It's Official: USAirways Wants American

[sean67]

The 9th ruled on ripeness only, not merits or anything else USAPA preaches. Dream all you want, but the NIC is the list for AWA/AAA going forward and AA will put the joint contract in play that will activate it to combine with AA. There are no second bites of the apple for East Pilots...

Keep deaming...it'll be a do over( if we do merge).

 

[sean67]

....sorry dreaming

 

[waveflyer]

Keep deaming...it'll be a do over( if we do merge).

Time will tell, but I doubt it- Nic will be merged into AA, favoring APA-
The Nic is your list regardless of how the east feels about it

 

[Captzaahlie]

............

 

[Turtle21]

Time will tell, but I doubt it- Nic will be merged into AA, favoring APA-
The Nic is your list regardless of how the east feels about it

The Nic list (ALPA) and DOH with C&R list (USAPA) are both proposals that won't fly if USAir wants to get past the seniority dispute.

 

[Turtle21]

The 9th ruled on ripeness only, not merits or anything else USAPA preaches. Dream all you want, but the NIC is the list for AWA/AAA going forward and AA will put the joint contract in play that will activate it to combine with AA. There are no second bites of the apple for East Pilots...

The 9th said "seniority dispute", and the more you post the more you prove they said a lot more than "not ripe".

 

[waveflyer]

The Nic list (ALPA) and DOH with C&R list (USAPA) are both proposals that won't fly if USAir wants to get past the seniority dispute.

And you would stop the APA's will how?
This will go to arbitration, and the arbitrator will use NIC as the baseline of integrating TWO airlines- (an arbitrator will not toss aside a final and binding award issued by another arbitrator), then, if satisfactory to APA- they will pass it and don't need the east to sign off on anything-
The only way you can hold on to your beloved LOA 93 with its industry trailing, well sub-VA startup rates, is if the binding award displeases the APA and they pull a USAPA-

Either way, it'll be good to see the east holding a minority position in a seniority dispute

 

[Turtle21]

And you would stop the APA's will how?
This will go to arbitration, and the arbitrator will use NIC as the baseline of integrating TWO airlines- (an arbitrator will not toss aside a final and binding award issued by another arbitrator), then, if satisfactory to APA- they will pass it and don't need the east to sign off on anything-
The only way you can hold on to your beloved LOA 93 with its industry trailing, well sub-VA startup rates, is if the binding award displeases the APA and they pull a USAPA-

Either way, it'll be good to see the east holding a minority position in a seniority dispute

Judge Wake thought he could force the Nic but the 9th and the SCOTUS removed that restriction. If an arbitrator thinks he will reinstate it now he has more rocks in his head than Wake.

An arbitrator will use the lists the lawful representatives (APA and USAPA) provides him. If anyone (including USAPA) expects to give an arbitrator a list that has never been ratified, much less implimented (Nic or DOH, both of which are wholly foreign to the present employment circumstances of the two pilot groups) they are fools. Not that the profession lacks its share of such.

 

[reepicheep]

My guess is Parker won't wait around for USAPA to drag this out for 5 years with their "Gold Standard" DOH bu!!$hit. More likely a Southwest/AirTran style prenup. A ratioed- by-equipment list using Nic. resulting in 25-30% raises for the east. If the east doesn't like it they'll like the alternative a whole lot less.

Of course Parker could also decide he'd rather throw 1500 west pilots under the bus than 3000 east, and tell APA it's USAPA's DOH with fences list or the deal's off, and invite the west pilots to spend the next decade trying to fight it in court.

Frankly I can see Parker pulling off either one....

 

[DustyBottoms]

Judge Wake thought he could force the Nic but the 9th and the SCOTUS removed that restriction. If an arbitrator thinks he will reinstate it now he has more rocks in his head than Wake.

Removed what restriction? That USAPA is maintaining its duty of fair representation until it puts out its own list to vote? It sounds like you haven't read any of the court documents (Wake's and the 9th). I didn't read all of the court docs, but I didn't see anything about Wake forcing the NIC... or the 9th and SCOTUS giving USAPA carte blanche without any liability. Actually, I haven't read anywhere that SCOTUS even heard the case...

