infact a similar job in the givernment of senior executive earns from 120k-169k.

These numbers alone make me wonder what the true numbers of the other positions are.

AA

 

[jetblue320]

320,

You're right I don't have to sign it, but then where does that leave me? Without a contract. I understand what you are saying, but the bottom line, and I think you agree, is that these numbers are unacceptable. You and I may never have to fly the -190, but it will be difficult to look my jetblue brother in the eye who will!! Preliminary or not, these numbers should not have come out this low. Why do it? So that in a year they can give a raise and look like heros?! Do the right thing the first time!!!

10-4 on that. It does have the potential to create a lot of animosity amonst the group. On that same note, it is the same deal when a guy with options @ $45 a share finds out that mine were $1 (now .37 cents). Time will tell in regards to the EMB190 rates.

C yaaa

 

[Mooseflyer]

6. Lawyer: $44/hr (40 hours/week)

7. Pilot (Airplane): $104/hr (21 hours/week)

8. Physician: $45/hr (40 hours/week)

So a pilot makes more than twice as much $$$ as a lawyer or doctor, and all for half as much work.......hhhhmmmmm