Informational Stapling Compass to Delta Website

[IFLYIMC]

No CPZ pilots have been offered flowthrough, though.

No one is hiring, so no flow. We do have at least half a dozen eligible to flow. The next batch of eligible flows is another six months...

 

[IFLYIMC]

Which letter are you reading. I am trying to find the language.

Here you go;
Feeder Carrier Affiliate pilots who elect protected right status:

a. Must do so within forty-five (45) days after their notification of an employment opportunity at Northwest; (1) By doing so, the Feeder Carrier Affiliate pilot will (except as provided in paragraph D.2.c. below) permanently forfeit any future employment opportunity at Northwest Airlines provided by the flow through agreement with Northwest Airlines and Compass Airlines.

b. A protected rights Compass Airlines pilot shall be senior at Compass Airlines to any pilot flowing down from Northwest Airlines subsequent to the employment of the protected rights pilot at Compass Airlines.

c. No more than ninety percent (90%) of pilot positions will be preserved for Northwest Airlines pilots (a "preserved position"). No more than ten
22-3 Section 22 - Seniority July 26, 2007
percent (10%) of pilot positions will be preserved for pilots electing protected rights status (a "rights status position") at Compass Airlines. In the event of a reduction in the total number of positions at Compass, the number of "preserved positions" and "rights status positions" will be adjusted to maintain the nine to one (9:1) ratio. "Rights status" will be removed from pilots in reverse seniority order and such pilot will again have flow rights to Northwest.
3. Compass Airlines pilots will be offered employment at Northwest Airlines before any other Northwest Airlines Affiliate Carrier or new hires from the street directly to Northwest Airlines.

 

[FBN0223]

I When DL furloughs all at Compass will be on the steet and DL pilots will be in those seats for a long time

Those seats never belonged to Compass pilots in the first place.

Resolutions should be based solely on recapturing ALL outsourced flying starting with the EMB175. If that includes bringing Compass pilots on to our Delta list then I see no problem. But no sacrifices should be made on behalf of the Delta pilot group. Our priority is to recapture our flying not to hand out seniority numbers.

 

[Superpilot92]

I think the 100% is correct until CPZ pilots get to choose whether they want to flow-up, and only 10% are protected if they decline. Since no one has had that choice yet, I believe DAL still gets 100% until that point.

This is correct. No one has been offered the flowthrough so 100% of the seats are available.

 

[Buzo]

Here you go;
Feeder Carrier Affiliate pilots who elect protected right status:

a. Must do so within forty-five (45) days after their notification of an employment opportunity at Northwest; (1) By doing so, the Feeder Carrier Affiliate pilot will (except as provided in paragraph D.2.c. below) permanently forfeit any future employment opportunity at Northwest Airlines provided by the flow through agreement with Northwest Airlines and Compass Airlines.

b. A protected rights Compass Airlines pilot shall be senior at Compass Airlines to any pilot flowing down from Northwest Airlines subsequent to the employment of the protected rights pilot at Compass Airlines.

c. No more than ninety percent (90%) of pilot positions will be preserved for Northwest Airlines pilots (a "preserved position"). No more than ten
22-3 Section 22 - Seniority July 26, 2007
percent (10%) of pilot positions will be preserved for pilots electing protected rights status (a "rights status position") at Compass Airlines. In the event of a reduction in the total number of positions at Compass, the number of "preserved positions" and "rights status positions" will be adjusted to maintain the nine to one (9:1) ratio. "Rights status" will be removed from pilots in reverse seniority order and such pilot will again have flow rights to Northwest.
3. Compass Airlines pilots will be offered employment at Northwest Airlines before any other Northwest Airlines Affiliate Carrier or new hires from the street directly to Northwest Airlines.

This doesn't go into effect until DAL is hiring and people decide to stay at Compass. As of right now, DAL gets 100% of the seats.

 

[Blade Runner]

Blade:
Not sure if you're CMR or XJ. But looking at things, if you're cmr, you might want to start looking for a new line of work! And thank the senior cmr types for the perdicament they put you in today

I'm XJ, We had a very good relationship with NWA MEC and would very much like that to continue with the DAL MEC. Time will tell.

 

[ROSWELL41]

I think it would be a good start to get Compass on the DAL list.

