Informational Stapling Compass to Delta Website

[xjhawk]

it burns me to read this.....as an XJ pilot, I think great now that Delta took over Delta, there is one more main line carrier that I cannot get a job at unless I wait years and years for the phantom flow (historically NWA did not hire that many XJ pilots, and the flow....lets be real, flows sound good but mainline has to hire hundreds if not thousands in order for it to get down the list at XJ-so its a very dim light at the end of our long tunnel)

Great job coming up with this one guys, leave the rest of the wholly owned regionals hanging....oh by the way nice line in the sand, the EMB 76 seat jet looks like a mainline aircraft and the EMB 190 does even more! So lets get those and their pilots on the main line list! But lets not say anything about the 900, which has the same seats and the Bombardier 1000 will have the same seats as the EMB 190! Oh I forgot, the Bombardier looks like a regional jet......Whoever came up with this idea should be at ALPA national and direct more rediculous causes..... I am surprised that ALPA national does not spend millions more fighting the age 65 rule.....oh thats right, when it was a lost cause, they switched sides of that fight...

Oh by the way, I was for the age 65 rule change from the beginning since I saw that pensions were leaving us and that the 5 year hit on seniority list stagnation was worth doing what was right...... ALPA, get some common sense..... and delta.... and what ever happened to the days when an airline bought another airline, those pilots became a part of the pilot group? Oh that went out when mainline pilots thought they were too good to fly small jets.... get a frickin life dudes...I am going back to my drinks....

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Yes, go back to your drinks. Enough rambling.

If you understood what the process it, the political winds, etc you would realize that going for what you desire, is in effect a pipe dream. One small significant step is what we need to be doing. Not a leap that goes across an abyss. Miss and you are just plain dead. Calculated moves will win this, not emotional pipe dreams.
It is not that we do not want to, it is just totally unrealistic.

 

[DYLIN]

How do you eat an elephant?

One bite at a time.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Good analogy.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I believe xjhawk aptly proved what beer does to reading comprehension on a saturday night.

If I wasn't still sick, I'd be joining him in spirit. We'll give him this round as a pass and see if he gets it later...

 

[ACL65PILOT]

OK, only if I have to. No beer here.

 

[Hamfighter]

Do you really think this has a remote chance of passing? (That's not sarcasm by the way).
I can't imagine this actually going all the way.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Define "remote"

Yes, I think it does. Some look down the road and realize that by 2012 the DC9's are getting pulled down resulting in a ~1,400 pilot surplus. Guess what else happens in 2012?

Does Delta want to negotiate in Section 6 with furloughed pilots claiming they are hostages to the process? Either way, this DC9 replacement issue has to be addressed. It would be MUCH better to have a plan and deal with it sooner, than have it force the 2012 negotiations to be about scope as pilots are headed out the door.

There are ways to make this work and the parts of the puzzle are coming together. 72 jets at mainline, plus attrition would solve the surplus nicely and give those who want to focus on other issues in 2012 a clear shot to do so.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Great job coming up with this one guys, leave the rest of the wholly owned regionals hanging....oh by the way nice line in the sand, the EMB 76 seat jet looks like a mainline aircraft and the EMB 190 does even more! So lets get those and their pilots on the main line list! But lets not say anything about the 900, which has the same seats and the Bombardier 1000 will have the same seats as the EMB 190!

The only people who keep propagating your "line in the sand" are yourselves. This has to do with the structure of DAL/NW and their relation to Compass. As one said, "You eat an elephant one bite at a time." Compass happens to fly E175s, do you really think there would be any different sentiment negative or positive toward this idea if instead Compass operated CRJ900's or RJ85's even for that matter.

It seems to be the same people who taunt us (Compass pilots) gleefully with "NWA pilots are coming to take your seats!", "You're going be to flowed down on so hard!", "I'm just glad I'm not in your shoes!"... and so forth seem to the ones who are most bitter that this movement is taking place.

We knowingly took a risk coming to Compass, and god-forbid anything good come out of that for us first and you later. It's just sour grapes in the shopping cart of the "me me me society".

 

[ROSWELL41]

So management knows that the pilots want this to happen. What will the Delta pilots be offering in return? This seems to be the piece of the puzzle that I am not seeing. Once management knows you guys want this, the red flag goes up in management's head (even if they can't figure out why they shouldn't agree).

 

[NuGuy]

it burns me to read this.....as an XJ pilot, I think great now that Delta took over Delta, there is one more main line carrier that I cannot get a job at unless I wait years and years for the phantom flow (historically NWA did not hire that many XJ pilots, and the flow....lets be real, flows sound good but mainline has to hire hundreds if not thousands in order for it to get down the list at XJ-so its a very dim light at the end of our long tunnel)

Great job coming up with this one guys, leave the rest of the wholly owned regionals hanging....oh by the way nice line in the sand, the EMB 76 seat jet looks like a mainline aircraft and the EMB 190 does even more! So lets get those and their pilots on the main line list! But lets not say anything about the 900, which has the same seats and the Bombardier 1000 will have the same seats as the EMB 190! Oh I forgot, the Bombardier looks like a regional jet......Whoever came up with this idea should be at ALPA national and direct more rediculous causes..... I am surprised that ALPA national does not spend millions more fighting the age 65 rule.....oh thats right, when it was a lost cause, they switched sides of that fight...

Oh by the way, I was for the age 65 rule change from the beginning since I saw that pensions were leaving us and that the 5 year hit on seniority list stagnation was worth doing what was right...... ALPA, get some common sense..... and delta.... and what ever happened to the days when an airline bought another airline, those pilots became a part of the pilot group? Oh that went out when mainline pilots thought they were too good to fly small jets.... get a frickin life dudes...I am going back to my drinks....

Boo fracking hoo....cry me a river. I don't see XJ offering up ALL of their seats in exchange for a flow. When you do, THEN maybe you can start complaining.

Compass seats are Delta seats, plain and simple.

Nu

 

[~~~^~~~]

So management knows that the pilots want this to happen. What will the Delta pilots be offering in return? This seems to be the piece of the puzzle that I am not seeing. Once management knows you guys want this, the red flag goes up in management's head (even if they can't figure out why they shouldn't agree).

Good point, we have to see what they want. Concessions are NOT on the table. What is on the table, speaking hypothetically:

• More efficient utilization of resources - 88 seats in an 88 seat jet
• More efficient utilization of equipment and crews
• Reduction in operational redundancies
• Operation of an economic 100 seat jet, which they hold 36 options on
• Fixed flow through problem
• Better ability to compete with JetBlue, AAI and Southwest

The "synergies" with NWA were worth billions and ALPA got something for that. Lets say the "synergies" with Compass are worth a nickle. As long as it is not a concession, why not?

We should at least study it.

 

[Fly4hire]

Great job coming up with this one guys, leave the rest of the wholly owned regionals hanging....oh by the way nice line in the sand, the EMB 76 seat jet looks like a mainline aircraft and the EMB 190 does even more! So lets get those and their pilots on the main line list! But lets not say anything about the 900, which has the same seats and the Bombardier 1000 will have the same seats as the EMB 190! Oh I forgot, the Bombardier looks like a regional jet...

A couple subtle and not so subtle differences between XJ and CPZ:

-CPZ was created solely as a concession that offered employment to ~730 furloughed NWA pilots.

-The only reason there are any CPZ street pilots is because NWA recalled. We still have 100% rights to those seats.

-In exchange for the risk they took in working for CPZ, the street hire pilots enjoy 100% flow rights to DAL.

-Part of the agreement for forming CPZ, besides the flow, was the NWA MEC writing the contract and representing them (us).

Reference above, CPZ is unique and distinct from XJ, and even more so the other DCI's, and because of it's origin and relationship enjoys an advantage that XJ does not.

Echoing others comments this is a gradual process. Making a grab now for what is clearly out of reach threatens the whole process.

No one is excluding XJ or other DCI's - we are no where even remotely close to talking about integration even with CPZ other than wishful thinking.

We have not even resolved the first step yet of CPZ's representational structure.

 

[chjack]

The only people who keep propagating your "line in the sand" are yourselves. This has to do with the structure of DAL/NW and their relation to Compass. As one said, "You eat an elephant one bite at a time." Compass happens to fly E175s, do you really think there would be any different sentiment negative or positive toward this idea if instead Compass operated CRJ900's or RJ85's even for that matter.

It seems to be the same people who taunt us (Compass pilots) gleefully with "NWA pilots are coming to take your seats!", "You're going be to flowed down on so hard!", "I'm just glad I'm not in your shoes!"... and so forth seem to the ones who are most bitter that this movement is taking place.

We knowingly took a risk coming to Compass, and god-forbid anything good come out of that for us first and you later. It's just sour grapes in the shopping cart of the "me me me society".

exactly spaulding. they would rather see the whole career suffer, than to see another pilot group benefit, out of fear they may be left behind.

 

[flyboyike]

Define "remote"

Yes, I think it does. Some look down the road and realize that by 2012 the DC9's are getting pulled down resulting in a ~1,400 pilot surplus. Guess what else happens in 2012?

Does Delta want to negotiate in Section 6 with furloughed pilots claiming they are hostages to the process? Either way, this DC9 replacement issue has to be addressed. It would be MUCH better to have a plan and deal with it sooner, than have it force the 2012 negotiations to be about scope as pilots are headed out the door.

There are ways to make this work and the parts of the puzzle are coming together. 72 jets at mainline, plus attrition would solve the surplus nicely and give those who want to focus on other issues in 2012 a clear shot to do so.

I'd love to believe that people at DALPA (or at any other pilot group) truly have that much foresight, but I fear history shows that not to be the case.

It seems to me the one thing we learned from our "wise" management teams is the truly alarming inability to look much past our own noses and just trying to get through today in one piece. What happens tomorrow, let alone in 2012 doesn't seem to bother much of anyone.