Go Jets

[ATTCS]

Frank was Right! I think that little phrase just about covers the BlowJet mess.

 

[TonyC]

Can't really blame him/her. Although there are some court cases that establish legal precedent saying that scab lists aren't leagally prosecutable as "libel", they were cases for lists of guys who crossed actual picket lines during an actual strike.

The door is very much open, however, for a libel suit against anyone publishing/distributing a "scab list" for pilots who are not engaged in flying struck work. I suspect the administrator isn't intrested in getting his hinney sued.

I understand the reasoning, and I don't object.

It's the rationale to ban G0JET as a "dirty word" that has me mystified.


(For the less observant in the bunch, I am only able to get that word to print because I substitute a ZERO for the letter "OH". If it is spelled correctly, it shows up on the board as **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**.)





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[Brett Hull]

Actually, it's both. If you start your career at BloJets, then you'll also have to end it there. You'll never be able to leave, at least not to a real career airline.

You know what? Everyone says that. They said it about Freedom and they have pilots who have moved on to Southwest, JetBlue, AirTran, etc; and they've said it about PFT'ers and they're everywhere. It's all talk and no action. There are no repercussions to going to GoJets except for maybe getting booted off a few jumpseats.

I hope you enjoy flying that RJ for peanuts until the day you turn 60

You guys have been flying RJ's for peanuts since the first one hit the line. THAT'S the problem.

que the first parrot squawking "Supply and Demand" in 3...2...1...

 

[propjob27]

You know what? Everyone says that. They said it about Freedom and they have pilots who have moved on to Southwest, JetBlue, AirTran, etc; and they've said it about PFT'ers and they're everywhere. It's all talk and no action. There are no repercussions to going to GoJets except for maybe getting booted off a few jumpseats.

This one of the few true statements I've heard about GoJets. I figure most guys who work there are going to live in ST Louis anyway, so the jumpseat threat isn't even a big one.

However, what should worry them (GoJets pilots) is the merger threat. If TSA is able to force Go-Jets pilots back into their senority list, like Mesa did with Freedom, then anyone who went to Go-Jets is going to have to quit very quickly and find a new job. And if that happens, say a year or so from now, who knows what the job climate will be like then.

I agree that there will be little or no people on the interview board and in HR departments at Southwest, JetBlue, AirTran, etc who know/care who Go-Jets is. They just see "PIC CRJ Time", and think "reginonal airline", just like SkyWest, ASA, Comair, etc. However, if you aren't able to get one of those jobs after Go-Jets, you definately might have trouble going to another commuter airline, because they WILL know who you are.

Just my 2 Cents.

 

[Frank Bama]

You guys have to stop being so narrow minded by thinking that this fight is just at the regional level. I commute on Southwest, and have had captains saying that they support the fight that we at Trans States have ahead of us. They said that there was no way that any GOJETS guy would ever jumpseat on their airplanes. Good luck to the backstabbers trying to ride on SWA...

 

[Remington]

Just for curiosity purposes, how would gojets be the end of someone's career? It's not sruck work. Do you really think SWA, AirTran, CAL, fractionals really care where you got your flight time???
Does it suck that this airline was started as an alter ego? yes.
Should some out-of-work low timer be 'scared' to take this job? no.
All the 'regional' airlines of today are flying work that the legacies used to fly. Should all regional jobs be avoided? Where do you draw the line?
It just seems that regionals fly the same flights as majors for cut-rate, cheap, near poverty rates, and now that the regionals are getting undercut everyone is pissed off. Why not just fly the plane you are in and STFU?
disclaimer - i am not at gojets or applying there.

 

[propjob27]

Remginton:

I'd say your post is just about dead on. The only people at the majors who will care one way or the other if you got your flight time at Go-Jets will be former Trans States guys who happen to work in the HR department and/or the interview/decision board. And I'd venture to guess there aren't too many of those.

These days everyone seems to "hate" each other to one degree or another:

• My friend at Mesaba hates Pinnacle, saying how lousy their training department is, how bad they sound on the radio, etc.
• My friend at Eagle hates Trans States, saying how they are taking American Eagles flying and he gives TSA pilots when they try to jump/non rev on Eagle.
• I flew for Skywest for four years, and Comair hated me and accused me of flying "struck" work, even though it wasn't. Not to mention the 70 seat for 50 seat pay lectures I got from other people.
• Then I flew for ATA, and I had several United employees accuse me of putting their airline out of business. And in the end, it is proabably us who will go out of business before everyone else.

Nearly everybody in this industry is pissed at someone else, and in the end it doesn't amount to jack shi t. We should all just be pissed at ourselves for not going to law school.