Everyone seems to knock a few guys who don't want the staple at Compass. What if these F/O's in question came to Compass looking for a quick upgrade to go to FDX, UPS, SWA? Maybe they want the PIC time and really don't want anything to do with Delta. The staple would essentially tie them to Delta permanently or force them to look elsewhere to get PIC time. No, I don't work for Compass. Just food for thought.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Roswell,

I think (only 80% sure) an SLI would require member ratification at some point. That pilot could vote.

As for a FO looking for a quick upgrade, how is that going to work at an airline with a 36 jet fleet that is not going to grow under Delta's scope? The best way for this FO to see growth is to hope for a merger which would free Delta to exercise its 36 E175, or E190 options AT MAINLINE.

It is unlikely that many (if any) mainline pilots would bid to Compass unless to improve quality of life, bases or commuting. This push is really about job security, Delta mainline growth, and closing a scope loophole.

... and lets not get confused and think a single list is right around the corner. If (a big IF) the MEC decided a single list policy benefited its pilots, it would be either a management decision to merge the lists, or a item the union had to negotiate.

Many think (me included) that management has economic reasons to consolidate Compass and mainline. But if that is not the case, it might drag all the way out to Section 6 four or five years from now.

I think it is most likely Compass will be split from the MEC, which is the first step in packaging the entity up for a cancellation of the bridges that bind Delta and Compass together. The flow & job protections will be traded away for some trinket that supposedly benefits the entire pilot group.

This "combine compass" effort is hoped to educate pilots so they see that the greatest value to our pilot group is Compass itself, or in a word, "unity." If we decide that we may want to pursue a single list in the future, that answers the question whether we want to split Compass away now.

We have another door of opportunity that is closing. If (a big IF) the pilots at Delta (and Compass since they are represented by Delta) decide that one list is worth pursuing then it holds the door open for unity.

 

[BOHICAgain]

This is correct. No one has been offered the flowthrough so 100% of the seats are available.

Yup he is correct again. As of today 100% of the seats belong to DAL pilots.

This month the first 2 line pilots become eligible. We have a handful of managment pilots eligible already but they are probably going to stay put.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I'm XJ, We had a very good relationship with NWA MEC and would very much like that to continue with the DAL MEC. Time will tell.

Don't interpret "combine compass" as in any way excluding you, CMR, or any other group.

Compass has a representational question that needs to be answered in the very near term. A door of opportunity may be closing. If the door is held open for Compass, that sends a signal to other bargaining groups and enhances the relationships between bargaining groups.

 

[~~~^~~~]

And if DAL furloughs they will all be on street, with or without a staple. If they flow up, they go right to the bottom of list. I think most would rather have recall rights to DAL instead of CPZ

Along those lines, the Alaska pilots might be the ones who should have concerns about this (just joking).

At US Air, pilots who flowed down to MidAtlantic (1998 DOH) were considered furloughed by the arbitrator and stapled behind the most junior America West pilot (2004).

If a Delta pilot gets displaced to an E170, it would be much better if they were considered "Delta" pilots and not Compass pilots. A designation as a Compass pilot would be about as useful as a job at Home Depot during SLI integration.

 

[GOULET!]

As another first year Compass FO who does not get a vote, nor can I attend the meeting on Monday because of my trip trades being rejected more times than I can count, I too have written my reps and have made my voice heard. We are at a very important time to finally make some progress and return the flying to its rightful spot. Please continue to spread the word. This has the potential to be beneficial for everybody involved.

We CAN NOT afford to have our MEC spun off to be represented seperately. This will be a disaster for the Compass pilot group and for the future of the industry.

 

[ROSWELL41]

I hope you guys can get Compass stapled on the list. Another question though: what would stop management from adding more outsourced 76 seat jets once the Compass planes are now considered 'mainline'? Aren't 3 large RJs allowed for every additional mainline plane? How are you guys going to cause those 36 E-175s to not be considered 'mainline growth'? I figure this is what management will want? Are you guys willing to make this tradeoff?

 

[Fly4hire]

Along those lines, the Alaska pilots might be the ones who should have concerns about this (just joking).

At US Air, pilots who flowed down to MidAtlantic (1998 DOH) were considered furloughed by the arbitrator and stapled behind the most junior America West pilot (2004).

If a Delta pilot gets displaced to an E170, it would be much better if they were considered "Delta" pilots and not Compass pilots. A designation as a Compass pilot would be about as useful as a job at Home Depot during SLI integration.

I agree with you, OTOH a seniority number is a seniority number - this was done by the arbitrator. The only way I see to really get around possible pitfall is to have the pilots and the aircraft on the property - or not use an arbitrator. We can call it a a super-duper-not-really-furlough category, but an arbitrator can look at it and say it's still a furlough by any other name.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The only way I see to really get around possible pitfall is to have the pilots and the aircraft on the property.

