JetBlue class dates

[SBD]

Very balanced? Yet you're applying elsewhere? You said this was a great place to work? Why apply elsewhere?

You know it's only a placeholder job locale and your failed management team agrees. You leave and they replace you with Jared Yates types for a couple of dollars. You play right into their hands. Good work.

Here's a thought, join your JAOC and make a difference.

What's the JAOC? I'm one of the clueless newbies you talk about. Some of your posts do make sense, but some things I have no idea what you are talking about. Really trying to learn all the aspects.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

The thing is if you really care about getting a CBA this is not the way to approach this particular pilot group.

The union supporters need to stay away from bashing the company(even if deserved). There is a large group that will immediately be turned away when that conversation is started. The supporters must stay company positive while pushing the benefits of a CBA(real scope and M&A language as examples for me). You must be pro company and pro union or the drive will fail again. There must be that very vivid explanation that the Union does not want an Us against Them relationship.

Sounding bitter, pissed off, and condescending will push some fence voters into the no category very quickly.

 

[Flyby1206]

What's the JAOC? I'm one of the clueless newbies you talk about. Some of your posts do make sense, but some things I have no idea what you are talking about. Really trying to learn all the aspects.

Jetblue ALPA Organizing Committee

The thing is if you really care about getting a CBA this is not the way to approach this particular pilot group.

The union supporters need to stay away from bashing the company(even if deserved). There is a large group that will immediately be turned away when that conversation is started. The supporters must stay company positive while pushing the benefits of a CBA(real scope and M&A language as examples for me). You must be pro company and pro union or the drive will fail again. There must be that very vivid explanation that the Union does not want an Us against Them relationship.

Sounding bitter, pissed off, and condescending will push some fence voters into the no category very quickly.

100% agreed. The emotions need to stay on the sidelines, and stick to the message of collaborative progress for our futures.

 

[Lake Alice]

Truth be told we have tried your approach twice. In both union drives we posted facts and only facts. We discussed the retirement shortfalls, the pay shortfalls, the lack of merger and integration protection. We gathered and provided this information to the pilot group in the form of emails, mailings and informational meetings.

Jetblue did the opposites. It lied about awards from the TWA lawsuit. It told you the protections in the 5 documents were as good as it gets only to retract that statement a few months later after it was discovered most of the language was written incorrectly. As it stands today, PVC lawyer paid for by Jetblue, Kevin Fitzpatrick stated Section 15 does not protect the pilot group as Jetblue states. I can go on an on.

While many bash Jetblue or point out facts they aren't lying. Everything being posted from merger protections to alter-egos to pay and benefits is positively true and verifiable. What is shocking is pilots not willing to listen.

And for the record allow me to point out this very...real...fact. Those of us posting on this board are mostly senior pilots at Jetblue. We don't have to care about junior guys or gals like you(not sure your gender) but we do. In fact we're senior enough that the company essentially has to shut down before we lose our jobs. Maybe we go about it in different methods but we want people to be crystal clear about the airline they are either working for or applying to.

At Jetblue you are underpaid and unprotected. These are irrefutable facts. 1193 of you chose to let a failed process continue and for a junior pilot that means a guaranteed staple as per Section 15 you voted in favor off. The old adage of "you can only lead a horse to water" applies here in a way I have never seen before.

Keep in mind a few facts:
TWA received a 52% staple from AA while in bankruptcy. PEA section 15 provides for a 50% staple under non-bankruptcy merger/aquisition.
20% higher insurance premiums with a 33% increase year over year.
8-20% short fall in retirement. Interim CFO stated no changes to pilot pay/benefits.
Unlimited alter-ego flying.
Unlimited regional airline flying. 10% applies to year one and not reviewed year over year.
I can go on.

I am quoted as stating Jetblue is not a bad place to work and I still say that but Jetblue is not a "destination carrier." We are not a career carrier. We are simply a comfortable stepping stone.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

I dont really see anything wrong with your post or how you approached it. I was referring to fifty30. He is not helping the cause.

Im saying I have flown with enough guys already in my short time here who describe the supporters as bitter and pissed off. It was enough for them to vote no.

The colgan guys voted ALPA down and a little over a year later voted them in with a solid majority. I think the same will happen here.

 

[Otto77]

Truth be told we have tried your approach twice. In both union drives we posted facts and only facts. We discussed the retirement shortfalls, the pay shortfalls, the lack of merger and integration protection. We gathered and provided this information to the pilot group in the form of emails, mailings and informational meetings.

