It's like AT ALPA is trying to burn their undeserved lottery ticket...

[oriondriver]

Btw, once the SWA FO's start upgrading around our senior FO's, shouldn't our FO's get override pay for flying with junior SWA FO's? Same principle.

AT FOs will be getting AT Capt pay starting in Apr 2011. That is all they originally hoped for when they took the job at AT. They are realizing their career expectations way earlier than they would have with a stand alone AT.

 

[redflyer65]

Orion is exactly right..let me throw out some numbers to illustrate...


Airtran original payscale as of Sept. 26, 2009..

6 year FO - 74/hr, 6 year CA - 124/hr


if that same FO brings his longevity to Southwest..

6 year SW FO - 134.09/hr adjusted Trip for Pay.

They get their Airtran upgrade...plus an easy 10 dollars more per hour with less out of pocket with Health Care, Profit Sharing, etc, etc.

Show me how I'm wrong.

RF

 

[Ty Webb]

AT FOs will be getting AT Capt pay starting in Apr 2011.

Really? When will those retro checks start arriving?

That is all they originally hoped for when they took the job at AT. They are realizing their career expectations way earlier than they would have with a stand alone AT.

I'm sure writing stuff like this makes you feel better, but statements like this don't win anyone over to your side; they accomplish the opposite.

AAI pilots read this stuff and realize that they will be viewed and treated as second-class citizens by people like you, unless we receive real system seniority.

 

[General Lee]

AT FOs will be getting AT Capt pay starting in Apr 2011. That is all they originally hoped for when they took the job at AT. They are realizing their career expectations way earlier than they would have with a stand alone AT.

What about when Mars attacks and blew up all of the Southwest 737-300s, and Southwest pilots had to take 50% paycuts in the early part of next year? How do you know what will happen or COULD HAVE happened in the future? You say all the Airtran guys could have EXPECTED is what was in their current contract? Really? You're just guessing, right? Thought so. Idiocy. They could have hit it big and Southwest could have taken a dive for some reason, and everything would have changed, except what is in YOUR HEAD.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Just like when the earth stopped it's rotation and there was a moment of silence in Atlanta when the beloved Delta filed for bankruptcy? At the least the double breasted arrogance stopped...for one day.

 

[madjack]

They could have hit it big and Southwest could have taken a dive for some reason, and everything would have changed,

Well that did not happen and that is why the discussion is what it is...stick to reality which is AAI was acquired...the airplanes belong to SWA, AAI Pilots bring an inferior CBA to the table...that is not hubris, it is fact, and that is what drove negotiations and ultimately the AIP we have before us....

 

[dicko]

ultimately the AIP we have before us....

"Us" ..... ? :erm:

 

[stein429]

This discourse is almost as much fun as the USAPA tit-for-tat.

It's working in that direction. Keep it up guys/gals becuse it's getting very amusing.

 

[scoreboardII]

Tex...

I am asking this respectfully, so please respond in kind:

I get it how some SWA F/O's might be upset with having to fly with an AirTran Capt. that is junior to them. But I don't see how that holds any water considering that the AirTran Capt. is flying AirTran aircraft that came over with the combination. It's not like the AAI pilot group showed up hat in hand, in bankruptcy, and brought no aircraft to the table. They did. 140 to be exact, plus 50 options.

So if AAI pilots just flew AAI aircraft, how would that affect a SWA F/O who would never have had access to those aircraft in the first place if it were not for the merger of these two operations?

Don, your where civil so shall I: Airtran aircraft became SWA aircraft on date of corporate closing. Right now, AT pilots are flying SWA jets. SWA jets bought off the backs of SWA pilot labor which banked the cash to make this deal happen.

The AT pilots brought nothing to the deal except a liabilty caused by law to be fair and equitable.

SWA pilots however bring our contract which AT pilots want, not the other way around. Please keep to the facts when discussing whats really happening, thanks.

 

[Sacha]

just like when the earth stopped it's rotation and there was a moment of silence in atlanta when the beloved delta filed for bankruptcy? At the least the double breasted arrogance stopped...for one day.

shack!

 

[Ty Webb]

Don, your where civil so shall I: Airtran aircraft became SWA aircraft on date of corporate closing. Right now, AT pilots are flying SWA jets. SWA jets bought off the backs of SWA pilot labor which banked the cash to make this deal happen.

Ok, it's clear there is no intelligent conversation to be had here. See ya.

 

[scoreboardII]

not as long as you keep making one line personal attacks, not suprising

 

[LearLove]

check this out - this AT guy actually likes the deal - says Vote YES - and he looks junior

Can't believe it....

http://tinyurl.com/airtranyesvote

 

[DonVerita]

Don, your where civil so shall I: Airtran aircraft became SWA aircraft on date of corporate closing. Right now, AT pilots are flying SWA jets. SWA jets bought off the backs of SWA pilot labor which banked the cash to make this deal happen.

The AT pilots brought nothing to the deal except a liabilty caused by law to be fair and equitable.

SWA pilots however bring our contract which AT pilots want, not the other way around. Please keep to the facts when discussing whats really happening, thanks.

Score...thanks for keeping it civil.

What you are failing to mention in your ownership opinion is this:

When SWA the Company entered into the agreement to bring AAI into the fold ("acquired" as some of your guys like to say), they also accepted/inherited the AirTran CBA in its entirety including all of the scope provisions contained therein. It is those scope protections that protect a pilot group and their years of seniority and longevity. What if the new mega carrier known as Delta/Northwest decided to acquire SWA? Would you not expect your years of service to SWA to be protected just like we at AAI do? Would you not expect a fair and equitable SLI that results in you being viewed as a peer amongst your new fellow pilots rather than a 2nd class citizen?

So you view fair and equitable as a..."liability"?

To say AAI brought "nothing to the deal" is preposterous. It smacks of elitism.

Some would say that what AAI brings to the table is for the benefit of SWA the Company, not SWAPA the pilot group and therefore SWAPA the pilot group gains nothing, but A-ALPA the pilot group gains substantially. Monetarily...yes. But that is between SWA the Company and A-ALPA. Those gains are for doing the exact same job as a SWAPA pilot. Should an AAI pilot have to give up 32% seniority for doing the same job as a SWAPA pilot?

Has any Harm come to a SWAPA pilot in this AIP? What does a SWAPA pilot gain? How about the critcal mass that comes with the overnight addition of 140 aircraft to the combined fleet along with the 50 options, the latter of which equals growth, the former of which ensures that the new combined company has the mass and muscle to hold their own against the new behemoths of the industry: the aforementioned DAL/NWA, the new UAL/CAL, and possibly a 3rd titan in the form of AMR/???.

So, yes...let's please keep to the facts when discussing what's really happening, thanks.

 

[jonjuan]

Don, your where civil so shall I: Airtran aircraft became SWA aircraft on date of corporate closing. Right now, AT pilots are flying SWA jets. SWA jets bought off the backs of SWA pilot labor which banked the cash to make this deal happen.

LOL-this place is funnier than the John Stewart Show-and only for $10 beans.
How about this: SWA got a screaming deal off the backs of pilots who worked way harder and were paid way less. Time to have ALPA take it back.

 

[Ty Webb]

check this out - this AT guy actually likes the deal - says Vote YES - and he looks junior

Can't believe it....

http://tinyurl.com/airtranyesvote

:laugh: Classic 1990's rickroll . . . . . . . . Well played. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[redflyer65]

Score...thanks for keeping it civil.

What you are failing to mention in your ownership opinion is this:

When SWA the Company entered into the agreement to bring AAI into the fold ("acquired" as some of your guys like to say), they also accepted/inherited the AirTran CBA in its entirety including all of the scope provisions contained therein. It is those scope protections that protect a pilot group and their years of seniority and longevity. What if the new mega carrier known as Delta/Northwest decided to acquire SWA? Would you not expect your years of service to SWA to be protected just like we at AAI do? Would you not expect a fair and equitable SLI that results in you being viewed as a peer amongst your new fellow pilots rather than a 2nd class citizen?

So you view fair and equitable as a..."liability"?

To say AAI brought "nothing to the deal" is preposterous. It smacks of elitism.

Some would say that what AAI brings to the table is for the benefit of SWA the Company, not SWAPA the pilot group and therefore SWAPA the pilot group gains nothing, but A-ALPA the pilot group gains substantially. Monetarily...yes. But that is between SWA the Company and A-ALPA. Those gains are for doing the exact same job as a SWAPA pilot. Should an AAI pilot have to give up 32% seniority for doing the same job as a SWAPA pilot?

Has any Harm come to a SWAPA pilot in this AIP? What does a SWAPA pilot gain? How about the critcal mass that comes with the overnight addition of 140 aircraft to the combined fleet along with the 50 options, the latter of which equals growth, the former of which ensures that the new combined company has the mass and muscle to hold their own against the new behemoths of the industry: the aforementioned DAL/NWA, the new UAL/CAL, and possibly a 3rd titan in the form of AMR/???.

So, yes...let's please keep to the facts when discussing what's really happening, thanks.

Your almost right Don. The AAI CBA brings nothing to the SW pilots, but for some reason the AAI pilots would love to be under the SWAPA contract.

The check says Southwest Airlines, but the CBA was acquired over years of hard work from SWAPA.

AAI corporate brought the planes and the gates...that is a corporate business deal only..has nothing to do with the CBA's or the pilot groups.

If you are trying to justify this as a merger of equals like NW/DL, I would say you aren't even in the same ballpark. The exact reason people from AAI would try sooo hard to get hired at SW...just like we all did.

RF

 

[dicko]

a liabilty caused by law to be fair and equitable.

Nice world view. Although it does sum up SWAPA's moral stance pretty well.

Maybe you should put that quote in SWAPA's charter. If you're looking for some examples to help with the perfect wording, I'd head straight for The Klan or maybe Darth Vaders personal poetry collection.

.

 

[kwick]

Don, your where civil so shall I: Airtran aircraft became SWA aircraft on date of corporate closing. Right now, AT pilots are flying SWA jets. SWA jets bought off the backs of SWA pilot labor which banked the cash to make this deal happen.

The AT pilots brought nothing to the deal except a liabilty caused by law to be fair and equitable.

SWA pilots however bring our contract which AT pilots want, not the other way around. Please keep to the facts when discussing whats really happening, thanks.

If AT brings nothing to the table, you better call GK and ask him
why he would spend good money to buy them.

What was SW's pay, after 15 or so years of existence. About the
same as AT, and probably less compared to the rates of other airlines at that time.

 

[redflyer65]

If AT brings nothing to the table, you better call GK and ask him
why he would spend good money to buy them.

What was SW's pay, after 15 or so years of existence. About the
same as AT, and probably less compared to the rates of other airlines at that time.

Both of your arguements make no sense. Gary bought out a competitor with minimal outlay, and picked up ATL, DCA, and more LGA slots in the meantime. Things that happen when one coporation buys another...they get the stuff. This has absolutely nothing to do with the labor, on either side.

I'm glad in your second statement you agree to the huge pay dispairity between AAI and SW...NOW. This has nothing to do with a history lesson, but more to do with contract differences on Sept. 27th. Like night and day.