An arbitrator will use the lists the lawful representatives (APA and USAPA) provides him. If anyone (including USAPA) expects to give an arbitrator a list that has never been ratified, much less implimented (Nic or DOH, both of which are wholly foreign to the present employment circumstances of the two pilot groups) they are fools. Not that the profession lacks its share of such.

Huh? What list does USAPA give to the arbitrator? According to you, USAPA can't give a list to the arbitrator other than the individual East and West lists.

If that's what you're saying, then I agree... three lists to work from. And guess what two lists have already been previously integrated into one list by an arbitrator. Guess which resluting list list a certain side can reference from, where months of arbitration has already been accomplished by fellow arbitrator. Guess which list will provide the least amount of legal obstacles for APA and the New Company. Guess which list APA could piggy back from to get the top two or three thousand spots for their wide bodies.

In other words, I'm not sure that the NIC is a done deal, but the cards are certainly stacked against whatever USAPA has in mind.

 

[Turtle21]

My guess is Parker won't wait around for USAPA to drag this out for 5 years with their "Gold Standard" DOH bu!!$hit. More likely a Southwest/AirTran style prenup. A ratioed- by-equipment list using Nic. resulting in 25-30% raises for the east. If the east doesn't like it they'll like the alternative a whole lot less.

Of course Parker could also decide he'd rather throw 1500 west pilots under the bus than 3000 east, and tell APA it's USAPA's DOH with fences list or the deal's off, and invite the west pilots to spend the next decade trying to fight it in court.

Frankly I can see Parker pulling off either one....

There are three ratified lists that are presently enforced. An arbitrator could not possibly expect to work on anything other than ratified lists or he would expect an injunction post haste.

Disputed lists of bygone eras would be of no use.

 

[Turtle21]

Removed what restriction? That USAPA is maintaining its duty of fair representation until it puts out its own list to vote? It sounds like you haven't read any of the court documents (Wake's and the 9th). I didn't read all of the court docs, but I didn't see anything about Wake forcing the NIC... or the 9th and SCOTUS giving USAPA carte blanche without any liability. Actually, I haven't read anywhere that SCOTUS even heard the case...



Huh? What list does USAPA give to the arbitrator? According to you, USAPA can't give a list to the arbitrator other than the individual East and West lists.

If that's what you're saying, then I agree... three lists to work from. And guess what two lists have already been previously integrated into one list by an arbitrator. Guess which resluting list list a certain side can reference from, where months of arbitration has already been accomplished by fellow arbitrator. Guess which list will provide the least amount of legal obstacles for APA and the New Company. Guess which list APA could piggy back from to get the top two or three thousand spots for their wide bodies.

In other words, I'm not sure that the NIC is a done deal, but the cards are certainly stacked against whatever USAPA has in mind.

How is a union going to pass an arbitrator anything other than the ratified lists that it presently enforces? And besides the Nic is ancient history of different lists than exist today and was formulated on factors that are irrelevant now.

 

[sean67]

Judge Wake thought he could force the Nic but the 9th and the SCOTUS removed that restriction. If an arbitrator thinks he will reinstate it now he has more rocks in his head than Wake.

An arbitrator will use the lists the lawful representatives (APA and USAPA) provides him. If anyone (including USAPA) expects to give an arbitrator a list that has never been ratified, much less implimented (Nic or DOH, both of which are wholly foreign to the present employment circumstances of the two pilot groups) they are fools. Not that the profession lacks its share of such.

I agree..What do I know, but I believe it'll be a do over. Nic has never been implemented.

 

[Lampshade]

I agree..What do I know, but I believe it'll be a do over. Nic has never been implemented.

Of course you believe that because you are a east recall, Jr.to all the AWA guys. I know you don't like it and want another bite at the apple (at the wests expense) but it's not going to happen..ever. The reaality fist is about to meet your nose. Enjoy.

 

[captfred]

The reaality fist is about to meet your nose. Enjoy.

Too funny. Hey your avitar picture loks like a fat dude I have seen in the crewroom maining the pickleballer bb.