Good job ASA alpa....

[ohplease!]

I agree...PBS is a good start. Dual-qual should be next.

perhaps the efficiencies of PBS will allow for enough "wiggle room" for Brad & co. to position us for more flying in the nearer future....

and just maybe, dual-qual could open a new base or two and we can get our furloughed pilots back in a seat.

I'd trade dual-qual for an agreement to get Skywest out of our front yard and get our guys back to work...there would need to be tight language to get and keep this before I signed off on it though.

One list might make even more sense....but, I'll take baby steps....just keep moving forward and keep a good eye on our "backside"

 

[maxcackel]

Then I suggest you worry about getting 60% of capt. pay for FOs and let ASA pilots worry about the PBS TA....In other words we don't really care what you think....Go lecture the Pinnacle pilots about their TA that undercuts all of us....

Nice attack Joe, way to answer his valid question with "nana nana boo boo, I know you are but what am I" come back. Awesome.

 

[JoeMerchant]

perhaps the efficiencies of PBS will allow for enough "wiggle room" for Brad & co. to position us for more flying in the nearer future....

and just maybe, dual-qual could open a new base or two and we can get our furloughed pilots back in a seat.

I'd trade dual-qual for an agreement to get Skywest out of our front yard and get our guys back to work...there would need to be tight language to get and keep this before I signed off on it though.

One list might make even more sense....but, I'll take baby steps....just keep moving forward and keep a good eye on our "backside"

Well said.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Nice attack Joe, way to answer his valid question with "nana nana boo boo, I know you are but what am I" come back. Awesome.

I'm just tired of pilots from other regionals lecturing us about "holding the line" and "you can do better"...The whole point of this is to reduce our costs so we can compete with the other regionals who have lower costs than us...It defeats the whole purpose of going to PBS if you demand too much for it..If you are going to do that, then forget PBS altogether...

He wants us to raise our costs...This doesn't affect him....

It's not that I am "better" than him....I just don't care what he thinks...It's not his decision...

 

[maxcackel]

I ask two questions, both have factual answers and you get defensive. Facts are good and will help people make an educated decision. What's the problem?

Fact is I'm interested in all regional contracts as we all work off of each others progress.

Or are these facts top secret?

Sorry about that Baronman. I know a lot of our current contract was mirrored off of your contract so thanks for that. Facts seem to be in short supply, but plenty of "I believe, I hope, we should get, I talked to someone in the know and they said management said we will get more flying". I have not seen or heard of any actual numbers on cost savings for the company.

 

[ohplease!]

Again, what are you getting in return for instituting PBS?

let me see if I can answer that:

looks like it'll give us better control over our schedule in several ways.
- twice daily opentime/swap with instantanious approval/denial based strictly on legality and seniority (far better than what we have now IMO)
-slightly higher vacation day credit
-slightly higher min day credit
-ground school "evening shift" during week only...I like this one.
-final schedules out sooner (20th rather that 27th) for planing my life
-I will actually be able to plan something on the first 3 days of the month (no more integration)


among others things.....again, this is all sounding pretty good. There are several things (upgrades IMO) that I had not and probably would not have thought to ask for.

all I can say right now is Kuddos to the alpa guys. NOW give me all the details and lets tighten up whats a little loose (if anything).

 

[Baronman]

let me see if I can answer that:

looks like it'll give us better control over our schedule in several ways.
- twice daily opentime/swap with instantanious approval/denial based strictly on legality and seniority (far better than what we have now IMO)
-slightly higher vacation day credit
-slightly higher min day credit
-ground school "evening shift" during week only...I like this one.
-final schedules out sooner (20th rather that 27th) for planing my life
-I will actually be able to plan something on the first 3 days of the month (no more integration)

(if anything).

Thanks for some solid info.

JoeMerchant....I know your type. Say no more. Best of luck.

 

[SiuDude]

-final schedules out sooner (20th rather that 27th) for planing my life
-I will actually be able to plan something on the first 3 days of the month (no more integration)

A little fact-check here. We currently get our final schedules on the 24th (not the 27th) and we have a pretty good idea of what we're going to be doing on the 14th/15th. With PBS, since there are no more "revised" schedules, the first look you get at the next month's schedule will be the 20th, almost a week later.

