good things at Avantair

[gunfyter]

From what I hear in short order we will be paid more than the NetJet pilots who fly Hawker 400's and thats before union dues.

I'll keep it up... and you keep up the nonsense you have been posting like the example above.

If management is so benevolent... Why are you not already paid more than NJ? The truth is , IF you are paid more its only an attempt to avoid a union.

UNION DUES; IT DOESN'T COST -- IT PAYS

You wil have a hard time finding a NJ pilot who in 2005, did not collect more in class action grievances payments than the total of all union Dues he has paid since he stepped on the property.

 

[NJA bound]

Here’s another one Piag180 never answered.

how long does it take to upgrade to left seat? get used to that right seat you are going to be there for a long, long time. All the while we will be earning more flying left seat. Oh wait can you set the localizer frequency for me

That made a whole lot of sense, what is it your Capts. are pulling in right now, 40K last I heard. I am doing better than that right now. Even if it takes 6 years to upgrade, I'll be content making 60K plus flying from the right seat 15 days a month, don't know how you all single pilot plane jockeys do it at Avantair, but the copilots do fly the plane at NetJets.
And once I do get in the left seat my salary will double again, what is it you're making over there again? LOL

 

[Fozzy]

I love promises from management. They are so good at keeping their word.
Piaggio, you keep being a good little worker bee. I am sure your bank will take your boss's word as payment for your kids college or mortgage.


If it is not in writing................

 

[gunfyter]

Promises like candy

There are many people who balk at the fight. They hide and place their confidence in the hands of employers. Management preys on this weakness by distributing promises like candy during organizing drives and quickly reneging if the workers lose the election. But management must be held accountable. As Teamsters we stand up and tackle the challenges that imperil working families.

--James P Hoffa--
​

 

[netjetwife]

P180, I can't speak for other locals (nor should you) but I can tell you that every union rep /pilot in 1108 also flies the line and receives NO extra money for the VOLUNTEER work they do for their fellow pilots and their families. The leadership may have temporary assignments (like contract negotiations/implementation) but those meetings are done in conjunction with the company. On his days off, my husband spends a lot of hours at his desk, but the many NJ pilots who benefit from his efforts would never call it hiding/riding. Your ignorance is showing!

 

[ce750drvr]

P180, I can't speak for other locals (nor should you) but I can tell you that every union rep /pilot in 1108 also flies the line and receives NO extra money for the VOLUNTEER work they do for their fellow pilots and their families. The leadership may have temporary assignments (like contract negotiations/implementation) but those meetings are done in conjunction with the company. On his days off, my husband spends a lot of hours at his desk, but the many NJ pilots who benefit from his efforts would never call it hiding/riding. Your ignorance is showing!

Wifey,

Just forget it. PIG is never gonna get it through his skull. He sounds like FG. Our answers are not what he wants to hear so he continues his scavanger hunt. He is hell bent on believing what he thinks is the truth about unions. Ignorance is bliss, he just won't educate himself.

 

[ce750drvr]

Cedric. What question on page three? Is this some more misinformation and name calling? I am shocked a teamster rep would never do such a thing. Here are some facts the highly over paid union reps at locals who earn up wards of $600,000 all started as you guessed it union stewards. It is the ground floor of the union.

From what I hear in short order we will be paid more than the Net Jet pilots who fly Hawker 400's and thats before union dues. That would be pretty funny after all when everyone elses salary goes up you are stuck with your collective bargaining agreement with no way to change it. Who knows maybe our salaries will increase again in the future and we will make even more. Word is management has asked for the pilots help to make the schedule a 7 and 7. Good Things at Avant air. Interesting we are trying to work together not be torn apart. Sometimes it does work.

Dude,
You are really starting to show your lack of experience here. So, here we go again..

First, what have I said that is mis-information?

Second, I'm not your union rep, and I'm on a public forum, so what does it matter? And again, I will ask, what have I said that is mis-information?

Third, your "fact" about top level union heads make xxx,xxx. Who cares. My answer to your question was what OUR local 1108 reps make. Again, they make their YOS wages. You continue to imply that I am misrepresenting OUR local 1108 reps salaries. Who cares if top union officials started out as stewards. Do you think all CEO's of fortune 500 companies just walked into that job? NO. You always start off at the bottom somewhere in life.

