DoinTime
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Because our representatives tell us the truth about whats going on.
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How many got hired and quit at Pinnacolaba in the past week?
- Thread starter bri5150
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Because our representatives tell us the truth about whats going on.
DoinTime
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Oh yeah...that was that event where the Colgan and Mesaba MECs became the first pilot groups in the history of ALPA to ever solicit a request of no support for another pilot group. Classy stuff.
I'm sick and tired of hearing about Pinnacle's final standpoint submitted as a staple job. Why won't anyone talk about 9E's negotiating standpoints? Our union seriously needs to release them. The last email said something along the lines that they are thinking about releasing them. They should! Shut the trapholes of some of these people here who have no clue as to what 9E proposed in the negotiations phase. Let me give you a hint. With a straight-up DOH proposal, there is no room for negotiations. It's either straight DOH or it's not. Same thing with relative. It's either straight relative or it's not. NEITHER side budged from their viewpoint. Those initial viewpoints continued in negotiations, and then were submitted as final views. Where's the negotiations?!
9E was the one group that tried to submit different proposals, but they were either turned down or just outright ignored.
COLGAN PEOPLE:
Your union was initially submitted a proposal about taking 9E guys and 9L guys up to the date of Colgan purchase (Jan 2007), everyone on property that day and before, get relative. Then, after the purchase date in Jan 2007, everyone on property on both sides get DOH. This proposal WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN A STAPLE JOB FOR COLGAN! I say again, relative among 9E/9L until the purchase date of Jan 2007, then DOH afterwards. The Colgan committee chairman did not even acknowledge this viewpoint. From the get-go, it seems he wanted it to be in the arbitrators hands.
I better not hear any Colgan guy complain about Pinnacle's final method. Pinnacles final method came after the other two groups outright ignored them and were not willing to negotiate to some middle ground. Pinnacle even tried different variations for stat/cat method, but no one negotiated.
So if you want to be ticked off at Pinnacle's final viewpoints, blame the 9L and XJ committee for refusing to negotiate anything else other then their initial AND final viewpoints. They never budged.
9E was the one group that tried to submit different proposals, but they were either turned down or just outright ignored.
COLGAN PEOPLE:
Your union was initially submitted a proposal about taking 9E guys and 9L guys up to the date of Colgan purchase (Jan 2007), everyone on property that day and before, get relative. Then, after the purchase date in Jan 2007, everyone on property on both sides get DOH. This proposal WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN A STAPLE JOB FOR COLGAN! I say again, relative among 9E/9L until the purchase date of Jan 2007, then DOH afterwards. The Colgan committee chairman did not even acknowledge this viewpoint. From the get-go, it seems he wanted it to be in the arbitrators hands.
I better not hear any Colgan guy complain about Pinnacle's final method. Pinnacles final method came after the other two groups outright ignored them and were not willing to negotiate to some middle ground. Pinnacle even tried different variations for stat/cat method, but no one negotiated.
So if you want to be ticked off at Pinnacle's final viewpoints, blame the 9L and XJ committee for refusing to negotiate anything else other then their initial AND final viewpoints. They never budged.
It wasn't a question of support, but rather the timing of the event. Progress was being made in negotiations. Colgan and Mesaba were just following the advice of ALPA national and D-ALPA. Again, it could be said that the Pinnacle MEC didn't support everyone else, but you just want to keep throwing stones
I agree, it would be nice to hear all the facts. I too am tired of all the bickering and back biting. I want this SLI done and singular union representation. Cheers
What is the timeline on that? I think they should stay seperate until everyone is able to bid where they will legally be able to bid in the end. My point is that there was at least one 900 transferred to 9E, and I want to make sure we are protected from having aircraft being transferred and not being able to bid to them (if it is legal according to the SLI). Same thing with the Saabs we have left. If we were using our certificate, then I would want the same protection for Colgan pilots.
GRAAB HIRBOUBI
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I hope 9e does present all sides. I heard a presentation from our SLI guys about the all three proposals. If you truly believe 9e didn't try for a seniority grab then I don't know the real definition. Again I hope your committee shares the proposals.
But I also know that MOST of the 9e pilots are not being told the truth, so I refuse to start throwing mud. If I were in your positions I'd be mad at us too.
But I also know that MOST of the 9e pilots are not being told the truth, so I refuse to start throwing mud. If I were in your positions I'd be mad at us too.
DoinTime
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I'm not the one who brought the issue up. The stone was thrown by JAMIESTRAT. You seem to think that PCL pilots should just roll over while we get bombarded with slanderous rumors and outright lies.
jamiestrat
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I was just amused that a Pinnacle pilot was telling us to be patient when their MEC proposed a picket due to impatience and incompetence. I was curious to see what ALPA national had to say about the courageous 9E pilots standing up against the management rats. Oh that's right, we never heard anything about it because it was not supported by National, Delta, Colgan or Mesaba.
The fact is we are just all sick of the constant BS that stems from all things Pinnacle over the course of the past year. I am sure Bloch is sick of it also.
.
Have there been any updates today on whether or not Bloch has received the new 9E list? I have heard rumors about one of the 9E SLI committee members being on a trip or something. If that is indeed true that is odd but then they should have been able to review the mythical list last night. It is time to submit the list , folks. If I were a 9E pilot I would be calling my MEC and other elected reps to tell them that this is unacceptable. It is time to submit the list and see where the chips fall.
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Grinder10
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The list was submitted late last night.