 

[millhouse21]

Not all. EO hired 1/12/04 STL/ATR is not on the new list but the others who were given a leave of absence are.

tj

Are you sure about EO? I looked and thought he was still there. I guess I'll have to look again...

 

[ATTCS]

This, I feel, is the real problem. If they are successful at getting BloJet operation with pay and benefits lower than the bottom side of whale shi t in the Mariannas Trench then it will snowball through the industry. Remember about 25 years ago when the legacy carriers started the B scale, etc? Then what would stop another carrier from doing the same as Trans States/BloJet to save bucks and get better contracts or lack thereof.

Another point to consider is management pitting one against the other. Ala Continental/Eastern in the 80's when Lorenzo was running it.

 

[Reebo]

Where do you draw the line?

Thats the million dollar question. For every Blow Jet operation that is created there are fewer mainline jobs available. With regionals now being replaced, alter- egoed, low balled, or however you want to phrase it, the downward spiral continues. Which really leaves ALL of us with a few choices.

1. Bend over and take it.

2. Quit and find another career.

3. Stand up and fight!


I choose # 3. This is more than just Trans States ALPA vs.Blow Jets, its about trying to maintain some standard that we can all live by. Only you can decide what youre willing to put up with.

 

[dispatchguy]

To answer the question about whether working for GJ would be the death-knell of your career -

Uncle Hulas had another second carrier once before - United Feeder Service (UFS), flying the BATP out of Chicago back in the late 90s and early 2000s. Pilots were teamsters represented then as well - see a pattern?

They were all accepted at other carriers when UFS closed its doors, UAL got some, I know a few that went to AWE, couple went to F9; none had the supposed "black mark" next to their name, nor treated like a bastard child.

 

[KingKong2]

However, what should worry them (GoJets pilots) is the merger threat. If TSA is able to force Go-Jets pilots back into their senority list, like Mesa did with Freedom, then anyone who went to Go-Jets is going to have to quit very quickly and find a new job. And if that happens, say a year or so from now, who knows what the job climate will be like then.

1st....Freedom was NON-UNION. No chance to fight a merger.

2nd Go-Jet is Union.... So, the following is more likely:

Just because you win a grievance does not mean they would get stapled. Freedom got stapled because they had no union. It is highly unlikely that an arbitrator would award any remedy in a case like this. The following would more likely play out:


Teamster represents Go-Jet, ALPA represents TSA. Best chance for those two lists to merge/staple whatever is if (best case) the following happens: A year from now ALPA wins their grievance (a Hail Mary based on the wording of the TSA scope). Then, the NMB would need to be petitioned to determine if it were a "single carrier." After long and drawn out litigation with the NMB, the NMB would have to agree they are a single carrier (about another 1 ½ years). Then, a representation vote occurs to see if ALPA or Teamsters is the representation body (6 months more). ALPA would likely win, simply more votes. Now, all 4 parties (ALPA, Teamsters, Go-Jet and TSA) need to sit down and negotiated the merger. Basically, these negations would be an up hill battle for ALPA. Management will not agree to retrain all the current Go-Jet pilots to be replaced by more retrained TSA pilots, so mgt will side with the Teamsters, on fences, and anti-flush, to keep costs low. So, after an aprox 3+ year battle, even if Teamsters agreed on the bottom of the TSA list (if TSA is ½ that lucky) the Go-Jet guys will keep their seats until they bid out by the management imposed fences.

 

[KingKong2]

You guys have to stop being so narrow minded by thinking that this fight is just at the regional level. I commute on Southwest, and have had captains saying that they support the fight that we at Trans States have ahead of us. They said that there was no way that any GOJETS guy would ever jumpseat on their airplanes. Good luck to the backstabbers trying to ride on SWA...

Frank Bama, I think you are a pathological liar. SWA pilots are happy guys and don't care about jack. Do not make crap up.

 

[Reebo]

Teamster represents Go-Jet, ALPA represents TSA. Best chance for those two lists to merge/staple whatever is if (best case) the following happens: A year from now ALPA wins their grievance (a Hail Mary based on the wording of the TSA scope). Then, the NMB would need to be petitioned to determine if it were a "single carrier." After long and drawn out litigation with the NMB, the NMB would have to agree they are a single carrier (about another 1 ½ years). Then, a representation vote occurs to see if ALPA or Teamsters is the representation body (6 months more). ALPA would likely win, simply more votes. Now, all 4 parties (ALPA, Teamsters, Go-Jet and TSA) need to sit down and negotiated the merger. Basically, these negations would be an up hill battle for ALPA. Management will not agree to retrain all the current Go-Jet pilots to be replaced by more retrained TSA pilots, so mgt will side with the Teamsters, on fences, and anti-flush, to keep costs low. So, after an aprox 3+ year battle, even if Teamsters agreed on the bottom of the TSA list (if TSA is ½ that lucky) the Go-Jet guys will keep their seats until they bid out by the management imposed fences.