Fourth, Sure, we will most likely be stuck with our pay for five years. You and all of the others may get your raise, and I hope you do. But guess what? Do you think you will get continuous raises every year for five years? NO. Our contract will be negotiated again in five years, we will get OUR raise and then you will get yours ( stay with me here). When? In five years. Huh? Is that coincidence? Nope. You got it because SOMEONE raised the bar again. Doesn't necessarily have to be us. Could be anybody. This is called wage competition and has been around long before you and I have been in this world.

Fifth, you keep believing what you want. Reality is harsh. Be careful because it will bite you in the azz.

Sixth, here are the questions from page three. I was asking you to be more clear on what you were wanting to know.

-what money? Our new contract? Don't get your question.
-there isn't any propaganda here. I answered your friggin question. How is that propaganda?


You have a serious attitude problem. You asked, I answered. The answers weren't good enough for you, so you acted like a six year old with your smart azz comments. Grow up.

 

[piaggiop180]

Ok for the learning impaired the Teamsters made a huge deal out of the high level salaries at NetJets yet it makes me wonder why you don't care about the massive salaries that union officials are receiving from the pilots at NJ. Why is it that if anyone has a different opinion he is a "moron" or "doesn't know what he is talking about". Why is it that people in Unions are never happy? Don't try to say you are happy because your posts say otherwise. You got your contract that you are so happy with yet all you people do is cry like a bunch of sick babies.

The money I was referring to was what do the heads of the teamsters make. You never answered that question so I did my own research and found out. It was $600,000 or more. That to me seems like an awful lot of money could they not make a normal salary and reduce dues? If they were so rightous wouldn't they do this? Lastly, why do you never use the word teamsters. YOU ARE TEAMSTERS LIKE IT OR NOT.

 

[piaggiop180]

gunfyter the reason we haven't been paid more is because the company is three years old and just became profitable. The best part is you get to fly a Piaggio. Flew a cj for three years and would never go back. This plane kick is ars

 

[hyper]

Ok for the learning impaired the Teamsters made a huge deal out of the high level salaries at NetJets yet it makes me wonder why you don't care about the massive salaries that union officials are receiving from the pilots at NJ. Why is it that if anyone has a different opinion he is a "moron" or "doesn't know what he is talking about". Why is it that people in Unions are never happy? Don't try to say you are happy because your posts say otherwise. You got your contract that you are so happy with yet all you people do is cry like a bunch of sick babies.

The money I was referring to was what do the heads of the teamsters make. You never answered that question so I did my own research and found out. It was $600,000 or more. That to me seems like an awful lot of money could they not make a normal salary and reduce dues? If they were so rightous wouldn't they do this? Lastly, why do you never use the word teamsters. YOU ARE TEAMSTERS LIKE IT OR NOT.

Who cares? As long as you're getting paid a fair wage for you and your family, why the heii would you possibly care what they make. If I'm making my fair wage due to their efforts and collective power, I could care less if they're millionares. If you can do it on your own, do it.....then complain about what they make. Why don't you do some digging and find out what your corporate clans make, while you're on par with a retail manager.

avantair has never been profitable (not unusual, most aren't). Maybe you selected a wrong choice of words, or maybe your info is wrong.

I'd rather fly anything than a cj.......

 

[Gpilot800]

The money I was referring to was what do the heads of the teamsters make. You never answered that question so I did my own research and found out. It was $600,000 or more. That to me seems like an awful lot of money could they not make a normal salary and reduce dues? If they were so rightous wouldn't they do this? Lastly, why do you never use the word teamsters. YOU ARE TEAMSTERS LIKE IT OR NOT.

Dude...how many times does it have to be said? Nobody in LOCAL 1108 is making money on this. We are all volunteers. You really are showing your lack of intelligence. As for higher ups in IBT? It's a small percentage of our monthly dues (mine was $57.41 last month) that go to the people running all of Teamsters. I could care less if one of those dozen or so are making 600g or double that. It's the local that counts. Most of us made at least a few grand in grievances won last year. Would you trade the 8000$+ I received in grievance settlements for less than 700$ per yr in dues???
...Yeah, I guess you probably would.

WE HAVE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION! Go educate yourself!

 

[Fozzy]

pig,
What is your point? 25% goes to national. End of story. We get many resources for that 25%. In my humble opinion, it is well worth my 25% of the dues. Now if your only argurment is "he makes a lot of money!!!!!". Well, you may need to go and regroup. Maybe you should scream about your CEO making MILLIONS, while he runs the company into the ground. Or while he spits on your labor group.

Enough with the FUD.

 

[Gpilot800]

One off topic question for Piaggiop180:

I notice 8000 total time, military and civilian.

What kind of jets have you flown? What type ratings do you have?

Where did you accumulate the majority of your time? In what aircraft?

I'm very interested as it may paint a better picture for us.

Thank you in advance.

 

[gunfyter]

gunfyter the reason we haven't been paid more is because the company is three years old and just became profitable. The best part is you get to fly a Piaggio. Flew a cj for three years and would never go back. This plane kick is ars

Sounds great. You have nothing to worry about then.

 

[angryoneincher]

gunfyter the reason we haven't been paid more is because the company is three years old and just became profitable. The best part is you get to fly a Piaggio. Flew a cj for three years and would never go back. This plane kick is ars

Pig, Avantair is not profitable. I know they're losing money on operations every day. The only they keep going is by selling new airplanes. It's a house of cards. When they stop buying Piaggios they would have to restructure the management fees or go under.

This is all beside the point. Like Hyper said, so what if the company is not profitable? The part that makes you stupid is the fact that you don't care that up till now you could make more at Burgur King that you could being away from your family for 8 days. And if they were being so fair and nice why did they raise the pay as soon as a union was looming? Oh, I forgot , they were working on it for the last month. When's the last time anybody from the company held a conference call to say " Hey guys, what's the word on the street and how can things be improved?" Except now, when somebody rocks the boat. And how many emails have we gotten with the CEO talking about his " extended family." Would somebody kick his family out of their house for a disagreement? No family man I know. I'm not saying a company should be run like a family, but we didnt start that type of talk. One disagreement and people get kicked out with no explanation. That should be indication enough of how people view the pilot group.

 

[angryoneincher]

Dude,
You are really starting to show your lack of experience here. So, here we go again..

First, what have I said that is mis-information?

Second, I'm not your union rep, and I'm on a public forum, so what does it matter? And again, I will ask, what have I said that is mis-information?

Third, your "fact" about top level union heads make xxx,xxx. Who cares. My answer to your question was what OUR local 1108 reps make. Again, they make their YOS wages. You continue to imply that I am misrepresenting OUR local 1108 reps salaries. Who cares if top union officials started out as stewards. Do you think all CEO's of fortune 500 companies just walked into that job? NO. You always start off at the bottom somewhere in life.

Fourth, Sure, we will most likely be stuck with our pay for five years. You and all of the others may get your raise, and I hope you do. But guess what? Do you think you will continuous raises every year for five years? NO. Our contract will be negotiated again in five years, we will get OUR raise and then you will get yours ( stay with me here). When? In five years. Huh? Is that coincidence? Nope. You got it because SOMEONE raised the bar again. Doesn't necessarily have to be us. Could be anybody. This is called wage competition and has been around long before you and I have been in this world.

Fifth, you keep believing what you want. Reality is harsh. Be careful because it will bite you in the azz.

Sixth, here are the questions from page three. I was asking you to be more clear on what you were wanting to know.

-what money? Our new contract? Don't get your question.
-there isn't any propaganda here. I answered your friggin question. How is that propaganda?


You have a serious attitude problem. You asked, I answered. The answers weren't good enough for you, so you acted like a six year old with your smart azz comments. Grow up.

ce750drvr, you the man.

 

[ce750drvr]

Ok for the learning impaired the Teamsters made a huge deal out of the high level salaries at NetJets yet it makes me wonder why you don't care about the massive salaries that union officials are receiving from the pilots at NJ. Why is it that if anyone has a different opinion he is a "moron" or "doesn't know what he is talking about". Why is it that people in Unions are never happy? Don't try to say you are happy because your posts say otherwise. You got your contract that you are so happy with yet all you people do is cry like a bunch of sick babies.

The money I was referring to was what do the heads of the teamsters make. You never answered that question so I did my own research and found out. It was $600,000 or more. That to me seems like an awful lot of money could they not make a normal salary and reduce dues? If they were so rightous wouldn't they do this? Lastly, why do you never use the word teamsters. YOU ARE TEAMSTERS LIKE IT OR NOT.