Jetblue did the opposites. It lied about awards from the TWA lawsuit. It told you the protections in the 5 documents were as good as it gets only to retract that statement a few months later after it was discovered most of the language was written incorrectly. As it stands today, PVC lawyer paid for by Jetblue, Kevin Fitzpatrick stated Section 15 does not protect the pilot group as Jetblue states. I can go on an on.

While many bash Jetblue or point out facts they aren't lying. Everything being posted from merger protections to alter-egos to pay and benefits is positively true and verifiable. What is shocking is pilots not willing to listen.

And for the record allow me to point out this very...real...fact. Those of us posting on this board are mostly senior pilots at Jetblue. We don't have to care about junior guys or gals like you(not sure your gender) but we do. In fact we're senior enough that the company essentially has to shut down before we lose our jobs. Maybe we go about it in different methods but we want people to be crystal clear about the airline they are either working for or applying to.

At Jetblue you are underpaid and unprotected. These are irrefutable facts. 1193 of you chose to let a failed process continue and for a junior pilot that means a guaranteed staple as per Section 15 you voted in favor off. The old adage of "you can only lead a horse to water" applies here in a way I have never seen before.

Keep in mind a few facts:
TWA received a 52% staple from AA while in bankruptcy. PEA section 15 provides for a 50% staple under non-bankruptcy merger/aquisition.
20% higher insurance premiums with a 33% increase year over year.
8-20% short fall in retirement. Interim CFO stated no changes to pilot pay/benefits.
Unlimited alter-ego flying.
Unlimited regional airline flying. 10% applies to year one and not reviewed year over year.
I can go on.

I am quoted as stating Jetblue is not a bad place to work and I still say that but Jetblue is not a "destination carrier." We are not a career carrier. We are simply a comfortable stepping stone.

Well said. As a newbie on property, I just don't understand why most folks turn the blind eye to all the stuff laid out above? What is the major argument for folks that continue to vote no?

 

[Lake Alice]

You can pigeon hole every pilot demographic but in the same breath you can't. The one thing you can say is our pilots failed to look at facts and acted solely on emotion. It appears to me our pilots just want to believe in Jetblue no matter what. My loyalty is flexible. You take care of me I return the favor. Many pilots feel since they weren't furloughed in 2007 Jetblue was "doing the right thing". Factually speaking how could Jetblue furlough when they needed a 300 million infusion from LH. There are so many reason its truly hard to say. If you happen to figure it out feel free to share.

I will say this and though I know it to be true it's very hard to prove. From the top down there is an underground network at Jetblue. DB, SS and CSandman were in constant contact with the PVC co-chairs who were in constant contact with Craine and others who were given "permission" to use the Jetblue server. Though complaints were filed IT tickets never were. The email chain they created was substantially larger than the ever expected which allowed them to reach a huge audience.
Lastly I will add I am not an ALPA apologist. I am neither pro or anti ALPA. I do, however, see the distinct need for a CBA and given ALPA's substantial financial backing they are our best vehicle going forward.

 

[fifty30retard]

The thing is if you really care about getting a CBA this is not the way to approach this particular pilot group.

The union supporters need to stay away from bashing the company(even if deserved). There is a large group that will immediately be turned away when that conversation is started. The supporters must stay company positive while pushing the benefits of a CBA(real scope and M&A language as examples for me). You must be pro company and pro union or the drive will fail again. There must be that very vivid explanation that the Union does not want an Us against Them relationship.

Sounding bitter, pissed off, and condescending will push some fence voters into the no category very quickly.

I'm not pissed off, I'm pointing out your failed management team's failures, the ones proud prideful people might slip under a rug. Time passes by and so does a properly funded retirement and benefits. Allowing it to happen to appease a manager is timidity and fear personified. Not my issue.

 

[fifty30retard]

What's the JAOC? I'm one of the clueless newbies you talk about. Some of your posts do make sense, but some things I have no idea what you are talking about. Really trying to learn all the aspects.

The JAOC is a group of jetBlue pilots who are working for jetBlue pilots, plain and simple. It is an independent association (JBPA) using ALPA as a resource and an asset, much like B6 should be using ALPA as.

Access to ALPA Safety, Engineering, Security, Legal, Financial Analysis, Retirement & Insurance, and Aeromedical, would make B6 operationally stronger and allow 600 managers to seek employment elsewhere at huge savings to the company in both money and stock grants.