I was refering to your response. The timing was the issue, not the fact that we didn't support you!
I agree. We need closure on this and let's move on.
xjhawk
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I have met a lot of good people at 9E and want to move on from this but it will be hard to forget that 9E tried a seniority grab, stalled, adjusted their DOH, and for months I have been hearing how they bought us so it should be a staple....yes I have heard that from more than two 9E pilots. I do not know what happened with the DOH but I hope you will understand that I do not believe a 9E guy posting that they "won" the decision from Bloch. I tend to believe our MEC guys had a good legal standing and your MEC was lost in the clouds on the issue. I also like to see you wonderful 9E guys screaming lies when I talk to a negotiator and Captain Rep and they tell me exactly what you are calling lies. I think if you were to do it, you all would have been right there drinking coolaid with Jim Jones. Oh and that picketing you did was about like drinking Jim Jones coolaid-self destructive.
If you do not know who Jim Jones was.....look it up
If you do not know who Jim Jones was.....look it up
I've heard a couple times that the 9e list provided last week had guys either pulled from the list, or had a note of "terminated" next to them if they were in the pool somewhere like Fedex or SWA. Mesaba's MEC is trying to protect your own guys by making sure they are still on the list. Just because you are in a pool somewhere doesn't mean you are off of the current airline's list. What would happen if they decided to not put them in a class?
Inconceivable
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Realistically, how would you know this?
i fly boxes
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Realistically, how would you know this?
i fly boxes
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Flyprdu
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edit: I'm done raging over you, bri5150. Your d*mn conspiracy theories, your accusations, all of it.
You're nothing to me.
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I am sure I am on ignore now, but just in case...
I am sorry you raged over what I have been hearing. I don't make this stuff up. One of my good friends talked with someone on the negotiating commitee. That's where I got the info. I know as much as everyone else on what has happened this past week, heck this past year...not much. Why is what I say a conspiracy theory, but the "Mesaba DOH coup" not one? Where there is smoke, there is fire. It may not be what I said, it may not be what flyer said, it may not be what doin' time said, but there seems to be a lot of talk about this list issue this week. Maybe we will find out, maybe not...
So, the 60 days are officially up, and now the XJ furloughees can be listed as active FOs at LGA on the XJ list. Is there a conspiracy theory out there yet that XJ could have intentionally done the dispute to delay the award until this moment? 
Historically speaking, furloughees usually end up at the bottom. Maybe XJ did this to ensure the 'furloughee' status was 'active.' But then again, that's just the conspiracy theory I've been hearing from a few across different groups. Theories, theories? Conspiracies, lies, deception? Conspiracy theory? Is Mel Gibson still available? By the time this is done, we can cast Mel and Julia Roberts as lead cast for the whole SLI story.
Historically speaking, furloughees usually end up at the bottom. Maybe XJ did this to ensure the 'furloughee' status was 'active.' But then again, that's just the conspiracy theory I've been hearing from a few across different groups. Theories, theories? Conspiracies, lies, deception? Conspiracy theory? Is Mel Gibson still available? By the time this is done, we can cast Mel and Julia Roberts as lead cast for the whole SLI story.
Notice how this thread just got silent. After tons of accusations against the 9E committee for having ulterior motives, playing unfair, manipulating things on purpose, and a bunch of other false accusations, the other side is now quiet on the change of status for MOU pilots who have now since just expired the 60 days yesterday. Magically, they are no longer considered furloughed on the XJ list? And all of them are considered active on the XJ list? Maybe someone from the XJ side can clarify it all up? Or try and justify what's going on? I knew this 60 day thing had something to do with what's going on. The 60 days are gone, and now, we have this new mess. I had already asked before what would become of these furloughee pilots once the 60 days were up, and now I guess my hunch was realized.
The thread went silent because I think people are getting tired (I know I am). To answer your question: Yes, the Mesaba MEC is in cahoots (sp?) with Mr. Bloch and had him delay his decision until the 20th in which he then was told to ask for new lists. Then when Pinnacle gave their list, the Mesaba MEC pointed to a perfectly good list and disputed it. After that, the Mesaba MEC then told Mr. Bloch to look over what he had for the weekend and to ask for new lists on Monday. Then they called Pinnacle crew scheduling and had your SLI guy put on a trip so they couldn't get another list to Mr. Bloch for a few more days, and Voila!! We are past the magical 60 day time frame so that they can put all of them on our list as not furloughed (even though they were all recalled 60 days ago and on our list anyway) and then told Mr. Bloch not to use the famous "snapshot" we are all talking about. Who keeps talking about conspiracy theories? Maybe that's why the thread went silent.
They were on your list as furloughees on the certified list last year, the list given on May 23, but now, but magically, the newest list doesn't have them listed as furloughees? Ironic to see them change a few data points of their own when they dispute others changing a data point (which was already agreed upon).
Though, I agree with you. All this is just sickening now. The unity I thought would exist just isn't there. All 3 groups have fought aggressively for their own-selves, but I think that came at a high cost. Hopefully, the result will be out soon, and the majority will be happy.
Comic relief.
I think both "sides" feel like this about the other. I can't take credit. Someone on another board found this gem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Rdf0n_Lsg&feature=player_embedded
p.s. I suck at embedding video.
I think both "sides" feel like this about the other. I can't take credit. Someone on another board found this gem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Rdf0n_Lsg&feature=player_embedded
p.s. I suck at embedding video.
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