IBT 1108 Attempts to take NJASAP funds

[CastofThousands]

I meant Moore as the auditor... did you think he was there to go shopping at the mall?

There was a scam all right, at least from what I smell, but it got stopped when the accounts were transferred into the FO MEC's names. Now the question's about the misappropriated funds that you guys possibly used to form your new pilot association and for buying your pilots computers, flight loss pay, etc.

Moore as an auditor. That funny! He would make a better pilot, and that's scary.

You're juiced on BS ... It's going nowhere. Moore is a hack. He's the same hack that verbally/physically threatened one of 1108 best and most respected in-house female attorneys. It was 6'5" and 280 lbs vs 5'5" and 105 lbs (wet). If Moore is your standard and night in shining armor - you're more screwed (punn intended) than you know.

Moore an auditor - Ha ... we're on a roll now.

 

[NJAPLT]

I wouldn't trust Moore to tell me that the sky is blue......

Considering the reports of how out of control he was in the 1108 offices, and had to be thrown out after using language that would make a sailor blush, I would say you are backing the wrong horse in this fight.

But believe what you want. Hoffa and his cronies (Moore) got caught trying to rob the local funds, using bogus documents. If you choose not to believe it and get into the sewer with them, don't be surprised when you don't emerge spring fresh...

 

[TORCH67]

I have known steelersrule74 for years, and the only questionable thing I know of he has done is wearing Steeler crocs!!!!

 

[steelersrule74]

again Slave, your lack of knowledge about this and other subjects is embarrassing.

so your one member has a laptop paid for entirely by the local? I sure hope he's not using it at any time for personal use.

Our equipment reimbursement policy was in the form of a motion, presented and adopted by the Eboard and I believe (without having the minutes in front of me) approved with 'in favor' votes by FLOPS members of the board.

In a nutshell, certain volunteers who spend large amounts of time on union activities (stewards, committee chairs etc) could take advantage of a $700 credit towards purchase of a computer. any amount over that was out of their pocket. if someone left their position within 1 year - they had to pay back the $700. by sharing the cost we absolved volunteers of any liability for using such equipment for personal use on occasion.

but hey, it's much sexier to proclaim laptops as gifts. the more you type, the more foolish you become.

carry on.

 

[steelersrule74]

I have known steelersrule74 for years, and the only questionable thing I know of he has done is wearing Steeler crocs!!!!

that's just more evidence of my superior intellect and judgment.........:laugh:

 

[be-400xpdriver]

As my Dad says " You cant argue with some one that does not know what they are talking about"

It is obvious that both Freedumb and Options_whore have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Excellent mouth stuffing of words. I did not say he is a night in shining armor, I simply said he wasn't in the office last week to go shopping at the mall. He was there to ensure nothing inappropriate went down during the change of ownership of the Local, and from what it sounds like, it was wise of the GP to send him.

Spin it however you want, what you say behind a ficticious name here means diddly squat. You guys got caught doing something fishy and the IBT stopped it from happening. My guess is, at a minimum, you were going to have Net Jets stop payment on the $377k check and have them re-issue one to YOU so you wouldn't have to pay back the loan, but your eyes might have been on the 1.2mill, I don't know, don't care - neither happened, and it IS a loan you will repay, as per the agreement. I'm satisfied with that.

And steeler, you're right about the more you type the more foolish you look. I agree.

If it's anything anyone can see from reading this thread from start to finish, it is how the NJASAP leadership tried and failed to smear the FO MEC for doing what 1)they should have done, and 2)were told to do by National, and that baseless accusations were made by people of them for doing nothing but assuming ownership of 4 bank accounts that the NJASAP pilots had no business having access to, and that the Flight Options leadership has NOT received any donations from Net Jets pilots, and that NJASAP leadership pilots have no problems calling others names and spitting out lies and half-truths, and that you got beat at your own game, and ALL the funds that should be in the Local's hands remain in the Local's hands.

If I were a Net Jets pilot, I would want to know why that donated money is not delivered to the Flight Options MEC so they can disperse it appropriately. No such monies were ever delivered, and if you think they were, simply supply the name of the bank that those funds were deposited - we'd love to get those funds out to the pilots who are in the bread line.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

As my Dad say " You cant argue with some one that does not know what they are talking about"

It is obvious that Freedumb and Options_whore have no idead what they are talking about.

Wow. What awesome grammar, spelling and original name calling. You're classy. Thanks for contributing.