 

[Lake Alice]

The JAOC is a group of jetBlue pilots who are working for jetBlue pilots, plain and simple. It is an independent association (JBPA) using ALPA as a resource and an asset, much like B6 should be using ALPA as.

Access to ALPA Safety, Engineering, Security, Legal, Financial Analysis, Retirement & Insurance, and Aeromedical, would make B6 operationally stronger and allow 600 managers to seek employment elsewhere at huge savings to the company in both money and stock grants.

This point cannot be emphasized enough. ALPA of old had a mentality of what is good for one carrier must be good for all. The new ALPA, under completely new leadership, learned this mantra was a mistake. What the new ALPA leadership is trying to do is support each individual airline in negotiating a contract that is beneficial to that airline.

The JAOC is the extension of that. As Tard mentioned we operate under the supported umbrella of ALPA but with our own leadership and our own ideas. This idea was lost on our pilot group due to the perceptions of past ALPA leadership.

 

[Vingus]

Tiered were questions in there? Your posts are like s screaming two year old in the grocery store. Nobody's interested in why he's screaming, they just want him to settle down.

If it clears things up any:
I'd like a bigger piece of the pie.
We need a union.
I don't get to vote in this election (my silo is already filled.

The most embarrassing thing here mac is that you're one of us.

I agree with Fins Up. I am a JB pilot. Have been for almost seven years. I voted yes twice so don't call me a juicer. I know exactly where we stand vs our peers.

Mr Retard, you act appropriate to your call sign. Calm down because you are embarrassing the pilot group (more than we have done to ourselves).

Seriously.

I am considering filtering you because you bring nothing but the same crap to this board with no mature discussion. You sound like a big baby. I don't disagree with your message but you are turning people off with your delivery. And those who are turned off by hateful rhetoric may be voting with emotion and not logic but we need those votes at the end of the day.

 

[fifty30retard]

I agree with Fins Up. I am a JB pilot. Have been for almost seven years. I voted yes twice so don't call me a juicer. I know exactly where we stand vs our peers.

Mr Retard, you act appropriate to your call sign. Calm down because you are embarrassing the pilot group (more than we have done to ourselves).

Seriously.

I am considering filtering you because you bring nothing but the same crap to this board with no mature discussion. You sound like a big baby. I don't disagree with your message but you are turning people off with your delivery. And those who are turned off by hateful rhetoric may be voting with emotion and not logic but we need those votes at the end of the day.

Hateful? No, direct yes. I have 1100 pilots directly effecting my family's future and I won't give them a pass. As long as the shortchanging continues, this is not a good place to work. My family needs no niceness, it needs funds to wipe my a$$ in my old age. Take niceness and file it in the circular.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Hateful? No, direct yes. I have 1100 pilots directly effecting my family's future and I won't give them a pass. As long as the shortchanging continues, this is not a good place to work. My family needs no niceness, it needs funds to wipe my a$$ in my old age. Take niceness and file it in the circular.

If I get a job there, I'm voting no too primarily due to your attitude and ignorance. You're doing yourself harm.

 

[mejorgy]

ASA....If you are in the interview or phase II stage of your application with JB, I wish you (as well as all qualified canditates) the best of LUCK on becoming a Jet Blue Pilot.

A JET BLUE PILOT: Not a ramper, flight attendent or gate agent etc etc!!!!! A Jet Blue Pilot! Someone who has taken years of education and dedication to acheive a goal worthy of above standard compensation and benefits. Not to become a cost tool in the eyes of our Executive Leadership which will extract every last bit of goodwill and patience from their specialized working group. (aka Flight Ops)

Fifty-thirty although CRASS and very direct in his opinions may offend most, he is actually quite accurate with his assesment of the gross short falls concerning our total health, welfare and compensation. All the while being extremely frustrated at the lack of our companies Executive Leadership integrity and fortitude!

Please do not make a blanket statement that you will vote NO to a union or other vechicles that work in favor of enhancing us personally and professionally.

Good Luck and see you on the line!

 

[Otto77]

If I get a job there, I'm voting no too primarily due to your attitude and ignorance. You're doing yourself harm.

How is he ignorant? This is coming from someone who doesn't even work here. You may want to do a little research on the topic if you are looking at working here. I enjoy it, but there are some shortfalls that need to be overcome.