Jet Blue firing???

[Capn Mike]

$350,000 to hire and train one pilot? I thought you guys are efficient....better get that cost down!

But Airbus is picking up the tab along with the airplanes, fuel and gate expenses.

I could use a new rollaboard. Does anyone know if Airbus has an account set up with Travelpro???

 

[B-atch]

"I told you so" (to be placed in a time capsule for future refference)

 

[8vATE]

Hmmmm....


Unions are a "safety net" according to B-Atch....???



I was an ALPA member for 14 years with three different companies...
There were some advantages/benefits and costs/disadvantages in my opinion during my membership...

A LOT depended on your local leadership..... the pilot group's relationship with management and the type of carrier you worked for ... (regional, major or freight... I did all of them...)

As far as unions being a "career" safety net...

Ask the EAL, PAA and AAA pilots how they feel.....
gone, gone, and almost gone (retirement definitely gone)....

At my present employer which is non-union.... some of the biggest voices FOR ALPA are some characters with poor attitudes and even worse piloting skills...... I believe they just want a union to protect them from getting
rightfully disciplined or terminated....

 

[B-atch]

Imagine what would HAVE happened if A union were not present at these carriers...You are right, a union is as good as it's members and it's elected officials. As far as protecting a few bad apples goes, yes occationally it does occur. But wait untill you are charged with a questionable infraction by the FEDS, who is going to defend you then. JB mngt. I DON'T THINK SOOOO! You are on you'r own....Loss of license insurance?

 

[B-atch]

OH, I forgot....Merger and aquisitions..Ask the non-union carrier folks (that are still employed) what seniority they now hold at their new carrier(ex. Challenge Air Cargo, among others) What does JB SCOPE clause say pertaining to this LITTLE subject...Perhaps IGNORANCE is one of the sought after qualities that the JB HR people seek..

 

[Capn Mike]

OH, I forgot....Merger and aquisitions..Ask the non-union carrier folks (that are still employed) what seniority they now hold at their new carrier(ex. Challenge Air Cargo, among others) What does JB SCOPE clause say pertaining to this LITTLE subject...Perhaps IGNORANCE is one of the sought after qualities that the JB HR people seek..

So should you also ask the TWA pilots their view of how they faired on the merger/aquisition???

 

[sleeve]

all I can say is I'll take any airline where the CEO and founder of an airline has it in him to ask how a gate agents mom is feeling because he knows she's been feeling ill..How many CEO's at other airlines know gate agents by first name....even at my lolely regional the management is to important to carry on a normal conversation with the little people...

its not the money or future predictions...i want to be treated good now...

its amazing how every pilot becomes and instant financial advisor or career advisor whenever they want to....I might as well go to Wall Street now so i can make some real money....

 

[FDJ2]

If for some reason the management/labor formula ever breaks..all bets are off!

By then it's too late, with no contract management could change pay, benefits, work rules, etc. at will. By the time you got a union certified, the damage has already been done. Until your hastily put together union files a section six letter, management can proceed at will permantly changing all of the above until you manage to get your first PWA several years later. Good luck if that ever happens.

 

[FDJ2]

So should you also ask the TWA pilots their view of how they faired on the merger/aquisition???

The TWA pilots voted away their own PWA protections on the promise that the APA would be fair. This was done in order to fascilitate their acquisition by AA. With no contract language protecting their rights the TWA pilots had to rely on the generousity of the APA, much like any other pilot group that has no successorship/change of control language in their PWA. Your example only reenforces the need for strong contract language protecting your rights.

 

[thav8r]

Thats true about scope...

BUT there is a major poison pill provision with our contracts that would make a merger beyond expensive. If that happens, Im fine with that and if someone wants to activate the poison pill of oru scope provision so be it.

As a former merged ALPA member (various times now) there werent too many things I would want to take advantage of ever again with that provision.

Im not ignorant, nor am I unfamililar with the law. I have lived mergers, been through court (and arbitrators) agreements. Besides...didnt do much good for the TWA American folks. Not much love there and no one would say they were ignorant.

 

[FDJ2]

The folks I work for have never given me any reason to think that the QOL and benefits I have now will go away. Not in my lifetime anyway.
C yaa

Good luck.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Hey, I was making a joke. And truth be known, I'll never be off the kool-aid. I do not care where unions were created. I have belonged to them before and that is why I do not belong to them now. That is good for me and that is all that counts. Now before you go off calling me selfish and tell me how my company is going to screw me someday, why do you care if JB has a union anyway? The folks I work for have never given me any reason to think that the QOL and benefits I have now will go away. Not in my lifetime anyway. So please save your salespitch for someone who is buying, I'm not.

C yaa

Every company has a life cycle like a human. Birth through death.

When the strain of daily ops persuades management to take advantage of employees they push back and Unionize.

It will happen someday even at JetBlue Airways. Maybe not soon but when the competition figures out how to really give you all a run for your money... and they will... someone will.

It takes a while to play out... but it happens time and time again.

Print this message and mark my words.

 

[jetblue320]

OH, I forgot....Merger and aquisitions..Ask the non-union carrier folks (that are still employed) what seniority they now hold at their new carrier(ex. Challenge Air Cargo, among others) What does JB SCOPE clause say pertaining to this LITTLE subject...Perhaps IGNORANCE is one of the sought after qualities that the JB HR people seek..