Dan, nice try but your timeline is a little long. This will all occur within 1 year.
1st, Alpa will win the expedited grievance and Blow jet will be merged into TSA by Date of hire. It wont effect you and all the other turncoats that much, but all the off the street folks will be slotted in at their DOH. There will be junior folks holding captain slots, but as more aircraft come online, proper seniority will be used. Its a good thing you have your leave of absence so youll come back at your TSA hire date. All of you will be treated like the infamous aviators that you are. Management wont care at all because they will have their CRJ 700s up and flying making them money. All they want is a way to get the certificate up and running as quick and cheap as possible and you pukes allow this to happen. There will be no retraining, just training folks for the new aircraft as they come online.

 

[tjsatter]

Are you sure about EO? I looked and thought he was still there. I guess I'll have to look again...

Yeah, your right. I don't know what's going on with these lists. I know I tried to corrobarate a rumour about one certain Capt having gone over by crosschecking against bid lists and seeing his name not.

tj

 

[100LL... Again!]

PCL128's fire-and-brimstone preaching notwithstanding, I really think that g-jet pilots will have no prblem getting hired at a major if an when the majors hire again.

Who do you REALLY think the majors will take? A 5+ year prop FO from, say, Eagle, or a pilot with a 70-seat type rating and lots of jet PIC?

Come on, you just saw the biggest scab amnesty in the world at CAL. What make you think that anyone in HR at a major is going to give one little whit about g-jet on someone's resume?

I think the majors should reject anyone with GIA on the resume, but they will not care about that either.

 

[100LL... Again!]

1st....Freedom was NON-UNION. No chance to fight a merger.

2nd Go-Jet is Union.... So, the following is more likely:

Just because you win a grievance does not mean they would get stapled. Freedom got stapled because they had no union. It is highly unlikely that an arbitrator would award any remedy in a case like this. The following would more likely play out:


Teamster represents Go-Jet, ALPA represents TSA. Best chance for those two lists to merge/staple whatever is if (best case) the following happens: A year from now ALPA wins their grievance (a Hail Mary based on the wording of the TSA scope). Then, the NMB would need to be petitioned to determine if it were a "single carrier." After long and drawn out litigation with the NMB, the NMB would have to agree they are a single carrier (about another 1 ½ years). Then, a representation vote occurs to see if ALPA or Teamsters is the representation body (6 months more). ALPA would likely win, simply more votes. Now, all 4 parties (ALPA, Teamsters, Go-Jet and TSA) need to sit down and negotiated the merger. Basically, these negations would be an up hill battle for ALPA. Management will not agree to retrain all the current Go-Jet pilots to be replaced by more retrained TSA pilots, so mgt will side with the Teamsters, on fences, and anti-flush, to keep costs low. So, after an aprox 3+ year battle, even if Teamsters agreed on the bottom of the TSA list (if TSA is ½ that lucky) the Go-Jet guys will keep their seats until they bid out by the management imposed fences.

This is very well stated.

You think that TSA management dd not notice what happened with freedom?

I am quite certain they had their lawyers creaft the g-jet scenario very carefully.

 

[millhouse21]

The only problem with the above statement is that the lawyer in question is David Hayes. They're not as smart as you think.

Of course, I have to give them credit for bringing in Teamsters. Potentially brilliant ploy by MGMT if it works out by turning this into an ALPA vs Teamsters fight instead of an ALPA vs HK.

 

[redbook]

a few points...

teamsters are not even close to representing scumbags at the alter ego tsa carrier. The airline is not certified, thus the teamsters are not. All that particular move did was demonstrate to tsa pilots that management was more concerned with whipsawing than even establishing the alter ego. A couple management pilots getting together...what a joke...

as for the pilots at dirtbagjet, they have bigger concerns than just being denied jumpseats. Take at look at the last alpa magazine. They have made a decision that will effectively condemn them to being the migrant farm workers of the industry, jumping from scumbag outfit to scumbag outfit for low wages. The list is out there and will not be supressed.

 

[redbook]

for the idiot who said that southwest guys are "happy and don't care about jack"


that description fits you idiots who would fly any airplane for peanuts....don't drag the highest paid 737 pilots into your
sh$thole.