Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Irony

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
Pervis said:
Savings in office staff may not add up to much overall, but the redundancies we've lived with for so long are rediculous. About 40 VPs, and how many DO's, ADO's, etc. We have to get smart to survive in this environment.
Click to expand...

Wanna hazard a guess as to how many of those folks packed their belongings on Friday?

The worker bees got fired - not the managers.
 
Griz, maybe that happens next week? Even so, it does seem a bit backwards to me. I was taught that when you're seriously cleaning house you start at the top and work your way down.

Thanks, SG. I'm adding MCC to my vocabulary and if I get accused of really being a pilot when I use it :rolleyes: you can have the first laugh... :p

RCR5, your list looks helpful--nice gesture! I'm glad to hear you found another job. Hopefully things will turn around for all the other pilots still looking.
 
Grizz said:
Wanna hazard a guess as to how many of those folks packed their belongings on Friday?

The worker bees got fired - not the managers.
Click to expand...

I guess I could've been more clear. That's my point-too many chiefs that need to be thinned. Their decisions alone cost us millions. I could've designed an ugly stripe for far less that that "lord". Let's hope phase two cuts the root cause of our waste.
 
Normal protocol for corporate downsizing. Get the managers to fire the workers then get the VPs to fire the managers. That way everyone's hands get dirty.
 
Grizz said:
The worker bees got fired - not the managers.
Click to expand...

Exactly Grizz...

It takes 6-10 worker bees to equal the salary of one certain individual working for "The Office of the Chairman". But whatever....

As for pilots.. they have two things going for them.


  1. The contract.
  2. The training investment costs/retraining costs in the restructuring.

Only the man with the steel briefcase cuffed to his wrist knows the exact number where X crosses Y to = the proper amount of furloughs.
 
netjetwife said:
Wolf, to clarify, I was wondering if there will be other (non-pilot) staff reductions in CMH. NJW
Click to expand...

Yeah... who knows.

My personal thoughts are probably in line with the main stream. "Show me your plan to the road of recovery before you ask me to pay for the gas".


 
Totally uncalled for!

If the workforce of any American corporation could work witht the passion of Netjets Wife and match her passion and energy; we wouldn't have a financial crisis, a recession or any measurable unemployment.

I guess it's easier to sit on your ass and criticize others than actually try and make a difference in peoples lives, or show compassion when, "life comes at you fast."
 
netjetwife said:
Griz, maybe that happens next week? Even so, it does seem a bit backwards to me. I was taught that when you're seriously cleaning house you start at the top and work your way down.
Click to expand...

I disagree. The managers are the ones capable of picking up the pieces and reassigning duties. If you cut them first, then you're left with a bunch of children in class without a teacher.

I expect a 2nd round [of CMH folks] in a couple months.

By the way, job cuts were made well above the peon level.
 
NJLA are all part of the NJA list mostly in the top 20 or so with a few further back when FO slots opened up. If any of those pilots gets furloughed I would imagine almost every single airplane would be grounded almost immediately due to every possible mx issue. That would be going out of seniority order and that would be a disaster for the company to try to pull that one. However, they could easily go out of order with NJI (from the virtual seniority list that included NJI) since NJI isn't fully integrated yet and isn't part of the union. RS promised to abide by the virtual seniority list, but he isn't here to do that anymore so it will be interesting. I have heard NJI flying is down at least as much as NJA so I can't imagine them not getting rid of pilots if NJA must lose some also. RS protected the NJI as long as he could, but once again there is a new fearless leader and he seems to be all about the bottom line. I see rough seas on the horizon for those at the bottom of both sides.
 
If NJA will not allow NJI to be involved in their union until intergration why would they expect NJI to furlough on a VSL along with NJA pilot's????
They should get on with the program of intergration if they want to include NJI in furlough's, (If that happen's)
It appears that the NJA union wants to include NJI only when it's to their advantage???? Am I missing something here????:confused:
 
Dingus, any delay in integration is not union driven. Ask "Cast of Thousands" what the new plan is. He publishes info here more than to the NJA/NJI pilots, and integration is his baby, for now. Maybe BW can provide some detail as well? I'd trust his word far more than most.
 