This is getting regoddammdiculous. Yes you are entitled to an opinion. You are not, however, educating yourself as to what is entailed in a union composition. You demand to know what a union CEO (or equivalent) makes per year. I don't know. You say 600.000. Ok, good for him. We told you what our local makes. Wasn't good enough for you.

I am very happy where I am. During negotiations I was not. You are the one who seems to not be happy. We got ours. Where is yours? We like unions, you don't. That is our opinion. All I have done is state fact here. How is that "crying like a sick baby"? Have you read your own post? Read 'em again, you will see who sounds like a sick baby.

Like I said, grow up.

 

[country]

Taste great.....Less Filling.....Taste Great....Less Filling... Taste great.....Less Filling.....Taste Great....Less Filling...
Taste great.....Less Filling.....Taste Great....Less Filling... Taste great.....Less Filling.....Taste Great....Less Filling...
Taste great.....Less Filling.....Taste Great....Less Filling... Taste great.....Less Filling.....Taste Great....Less Filling...
Taste great.....Less Filling.....Taste Great....Less Filling... Taste great.....Less Filling.....Taste Great....Less Filling...
Taste great.....Less Filling.....Taste Great....Less Filling... Taste great.....Less Filling.....Taste Great....Less Filling...
Taste great.....Less Filling.....Taste Great....Less Filling... Taste great.....Less Filling.....Taste Great....Less Filling...
Taste great.....Less Filling.....Taste Great....Less Filling... Taste great.....Less Filling.....Taste Great....Less Filling...
Taste great.....Less Filling.....Taste Great....Less Filling... Taste great.....Less Filling.....Taste Great....Less Filling...

I did not realize that the only people on these boards were flight sim pros, union reps and management. Dang I feel cheated.......just to think I thought I was reading posts made by real live professionals pilots. My world has been crushed.... I think I'll go find me a management/union board and start posting on it.

By the way ...how is the Piaggio holding up in the frac world regarding reliability, maint,parts etc.

 

[NJA bound]

Here’s another one from page 3 that Piag180 never answered.

how long does it take to upgrade to left seat? get used to that right seat you are going to be there for a long, long time. All the while we will be earning more flying left seat. Oh wait can you set the localizer frequency for me

That made a whole lot of sense, what is it your Capts. are pulling in right now, 40K last I heard. I am doing better than that right now. Even if it takes 6 years to upgrade, I'll be content making 60K plus flying from the right seat 15 days a month, don't know how you all single pilot plane jockeys do it at Avantair, but the copilots do fly the plane at NetJets.
And once I do get in the left seat my salary will double again, what is it you're making over there again? LOL

 

[Noodles]

By the way ...how is the Piaggio holding up in the frac world regarding reliability, maint,parts etc.

The honest answer would be, not very well. The official answer would, works great, lasts a long time, will fly 1500 miles with 7 pax.

All the parts come from Italy, and they don't seem to make many spare parts. The MEL is so small as to be practically useless. The company has so oversold the plane, that it's costing them a boatload of money in farming out charters to other places.

But hey, we have a crack management team that's going to give us all raises, sing Kumbayah with us, and lead us blindly on our merry way.

 

[piaggiop180]

country you are right This post was started to say good things about a good fractional company to work for. We asked specifically that the NJ pilots stick to their own threads, they didn't and I got caught up in the madness.

Regarding your question the Piaggio is like any other airplane it does break now and then. On my return today I noticed there were fewer aircraft in the hanger in FL for maintainence then I had seen in the past and was told ths was due to parts issues being resolved. The biggest issue to date has been parts availability it appears this is being resolved. Having come out of a citation before flying the piaggio it appears to be more reliable. The aircraft are all pretty new. The company gets at least one new one a month.

If you interested in a job they are hiring 6 new pilots a month. You can typically upgrade within a year.

Back to your point about this board you are right the person who started it never intended it to turn into what it has. I will leave it at that

 

[piaggiop180]

Noodles I totally disagree with your statements about the aircraft. I have never been asked to fly 7 people 1500 nm. I agree about the MEL and I know that the DOO has been working with the FAA to clear that issue up.
By the way Noodles we all know who you are and you don't work here anymore.