 

[steelersrule74]

lmao, you sir are hoffa and moore's 'wet dream' of the perfect teamster.

obedient, subservient, unquestioning of your leadership and willing to rely on rumor instead of facts.

carry on.

 

[CastofThousands]

Excellent mouth stuffing of words. I did not say he is a night in shining armor, I simply said he wasn't in the office last week to go shopping at the mall. He was there to ensure nothing inappropriate went down during the change of ownership of the Local, and from what it sounds like, it was wise of the GP to send him.

Spin it however you want, what you say behind a ficticious name here means diddly squat. You guys got caught doing something fishy and the IBT stopped it from happening. My guess is, at a minimum, you were going to have Net Jets stop payment on the $377k check and have them re-issue one to YOU so you wouldn't have to pay back the loan, but your eyes might have been on the 1.2mill, I don't know, don't care - neither happened, and it IS a loan you will repay, as per the agreement. I'm satisfied with that.

And steeler, you're right about the more you type the more foolish you look. I agree.

If it's anything anyone can see from reading this thread from start to finish, it is how the NJASAP leadership tried and failed to smear the FO MEC for doing what 1)they should have done, and 2)were told to do by National, and that baseless accusations were made by people of them for doing nothing but assuming ownership of 4 bank accounts that the NJASAP pilots had no business having access to, and that the Flight Options leadership has NOT received any donations from Net Jets pilots, and that NJASAP leadership pilots have no problems calling others names and spitting out lies and half-truths, and that you got beat at your own game, and ALL the funds that should be in the Local's hands remain in the Local's hands.

If I were a Net Jets pilot, I would want to know why that money is not delivered to the Flight Options MEC so they can disperse it appropriately. No such monies were ever delivered, and if you think they were, simply supply the name of the bank that those funds were deposited - we'd love to get those funds out to the pilots who are in the bread line.

No. Everyone understood why it is in the Flight Options pilots best interests to say with the IBT. Nobody takes issue with that reality. But, Strong Union NetJets 1108 and its leadership NEVER lowered itself to the IBT practices and/or standards.

That's what made SU successful - something every pilot could and should always be proud to associate with - as it should be. I hope that's where it remains.

The reason it's being aired out is so the pilots know - always trust the pilots. They know where they want to be, and they are looking for people who will help lead them there in a way they can always be proud to associate, regardless of the outcome.

All my best,

 

[be-400xpdriver]

Wow. You're classy. Thanks for contributing.

You are welcome.

 

[GerryG]

The NJASAP and retiring NJA 1108 leadership PLEDGE continued support to the Flight Options pilots; financial and whatever else may be needed in the Flight Options pilot efforts.

Wow, thats super nice of you guys, helpen us out like that. After all you couldn't have timed the separation any better, what with us being in the end-game of bargaining right now and all.

But you know, I'm curious, is that why our message board went down in the middle of the night last night, you folks being supportive, "to all Flight Options pilots" and all?

But I guess a birds gotta leave the nest sometime, so thanks so much for that last little nudge. We won't forget it.

 

[Freedom]

My Final Post on this Subject:

As Options SLAVE stated:

"....anyone can see from reading this thread from start to finish, it is how the NJASAP leadership tried and failed to smear the FO MEC...."

To this Smear attempt, I have one final question:

Why? What is it they were attempting to deflect attention from? I can't wait until the IBT Attorney's dig through all this crap.

I smell a Rat alright, and it ain't the Options MEC nor the IBT National.

People don't get as defensive as these NetJets Pilots have unless they have something to hide.

Fortunately, the vast majority of the IBT 1108 assets are now secure.

Nice Job Mat and AJ.

And as for the IBT 1108 Message Board, I have it directly from Mat that our former "Brothers" over at NetJets are responsible for that. We will get another one up and running if need be, but this was nothing other than a childish act by those who are thinking with their Egos rather than their Brains. Real classy Gentlemen.

Enough said.

Freedom is Not Free

 

[CA1900]

But you know, I'm curious, is that why our message board went down in the middle of the night last night, you folks being supportive, "to all Flight Options pilots" and all?

We don't, and didn't, run your message board. Better check with your guys on that one.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

lmao, you sir are hoffa and moore's 'wet dream' of the perfect teamster.

obedient, subservient, unquestioning of your leadership and willing to rely on rumor instead of facts.

carry on.

Hmmm. Believe that if you wish. I seem to remember a picture of Bill Olson wearing a Teamsters shirt and personally seeing him and other NJASAP leaders endorsing Hoffa during the election. Hundreds of Net Jets pilots did. Sounds pretty "do as I say not as I do" to me. You guys are hypocrits, but that's fine, it's a free country.