I don't have to ask the Challenge folks Pal, I was one for 12 years. And FYI, CAC was a CBA holding Teamster outfit without one little detail....SCOPE......but the end result was the same.....UPS in, CAC out. Oh, did I mention that the majority of UPS were Teamsters "Brothers". Put that in your union pipe and smoke it.

 

[jetblue320]

Good luck.

If I really thought you meant that I would say thanks. But obviously JB has soured you for some reason so we'll just leave it at that. The way I figure it not everything in life has to depend on luck.

C yaa

 

[JethroF15]

FedEx History... time will tell

Every company has a life cycle like a human. Birth through death.

When the strain of daily ops persuades management to take advantage of employees they push back and Unionize.

It will happen someday even at JetBlue Airways. Maybe not soon but when the competition figures out how to really give you all a run for your money... and they will... someone will.

It takes a while to play out... but it happens time and time again.

Print this message and mark my words.

Right on the money! Anyone who knows the history at FedEx can relate to this. Ask any of the boys how things were in the early years of the company when Freddy Smith would show up in the crew room glad handling and slappin' his boys on the back. I'm sure he asked about sick relatives also. It was all about the PSP thing he preached... "People, Service, Profit". Take care of your people first then the other two will fall in line naturally. Funny thing happened as FedEx grew, PSP changed to PSP! Only now it's Profit, Service, People. Only I think there have been some other steps added between the Service part and the People part but I can't figure out what they are. Bottom line... I've been on the property 5 years now and I have yet to see Freddy in the crew room and he has never asked about any of my sick relatives. I bet a lot of the guys who were around in the early years were thinking everything was rosy and Fred was the greatest CEO of all time and would never put anything above his people, at least it sure seemed that way. As the company grew things changed a lot. As JB grows things will change. It will be interesting to see things in 5 or 6 years. Oh, by the way, I think Freddy was just voted CEO of the century or something like that.

 

[Dizel8]

Companies that deserve unions, get unions.

As many have said, things at jetblue are rosy now, they have been for close to 5 years. Will that change, well if history is a guide yes, but we all hope we can be, well, a bit different. We hope, that we can continue to have a great relationship with management. As of right now, we do. That can change, of course, but why not see where it goes, before jumping to conclusions.

Now, being all sensitive and such, it must be asked, why all you pessimist seem to be sadddened by the current state of affairs at jetblue. It if was because you were all looking out for us, that would be commendable, but it strikes me more as "misery loves company". That some of you are wishing for relations to sour, bad things to happen and for the life of me, I cannot figure out why?

I am a realist, I have been around, as has most people at jetblue. If things change, we would have to evaluate our options, but until then, I will continue to be happy, working for a company that values its employees.

 

[JethroF15]

Now, being all sensitive and such, it must be asked, why all you pessimist seem to be sadddened by the current state of affairs at jetblue. It if was because you were all looking out for us, that would be commendable, but it strikes me more as "misery loves company". That some of you are wishing for relations to sour, bad things to happen and for the life of me, I cannot figure out why?

I am a realist, I have been around, as has most people at jetblue. If things change, we would have to evaluate our options, but until then, I will continue to be happy, working for a company that values its employees.

Dizel... please don't group me with the ones you say are wishing for relations to sour, etc. I sincerely hope that JB keeps doing the right things and continues to be a great place to work. I have some good friends at JB and they love it there and I love it for them. I only bring up the FedEx thing as one example that historically things do change as companies grow.

I hope that JB grows and everyone continues to love working there. And when Fred Smith finally gets the bugs worked out of that "package teleporter" (i.e. beam me up Scottie) gizmo he has been working on and gets rid of all the airplanes I hope I can put in an app with JB!

 

[sandman2122]

Right On Jethro!

Jethro's post about the "culture" at FedEx is Right On! The Jetblue boys/girls should learn from our history. I surely hope JB can maintain a healthy realationship with it's employees but you're still considered to some to be finishing up your "honeymoon stage" in a new company's lifecycle.

When you start adding a real significant number of employees your problems/costs increase then the real fun begins!

BYT, a good friend of mine who's a JB captain told me "we have some guys working with management trying to hammer out pay rates and details associated with the future hiring /flying of the new RJ's". sounded like representation at it's worst to me......good luck.

 

[TWA Dude]

The TWA pilots voted away their own PWA protections on the promise that the APA would be fair. This was done in order to facilitate their acquisition by AA.

Almost, but you missed a little. It was effectively a gun held to our heads by AA. We were told to give up successorship rights or they'll have the judge abrogate our whole contract, promises of fairness notwithstanding. (A bankrupcty judge couldn't care less about the integration.) It was bully tactics and ALPA National "advised" us to go along with it. Methinks it would've been very interesting if our MEC hadn't followed National's "advice".

Bottom line, mergers $uck for pretty much everyone.

Dude

 

[Dizel8]

BYT, a good friend of mine who's a JB captain told me "we have some guys working with management trying to hammer out pay rates and details associated with the future hiring /flying of the new RJ's". sounded like representation at it's worst to me......good luck.

Huh? I must be missing something here. Is the fact, that we have jetblue pilots working with management a bad thing? Or is it that it looks like representation, which is a bad thing? I am confused!