 

[Smacktard]

No thanks on dual qual. Thats a sizeable paycut for 1/3 of the pilot group. Vacation, training, min day credit etc all paid at lower rate.

 

[ohplease!]

A little fact-check here. We currently get our final schedules on the 24th (not the 27th) and we have a pretty good idea of what we're going to be doing on the 14th/15th. With PBS, since there are no more "revised" schedules, the first look you get at the next month's schedule will be the 20th, almost a week later.

not entirely true. True, a general idea on the 14th but no idea if initial open time swap/drops are approved or if you've been integrated until the 27th. Semantics.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Sorry about that Baronman. I know a lot of our current contract was mirrored off of your contract so thanks for that.

The XJT contract did not achieve 60% capt. pay for FOs....dirty little secret that they like to leave out...

 

[JoeMerchant]

JoeMerchant....I know your type. Say no more. Best of luck.

What type is that?

 

[mightyM]

I'm not going to see what in the regionals?

Stability

 

[buscap]

I'm not a big fan of living in the ATL. My kids are being subjected to "the black way of life". I'm content with ASA, I don't want to commute. I will commute before my little girl comes home and says "hey daddy meet my new boy friend Tirone". If we could secure a new base outside of ATL I would move. It would have to be established for a few years before I would move. DFW was great. SLC and LAX would have been an improvement. I need to see some stability before I would pack up and move my family.

I may get banned for this, but this guy is a ******************************-bag!!!

 

[Crash Pad]

Did I miss something. PBS is more efficient. So is dual qualification. Doesn't that mean more furloughs and downgrades? I guess this makes our bids on future flying lower but my question is... what future flying? The 50 is a dead market and the 70 is maxed out on the Delta side.

We lose 20 more RJ's... we are looking at another 100 downgrades. I guess we can hope the no furlough clause holds up (maybe, maybe not). Add PBS to the mix we could be looking at 15% more efficient... That to me means 15% more downgrades. Most junior captain is 5 years. Want to see that go to 8 or 10? Any of you 10+ year guys even know how reserve works? Might have a little shock and awe.

The good news is we get to vote on this. I have trouble voting to dump so many jobs and pay cuts.

 

[outtahere]

Some of you guys are unbelieveable! Hey let's give it all away and hope Brad takes care of us! Tell ya what, what really makes us so expensive is all of you super senior guys that seem to want to sell out. So, if you really want to make ASA competitive, why don't all of yall quit, then we won't have to sell the farm. Oh, and by the way, I posted a thread on here last month telling all of you that Skywest would start flying 200's in atl, and we would shrink more. Funny how most of you shouted me down then, but now you all can finally see the forest for the trees. We will shrink further, and once we are small enough to manage, we will be "merged" with the Skywest pilots. It won't be fair and equitalble because Skywest wants the union gone. They will do everything possible to keep the Skywest pilots happy so when the union vote comes, their 3000 pilots will out vote our 1000. It's coming, like it or not. We will all be assimilated into the Morman culture. Atleast Joe can get another wife, because the first one.......Damn!

 

[Klr2land]

Here's a prediction... ASA will be sold back to Delta. ASA will NEVER be merged with Skywest. Mark my words.

 

[maxcackel]

At least some of us get it. ASA is not bidding on any flying, Skywest INC is. So even if Skywest wins some mesa flying do you people think Jerry will go "we need to give it to ASA because I need to take care of those guys". Or will he say "great! more United flying for our Skywest boys, lets pull those ATL planes back and max out the lines over here. Plan on pulling some of those 20 airframes from ASA per the contract over here also. And Brad nice job on PBS, but downgrade about 100 captains to lower you cost even more. And hey Brad what should we buy with our bonus checks from this?"
10 year captian "how do I bid for reserve" 8 year captian "How much fuel would you like sir? I'll be back after the walkaround" 5 year FO "Cool I don't have to upgrade for 5 more years" Will it happen either way, possibly but easier to swallow if not self inflicted and made easier to do with pbs.

 

[sXeflyer]

I agree with Socrates1. Its not racist if it is an opinion based on facts and logic. Go join Jimmy Carter in calling out racism on the SC rep.
I left ATL for the same reasons, plus vehicle windows are getting expensive. 3 times in 1 year.

 

[USCtrojan]

Some of you guys are unbelieveable! Hey let's give it all away and hope Brad takes care of us! Tell ya what, what really makes us so expensive is all of you super senior guys that seem to want to sell out. So, if you really want to make ASA competitive, why don't all of yall quit, then we won't have to sell the farm. Oh, and by the way, I posted a thread on here last month telling all of you that Skywest would start flying 200's in atl, and we would shrink more. Funny how most of you shouted me down then, but now you all can finally see the forest for the trees. We will shrink further, and once we are small enough to manage, we will be "merged" with the Skywest pilots. It won't be fair and equitalble because Skywest wants the union gone. They will do everything possible to keep the Skywest pilots happy so when the union vote comes, their 3000 pilots will out vote our 1000. It's coming, like it or not. We will all be assimilated into the Morman culture. Atleast Joe can get another wife, because the first one.......Damn!

You're a blubbering idiot. I'm embarrassed you're on my seniority list. Don't go away mad, just go the F*%$ away please. Thank you.

Trojan

 

[Tarzan]

At least some of us get it. ASA is not bidding on any flying, Skywest INC is. So even if Skywest wins some mesa flying do you people think Jerry will go "we need to give it to ASA because I need to take care of those guys". Or will he say "great! more United flying for our Skywest boys, lets pull those ATL planes back and max out the lines over here. Plan on pulling some of those 20 airframes from ASA per the contract over here also. And Brad nice job on PBS, but downgrade about 100 captains to lower you cost even more. And hey Brad what should we buy with our bonus checks from this?"
10 year captian "how do I bid for reserve" 8 year captian "How much fuel would you like sir? I'll be back after the walkaround" 5 year FO "Cool I don't have to upgrade for 5 more years" Will it happen either way, possibly but easier to swallow if not self inflicted and made easier to do with pbs.

It must miserable looking at life through that prism all the time. What I expect Jerry Atkins to is to make money. You don't make money by cutting off your own nose to spite your face. SkyWest Inc will not do it either unless forced into a corner. ASA makes money even in this environment. The idea for it make even more and you never shrink your way to profits.

However, I hope for the best but prepare for the worst. I don't see what your ideas coming to fruition but you never know. Until then, you'll save yourself quite a bit of grief if you lose that mindset. It is nothing more than poison to those you deal with you on a day to day basis. A term that covers it is gravedigger. You can end right there with no way to climb out or worse, you push in someone else. Either way, nothing good comes from it.

Regards :beer:

 

[USCtrojan]

It must miserable looking at life through that prism all the time. What I expect Jerry Atkins to is to make money. You don't make money by cutting off your own nose to spite your face. SkyWest Inc will not do it either unless forced into a corner. ASA makes money even in this environment. The idea for it make even more and you never shrink your way to profits.

However, I hope for the best but prepare for the worst. I don't see what your ideas coming to fruition but you never know. Until then, you'll save yourself quite a bit of grief if you lose that mindset. It is nothing more than poison to those you deal with you on a day to day basis. A term that covers it is gravedigger. You can end right there with no way to climb out or worse, you push in someone else. Either way, nothing good comes from it.

IAD works good for flow of aircraft to from CAE/ATL. It would make sense. Inc's goal is be the best operator at the cheapest cost. ASA unit costs go down if we grow. It's a simple fact.

Trojan

 

[maxcackel]

Ok I know looking at my posts that it looks like I am very anti company and I was before Brad showed up. He has made a difference here and I want that to continue. But like you said Skywest is in the business of making money. I have only been freaked out by people thinking pbs should be given up so easally. I thought as big a card to be played would not be given up so fast. How about this for example. Why not continue with the stipulation that it goes into effect IF more flying is awarded to us. We get it ready to go, practice with the software, the company bids on flying with the cost savings in place, and if we get the award we flip the switch. I would miss the current systems soft pay but I would vote yes for guaranteed benifet. Everyone says we have to do this to be more competitive to get more flying so we can grow, so why not demand growth as a stipulation? My gripe is we give it up for small improvements that we could negotiate in the next contract anyway.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

I say let socrates1 speak his ignorant mind so that we know where he stands. So long as he is not using racist terms, he should have the freedom to speak his dumba$$ mind.

Along those lines I would like to say that white people suck! (TIC)

 

[CFI2766]

I say let socrates1 speak his ignorant mind so that we know where he stands. So long as he is not using racist terms, he should have the freedom to speak his dumba$$ mind.

Along those lines I would like to say that white people suck! (TIC)

+2, actually.

Let socrates1 have his say,

and,

he is a moron.


He's not yelling 'fire' in a theater, or a crowded RJ, is he? Also, for all the back and forth between General Lee, Tanker Clown, 737pylot, el al., that the exalted moderators allow and even encourage, it's pretty silly that this is what gets singled out as going over the line. What is it, you guys will go for pumping up your number of hits by the General's way, but not by someone expressing an admittedly ignorant opinion? Sheesh.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Then I suggest you worry about getting 60% of capt. pay for FOs and let ASA pilots worry about the PBS TA....In other words we don't really care what you think....Go lecture the Pinnacle pilots about their TA that undercuts all of us....

Says the scumbag POS that tried to abbrogate another pilot groups contract by suiing them!

 

[outtahere]

You're a blubbering idiot. I'm embarrassed you're on my seniority list. Don't go away mad, just go the F*%$ away please. Thank you.

Trojan

Truth is a pretty scary thing isn't it you fat tub-o-lard. Guess that's why they say ignorance is bliss! You must be the most blissfull person in the world!!!

 

[USCtrojan]

Truth is a pretty scary thing isn't it you fat tub-o-lard. Guess that's why they say ignorance is bliss! You must be the most blissfull person in the world!!!

fat tub-o-lard? LMAO! Grade school intellect....Don't forget to pop your zits before showing up to work, Chicken Little. Most blissful when it comes to you and your ridiculous ignorance. Look me up, idiot. I can't wait to meet you...

Trojan

 

[JoeMerchant]

Some of you guys are unbelieveable! Hey let's give it all away and hope Brad takes care of us! Tell ya what, what really makes us so expensive is all of you super senior guys that seem to want to sell out. So, if you really want to make ASA competitive, why don't all of yall quit, then we won't have to sell the farm. Oh, and by the way, I posted a thread on here last month telling all of you that Skywest would start flying 200's in atl, and we would shrink more. Funny how most of you shouted me down then, but now you all can finally see the forest for the trees. We will shrink further, and once we are small enough to manage, we will be "merged" with the Skywest pilots. It won't be fair and equitalble because Skywest wants the union gone. They will do everything possible to keep the Skywest pilots happy so when the union vote comes, their 3000 pilots will out vote our 1000. It's coming, like it or not. We will all be assimilated into the Morman culture. Atleast Joe can get another wife, because the first one.......Damn!

You are one bitter dude who really hates this place...Why don't YOU quit?

I find it funny that you blame PBS on the "senior crowd" who want to "sell you out"...I suspect that I am one of the few in the "senior crowd" who support PBS. Most of us the top will take a QOL hit with PBS...I only support it because I think it will help us grow, which helps the JUNIOR folks more than it does the SENIOR folks...For that, I am attacked by the very people that would benefit most by growth....

 

[USCtrojan]

You are one bitter dude who really hates this place...Why don't YOU quit?

I find it funny that you blame PBS on the "senior crowd" who want to "sell you out"...I suspect that I am one of the few in the "senior crowd" who support PBS. Most of us the top will take a QOL hit with PBS...I only support it because I think it will help us grow, which helps the JUNIOR folks more than it does the SENIOR folks...For that, I am attacked by the very people that would benefit most by growth....

Joe,

Goes to show you that you cannot fix stupid. No matter how hard you try!

Trojan