Irony

[ultrarunner]

I think single-carrier status only covers NJA/NJI.

 

[jtf]

NJLA are all part of the NJA list mostly in the top 20 or so with a few further back when FO slots opened up. If any of those pilots gets furloughed I would imagine almost every single airplane would be grounded almost immediately due to every possible mx issue. That would be going out of seniority order and that would be a disaster for the company to try to pull that one. However, they could easily go out of order with NJI (from the virtual seniority list that included NJI) since NJI isn't fully integrated yet and isn't part of the union. RS promised to abide by the virtual seniority list, but he isn't here to do that anymore so it will be interesting. I have heard NJI flying is down at least as much as NJA so I can't imagine them not getting rid of pilots if NJA must lose some also. RS protected the NJI as long as he could, but once again there is a new fearless leader and he seems to be all about the bottom line. I see rough seas on the horizon for those at the bottom of both sides.

 

[Dirty Dingus]

If NJA will not allow NJI to be involved in their union until intergration why would they expect NJI to furlough on a VSL along with NJA pilot's????
They should get on with the program of intergration if they want to include NJI in furlough's, (If that happen's)
It appears that the NJA union wants to include NJI only when it's to their advantage???? Am I missing something here????

 

[Pervis]

Dingus, any delay in integration is not union driven. Ask "Cast of Thousands" what the new plan is. He publishes info here more than to the NJA/NJI pilots, and integration is his baby, for now. Maybe BW can provide some detail as well? I'd trust his word far more than most.

 

[Dirty Dingus]

C O T/ BW, can you please answer my question if possible. I know nothing about how union's operate. But this clearly looks like the union want's to include NJI in the pain and not give them any help when it comes to other matter's. Tks

 

[CE750Driver]

C O T/ BW, can you please answer my question if possible. I know nothing about how union's operate. But this clearly looks like the union want's to include NJI in the pain and not give them any help when it comes to other matter's. Tks

NJI guys should hope the company furloughs from the VSL. There is nothing LEGALLY stopping the company from laying NJI guys off in a manner out of seniority that would result in the least amount of training.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

If NJA will not allow NJI to be involved in their union until intergration why would they expect NJI to furlough on a VSL along with NJA pilot's????

Not true...

I am deeply involved with NJASAP on integration issues (along with 3 colleagues) and have a direct line to them. In fact I just spoke with a VP today.

Sorry Dingus, but your statement is unfounded.

 

[FL450]

It has already been announced that NJLA is finished as of the first part of 2010 and the BBJs will be sold. All NJLA pilots will bid or be displaced to another fleet. They will not be furloughed. To get to those seniority numbers, NJA would no longer exist.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

There is nothing LEGALLY stopping the company from laying NJI guys off in a manner out of seniority that would result in the least amount of training.

Winner winner.... Chicken dinner.

 

[FL450]

Why would NJASAP insist NJA and NJI are one in the same(single carrier) and not insist on anything happening via the VSL? That makes zero sense!
Not accurate at all.

..........don't make me bop you with a dilly bar!

 

[Dirty Dingus]

Wolf, what I'm asking is why does NJA want to include NJI only when it appears to benifit them, ie: pilot furlough's, (such as the VSL) and not let them into the union family, in any form at all at this time?????
Also has the NJI mgt ever screwed over the NJI pilot's to the point where the pilot's shouldn't trust them. Just asking, I know nothing much of what's going on there!!!!!

 

[notapilot]

Griz, maybe that happens next week? Even so, it does seem a bit backwards to me. I was taught that when you're seriously cleaning house you start at the top and work your way down.

Who taught you that? That's never been how it's done and makes no sense. Stick to other topics you no nothing about.

 

[netjetwife]

Dingus, furloughing by date of hire is the fair thing to do and NJASAP formed an integration committee made up of pilots from both groups. To show those from NJI how the Union operates the leadership recently invited them to tour the NJASAP office and sit in on EBoard meetings. From all accounts, the NJI pilots found it helpful and informative. I think the idea was for them to share what they had learned about the Union w/their peers. Perhaps those who didn't get the word can ask them for a personal report. Alternatively, NJI pilots can have their own interaction w/ Union leaders on the section of the NJASAP board that has been set aside for NJI pilots. It was provided to them so that they can gain more knowledge of NJASAP and have their individual questions answered promptly by the leadership.

There are legal limits to help the Union can give to non-members, but to me it appears that NJASAP is doing all it can at this point. That said, I encourage the NJI pilots to use their section of the NJASAP board to address their specific concerns. Personal involvement will help ensure a smooth integration and add to one's education regarding Union matters. NJW

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Wolf, what I'm asking is why does NJA want to include NJI only when it appears to benifit them, ie: pilot furlough's, (such as the VSL) and not let them into the union family, in any form at all at this time?????

I honestly cant speak on behalf of the union concerning this specific issue.

However... here are some thoughts.

• If the company furloughs off the VSL they are in fact recognizing the rights of ALL pilots on the VSL to return in proper order to NetJets once things turn around.
• NJI could "furlough" pilots and basically say "addios" with NO recall rights whatsoever (highly unlikely, but legal)
• Without using the VSL, NJI could furlough out of seniority order to defray training costs.
• A VSL furlough could actually help NJI pilots... lets say they need to furlough 15% across the board. Thats ruffly 500 guys on the VSL, thus eliminating around 33 of our guys. if they did 15% each side, it would eliminate more than that.

Just a few things that make you step back and think. The integration needs to happen sooner than later in my opinion. If the groups are to be merged, lets get it over with. This thing is dragging out worse than a College Lit. class.


Wolf

 

[notapilot]

nevermind