Exactly. .......

The way I see it, the downside risks to divesting Compass from the Delta MEC are:

• Reduction of Delta pilots negotiating power in the next Section 6
• Creation of an alter ego whipsaw pilot group
• Threats to Section 1
  • Cancellation of the bilateral flow
  • Waiver of the 76 seat fleet reset provision (as a sudden reduction in the flying of other pilot groups likely would trigger ALPA's own protective mechanisms)
  • Expansion of outsourced flying

The upside benefits to supporting a "one list" mentality are:

• More power, as the Delta MEC would represent more of Delta's flying = better contracts
• Improving pay rates, as the 76 seat E170 leaves 12 paying passengers at the gate. There is more revenue to be made in this platform
• A growth airplane in a growth market. Delta can use these to beat Southwest, AirTran, US Air, Air Canada, Virgin and the others.
• Growth for the Delta pilots
• REAL JOB SECURITY for Delta pilots that actually works during a downturn, or corporate merger transaction.
• Outsourcing COSTS money - see below

UPDATE 1-Frontier Airlines gets $40mln DIP commitment

Thu Mar 5, 2009 7:41pm EST
*Republic to provide $40 mln DIP financing to Frontier
*Republic to get damage claim of $150 mln

Those who think getting the E170 back to mainline will be hard need to consider where Republic is going with Delta's money. For one, they are "saving" a competitor, also they are setting up the Indy Air scenario, again

Outsourcing puts money on the balance sheets of Companies who don't like us very much. Last year the DCI carriers reported more than a quarter billion in operating profits. I'd like that in MY profit sharing check, anyone with me?

 

[ROSWELL41]

Exactly. .......

I hope you guys sort out all of the pitfalls. If you guys bring these 36 planes and associated pilots onboard and management outsources 108 more large RJ's as a result...Well you get the idea. Whenever we go to management with our good intentions, it always seems to backfire.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Roswell,

The resolution closes that loophole. If Compass no longer existed, there would be no need for that loophole anyway.

There would have to be minor changes to Section 1 to maintain "status quo."

It is a realistic, small step, to start improving Delta scope. Some are upset that it is not a larger step, but consider, IT IS THE FIRST STEP IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION than the path we have been on since 2001.

The PDF file closes with two excellent quotes that I'm glad they included:

“…our adversaries have developed only one strategy that has ever worked: divide and conquer. They have used it to drive pilot groups to bid against each other, to undermine support for your pilot reps during and after negotiations, and to set pilot groups within a single network against each other in a struggle to fly certain airliners. We must remain eternally vigilant against this strategy. That’s why our union, and the entire labor movement, is renewing the push for unity…. “

Captain Duane Woerth, ALPA President
​

“We are no longer in survival mode, we will spare no effort to aggressively fight. Now, like never before, we are going to work across all segments and corporate brands to restore our proud profession. It is time to take back what all of our pilots gave up, and ALPA is ready to lead that fight.”

Captain John Prater, ALPA President​

This is the action our leadership has directed.

 

[N2264J]

Don't interpret "combine compass" as in any way excluding you, CMR, or any other group.

But that's what this does.

Question: If Delta can realize the savings by combining the Delta and Compass lists, why not get three times the savings and benefits by including Comair and Mesaba? It makes the first paragraph of "The Compass Question" seem silly and insincere while he's trying to set the tone. I understand these flyers are being placed in Vfiles all over the system so we can assume management already has it.

By arbitrarily excluding two of the wholly owns, it showcases a union schism management is sure to exploit.

 

[~~~^~~~]

N2264J,

I agree with your point enthusiastically, but Delta pilots can't make your case for you.

The difference is that the Delta MEC represents the Compass pilots. Delta pilots also have a voice to their MEC.

I have no voice to your MEC and anything that the Delta MEC does has been historically interpreted by the DCI MEC's as hostile and predatory.

Frankly, I'd love it if your MECs got on board! But, Delta pilots have no power to speak for you. You'll need to speak up yourself.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

But that's what this does.

:bawling: :crying: :bawling: :crying:
Try another lawsuit then. After all you were so successful the first time around!

Question: If Delta can realize the savings by combining the Delta and Compass lists, why not get three times the savings and benefits by including Comair and Mesaba?

Answer: Comair is on its way out. As in Buh Bye!