 

[netjetwife]

AOI, there are some family ideals that can transfer over well--to a company or a union. It is not uncommon for some of the NJ pilots/spouses to refer to their group as an extended family. There is a trust factor. Members treat each other with respect and work as a team for the good of all. They cheer each other on and offer help where needed. Each separate frac group could have something like that. It's all just a matter of camaraderie and attitude. Pilots that share common goals, choosing to make a stand together.

 

[Turbinehead]

Oh Netjetwife Netjetwife Netjetwife

AOI, there are some family ideals that can transfer over well--to a company or a union. It is not uncommon for some of the NJ pilots/spouses to refer to their group as an extended family. There is a trust factor. Members treat each other with respect and work as a team for the good of all. They cheer each other on and offer help where needed. Each separate frac group could have something like that. It's all just a matter of camaraderie and attitude. Pilots that share common goals, choosing to make a stand together.

I am taking time off from HAJ to respond to this ridiculousness.

YOU DONT NEED A UNION to be a close family of co-workers. This is all part of the Jihad against non-union fractional companies.

Netjetwife, PLEASE! Open your eyes. The union worked for Netjets. IT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT at ALL COMPANIES. Why are you selling this idea like a used car salesperson? Hard sell tactics nonetheless.

Did you work for Amway at some point in your life?

 

[piaggiop180]

Turbinhead thats all I was trying to say. Instead I fell into the trap of arguing with these used car salespeople. They feel like to justify their actions every single pilot has to be a teamster. Watch out flight instructors are next

 

[Noodles]

By the way Noodles we all know who you are and you don't work here anymore.

I don't? That's news to me....

 

[netjetwife]

AOI, there are some family ideals that can transfer over well--to a company or a union. It is not uncommon for some of the NJ pilots/spouses to refer to their group as an extended family. There is a trust factor. Members treat each other with respect and work as a team for the good of all. They cheer each other on and offer help where needed. Each separate frac group could have something like that. It's all just a matter of camaraderie and attitude. Pilots that share common goals, choosing to make a stand together.

Excuse me! Perhaps you should take the time to READ my post before you start twisting my post. Talk about ridiculous! Your point was already included in my post. I just expanded the idea to include my experience as a spouse in the NJ group/1108. Sharing my positive experience doesn't mean that all others are negative, by comparison. I leave that determination to the frac pilots at each company.

 

[angryoneincher]

AOI, there are some family ideals that can transfer over well--to a company or a union. It is not uncommon for some of the NJ pilots/spouses to refer to their group as an extended family. There is a trust factor. Members treat each other with respect and work as a team for the good of all. They cheer each other on and offer help where needed. Each separate frac group could have something like that. It's all just a matter of camaraderie and attitude. Pilots that share common goals, choosing to make a stand together.

I agree there can be a trust factor and a family atmosphere among a company or a union. That just isnt the case at Avantair even tho the CEO likes to spout that stuff. Everything he does contradicts that. That was my point.

 

[XPGuy]

Actually, the purpose of this "board" is fractional aviation - discussion of fractional aviation and interviews... sounds pretty on-topic to me.


It's real simple, guys. If the pilots at Flight Options, FlexJet, and AVantair have at least 35% of their pilots send in a card, they earn the right to have a vote for the pilot group. If 50% + 1 pilot casts a vote for a Union, then majority has spoken. If not, then the majority has spoken.

Net Jets' contract is industry-leading. Citation Shares' and Flex Jets' raises are in response to that contract, and good for those guys!

Certainly you cannot deny that although life isn't perfect at Net Jets, it certainly is better quality of life than any other fractional. THAT is what I hope we can gain at Flight Options. Stop groaning about people being "pro-union".... every pro-union pilot is pro-company... it is management's fault they are pro union.

 

[cornfed]

Here is the problem. PIG is a member of managment if it isnt completely obvious. It is a hopeless battle.

I agree FO pay, overtime, and perdiem has been increased. I am still waiting on the Captain pay increase.

Here are the other issues that have not been adressed.

a 7 and 7 schedule

a vacation schedule

a sick policy

a crew meal policy

overall better treatment to the pilots.

The pay in my opinion is a very small part of what we are looking for.