I'm glad the Local's money is where it's supposed to be and hope that there comes to light no illegal activities on anyone's part regarding the Local's money. If there was any, it WILL be fleshed out, and the appropriate law suits and/or criminal charges would of course take place. Personally, I hope there are NO such findings, suits, or charges. We all should be brothers and standing together in this industry and this petty bickering over a check and bank accounts is just that - petty, in the long run. Carry on.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

We don't, and didn't, run your message board. Better check with your guys on that one.

No, but there were some, with logged IP addresses and (logged) root login access I might add, that had access to the server it was on. By the way - if that is proved, that someone was vindictive and decided to hack/crash the message board, that WOULD be a felony offense.

 

[be-400xpdriver]

. After all you couldn't have timed the separation any better, what with us being in the end-game of bargaining right now and all.

Yes it is a great time for the NJA pilots to leave IBT 1108. The FLOPS pilots are free to do what ever is needed to finish the game. Might I suggest flying "The PLEDGE".

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Yes it is a great time for the NJA pilots to leave IBT 1108.

Spoken like a true friend. The timing couldn't have been worse for the Options pilots, and there was no urgency, only greed, that motivated it.

 

[CastofThousands]

Hmmm. Believe that if you wish. I seem to remember a picture of Bill Olson wearing a Teamsters shirt and personally seeing him and other NJASAP leaders endorsing Hoffa during the election. Hundreds of Net Jets pilots did. Sounds pretty "do as I say not as I do" to me. You guys are hypocrits, but that's fine, it's a free country.

I'm glad the Local's money is where it's supposed to be and hope that there comes to light no illegal activities on anyone's part regarding the Local's money. If there was any, it WILL be fleshed out, and the appropriate law suits and/or criminal charges would of course take place. Personally, I hope there are NO such findings, suits, or charges. We all should be brothers and standing together in this industry and this petty bickering over a check and bank accounts is just that - petty, in the long run. Carry on.

Hoffa and the Teamsters have failed the piloting profession in more ways than many will ever know. Hoffa was given an opportunity to turn things around before the NetJets pilot group left the Teamsters. He failed, again. But, he was given that opportunity.

If the profession elects to wait for Hoffa and the Teamsters, that's bad news for all. But, the NetJets pilots only gave them so much time to turn it around.

That was understood before Local 1108 was charted.

 

[TORCH67]

I'm sure you can trust the IBT attorneys to do the right and legal thing!!!!

Freedom and all, you miss the point because you are looking through blinders! The NJA pilots and leadership had nothing to hide or steal. Do you really think stealing funds wouldn't be uncovered and prosecuted??? Do you really think after everything that has taken place in the last 3 years they would risk thier jobs, and possible jail time over union funds? The NJA 1108 leadership has always been up front and transparent with the membership. Can you say the same for the actions from your current leadership over the last few days?

 

[CastofThousands]

Spoken like a true friend. The timing couldn't have been worse for the Options pilots, and there was no urgency, only greed, that motivated it.

The Flight Options pilot leadership fully supported the move by the NetJets pilot group for Flight Options autonomy and the money.

Done right the Flight Options pilot group will end up far better off - this was a bad way to start. The pilot group needs to assure it gets back on track.

It wasn't greed - it was in the pilots' best interests short and long term. Long term goals and short term planning. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

I'm sure you can trust the IBT attorneys to do the right and legal thing!!!!

Freedom and all, you miss the point because you are looking through blinders! The NJA pilots and leadership had nothing to hide or steal. Do you really think stealing funds wouldn't be uncovered and prosecuted??? Do you really think after everything that has taken place in the last 3 years they would risk thier jobs, and possible jail time over union funds? The NJA 1108 leadership has always been up front and transparent with the membership. Can you say the same for the actions from your current leadership over the last few days?

ABSOLUTELY I can. Their "actions" were legal and in the best interests of the local.As I stated several pages ago - The Flight Options MEC did exactly what your leadership would have done had the situation been reversed. And, it was directed by the GP anyway. Had the MEC refused the order, they would have found themselves in trusteeship anyway.

If what you say is true about the outgoing leadership, no one has anything to worry about over there. I know our guys aren't worried. So, if no one's worried on either side, then there obviously is NOTHING to worry about.

I am not worried about anything our MEC did. They aren't worried about any investigations anyone may want to make. I do know investigations WILL take place though, that's for sure, and I just hope that nothing illicit turns up.

 

[IDEtoNJA]

Can someone please answer one simple question:

Is Local 1108 of the IBT currently in trusteeship?

Thanks,
IDEtoNJA

 

[Options_SLAVE]

It wasn't greed - it was in the pilots' best interests short and long term. Long term goals and short term planning. Nothing more nothing less.

BS. It was all about the money. Like you said - LONG term goals, SHORT term planning. You could have waited. You knew what it would do to the FLOPS pilots, you did it anyway, even though there was no urgency and it would not have affected the long-term goals. And although the FLOPS leadership likes the autonomy and the freedom of the cash, they would have preferred the solidarity and for you to have waited until after we got the contract. Our contract will not be as strong as it would have been had you not left and you know it.

 

[steelersrule74]

Our contract will not be as strong as it would have been had you not left and you know it.

that attitude of expecting NJA pilots to secure your contract is what's been holding you back. I still don't know the answer to the trusteeship question BUT you have your own local, with an eboard of FLOPS pilots and (currently) over a million dollars. Now go to work and get your contract. It's up to you.

 

[CA1900]

And, it was directed by the GP anyway. Had the MEC refused the order, they would have found themselves in trusteeship anyway.

To beat the dead horse one more time, read your bylaws. Simply not bending to the wishes of the GP does not mean your local goes into trusteeship.

Our contract will not be as strong as it would have been had you not left and you know it.

If that's the case, it will because your leadership away control of your local--and your finances--to IBT.

 

[TORCH67]

ABSOLUTELY I can. Their "actions" were legal and in the best interests of the local.As I stated several pages ago - The Flight Options MEC did exactly what your leadership would have done had the situation been reversed. And, it was directed by the GP anyway. Had the MEC refused the order, they would have found themselves in trusteeship anyway.

If what you say is true about the outgoing leadership, no one has anything to worry about over there. I know our guys aren't worried. So, if no one's worried on either side, then there obviously is NOTHING to worry about.

I am not worried about anything our MEC did. They aren't worried about any investigations anyone may want to make. I do know investigations WILL take place though, that's for sure, and I just hope that nothing illicit turns up.

So, how do you know everything was legal? What reason did the Flt Ops MEC have to not trust the departing EBoard members to do the right thing? Have they betrayed the Flight Options pilots in the past? You know the answers! Open up your eyes and see it for what it is! NJA pilots don't need your money, and never will. Can you say the same for the 1.2 mil left behind?

 

[TORCH67]

So Options_slave, you feel hurt and abandoned and are taking it out and venting! I can understand that! :smash:

 

[CastofThousands]

BS. It was all about the money. Like you said - LONG term goals, SHORT term planning. You could have waited. You knew what it would do to the FLOPS pilots, you did it anyway, even though there was no urgency and it would not have affected the long-term goals. And although the FLOPS leadership likes the autonomy and the freedom of the cash, they would have preferred the solidarity and for you to have waited until after we got the contract. Our contract will not be as strong as it would have been had you not left and you know it.

I am concerned with what you aren't being told now.

To summarize your point: The Flight Options leadership NEVER stayed on budget. They were costing over $100,000 a month above Flight Options dues revenues for 2008. And, like the IBT the NetJets cashflow was the "solidarity."

Ironically, all this while a [former] Flight Options MEC Chairman and a Negotiating Committee member wan't paying dues. But, the Flight Options leadership group refused to address the issue until the NetJets Sec/Treas refused to "keep it all under the radar."

I'm having flashbacks of all the sweeping under the rug "solidarity."

The only way to get your contract is to lay down the heat and have solidarity within your pilot group. You can blame whoever you want - but that's the bottom line - it's up to your pilot group; not NetJets and not Hoffa. It's up to the Flight Options pilot group and nobody else.

Getting at least 50% of the Flight Options pilot group to pay dues per the Local 1108 Bylaws would be a great improvement in "solidarity." Otherwise, having the International fund the effort would be another great demonstration of solidarity as well. But, being chickensh!t and deflecting it the NetJets pilot group is truly sad and not very Strong Union.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

To beat the dead horse one more time, read your bylaws. Simply not bending to the wishes of the GP does not mean your local goes into trusteeship.



If that's the case, it will because your leadership away control of your local--and your finances--to IBT.

The by-laws do not override the constitution. I already explained several pages ago that the suspected inappropriate use of Local funds for NJASAP purposes was all they need to invoke emergency trusteeship. Read it yourself.