C O T/ BW, can you please answer my question if possible. I know nothing about how union's operate. But this clearly looks like the union want's to include NJI in the pain and not give them any help when it comes to other matter's. Tks
 
Dirty Dingus said:
C O T/ BW, can you please answer my question if possible. I know nothing about how union's operate. But this clearly looks like the union want's to include NJI in the pain and not give them any help when it comes to other matter's. Tks
Click to expand...

NJI guys should hope the company furloughs from the VSL. There is nothing LEGALLY stopping the company from laying NJI guys off in a manner out of seniority that would result in the least amount of training.
 
Dirty Dingus said:
If NJA will not allow NJI to be involved in their union until intergration why would they expect NJI to furlough on a VSL along with NJA pilot's????
Click to expand...


Not true...

I am deeply involved with NJASAP on integration issues (along with 3 colleagues) and have a direct line to them. In fact I just spoke with a VP today.

Sorry Dingus, but your statement is unfounded.
 
It has already been announced that NJLA is finished as of the first part of 2010 and the BBJs will be sold. All NJLA pilots will bid or be displaced to another fleet. They will not be furloughed. To get to those seniority numbers, NJA would no longer exist.
 
Why would NJASAP insist NJA and NJI are one in the same(single carrier) and not insist on anything happening via the VSL? That makes zero sense!
Not accurate at all.

..........don't make me bop you with a dilly bar!
 
Wolf, what I'm asking is why does NJA want to include NJI only when it appears to benifit them, ie: pilot furlough's, (such as the VSL) and not let them into the union family, in any form at all at this time????? :confused:
Also has the NJI mgt ever screwed over the NJI pilot's to the point where the pilot's shouldn't trust them. Just asking, I know nothing much of what's going on there!!!!!
 
Last edited:
netjetwife said:
Griz, maybe that happens next week? Even so, it does seem a bit backwards to me. I was taught that when you're seriously cleaning house you start at the top and work your way down.
Click to expand...


Who taught you that? That's never been how it's done and makes no sense. Stick to other topics you no nothing about.
 
Dingus, furloughing by date of hire is the fair thing to do and NJASAP formed an integration committee made up of pilots from both groups. To show those from NJI how the Union operates the leadership recently invited them to tour the NJASAP office and sit in on EBoard meetings. From all accounts, the NJI pilots found it helpful and informative. I think the idea was for them to share what they had learned about the Union w/their peers. Perhaps those who didn't get the word can ask them for a personal report. Alternatively, NJI pilots can have their own interaction w/ Union leaders on the section of the NJASAP board that has been set aside for NJI pilots. It was provided to them so that they can gain more knowledge of NJASAP and have their individual questions answered promptly by the leadership.

There are legal limits to help the Union can give to non-members, but to me it appears that NJASAP is doing all it can at this point. That said, I encourage the NJI pilots to use their section of the NJASAP board to address their specific concerns. Personal involvement will help ensure a smooth integration and add to one's education regarding Union matters. NJW
 
Dirty Dingus said:
Wolf, what I'm asking is why does NJA want to include NJI only when it appears to benifit them, ie: pilot furlough's, (such as the VSL) and not let them into the union family, in any form at all at this time????? :confused:
Click to expand...

I honestly cant speak on behalf of the union concerning this specific issue.

However... here are some thoughts.


  • If the company furloughs off the VSL they are in fact recognizing the rights of ALL pilots on the VSL to return in proper order to NetJets once things turn around.
  • NJI could "furlough" pilots and basically say "addios" with NO recall rights whatsoever (highly unlikely, but legal)
  • Without using the VSL, NJI could furlough out of seniority order to defray training costs.
  • A VSL furlough could actually help NJI pilots... lets say they need to furlough 15% across the board. Thats ruffly 500 guys on the VSL, thus eliminating around 33 of our guys. if they did 15% each side, it would eliminate more than that.

Just a few things that make you step back and think. The integration needs to happen sooner than later in my opinion. If the groups are to be merged, lets get it over with. This thing is dragging out worse than a College Lit. class.


Wolf
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom