Get ASA/XJT Combined Seniority List

[Varmint]

The first post of this thread showed a seniority list based on Date of Hire. Can someone create a spreadsheet list that shows relative seniority scenarios. I would do it myself, but I don't know the relative seniority formulas that have been used historically. I think the MECs of both airlines should get off their asses and start sharing some possible integration lists based on a variety of scenarios, including DOH and common relative seniority formulas. After we see some potential outcomes, we can then decide if want to kill each other...

Heck, if they are gonna do that they might as well put out a DOH merged list and a relative seniority merged list and have the combined pilot group vote on which one we want. Either way it looks good to me. We don't need no stinkin arbitrator.

 

[outtahere]

Straight relative seniority costs me over a year of seniority, and 550 numbers over a DOH list. That is a windfall for XJT guys is it not?

 

[sunlitpath]

Straight relative seniority costs me over a year of seniority, and 550 numbers over a DOH list. That is a windfall for XJT guys is it not?

Yes, that is awful and completely unacceptable. I think I would lose a few hundred numbers also. DOH is fair and reasonable with some adjustments and protections added to it.

 

[IFLYASA]

I'm all about this option. With all of my police, CIA, FBI and recurrent ground self defense training I will surely be numero uno when the dust settles.

Not to mention the classic "drop and roll" in MOB! That maneuver alone will get you too the top!

 

[IFLYASA]

I don't understand the problem with relative seniority. I had a UAL jumpseater who asked if it was fair that a CAL 2005 hire should be senior to him, a 1996 hire, I said yes if that's what their relative seniority would be. You are x% on your premerger company list you should be at the same x% after the integration. That's how it should have been at USAir, that's how it should be at the new UAL, and I think that's how it should be at the new ASA ( with SKYW as well). With relative seniority no one benefits and no one is harmed, everyone is where they were before any integration. Let's face it, it's really only one aircraft type, it's not like the 700 and 900 pay much more than the 50 seaters.

If there is ever a significantly larger airplane on property the relative seniority will screw many pilots.. Why should someone hired 1-2 years after me get first dibs at a larger aircraft?

 

[IFLYASA]

Really? It is fair to be equal to that 1984 hire if you're relatively in the same place. How is that a windfall? What is that 1996 XJT pilot gaining? Both pilots are 1% before the merger and 1% after the merger, everything is the same. Nothing really changes as far as bidding anything.

Also, ASA isn't buying anything, it's Skywest, they are putting XJT with ASA, could have just as well put it with SKYW. And XJT is a larger company than ASA, so what? XJT is not in bankruptcy (yet) and XJT has contracts to continue flying for CAL and UAL for at least the next several years. There are benefits for both groups, aside from the ego part of seeing your seniority number next to someone hired years after you, what's the problem with relative seniority?

If you think an XJT pilot from 1996 is equal and fair to an ASA pilot from 1984, take off the foggles. That's 12 years difference. By this logic, the XJT pilot jumps ahead of someone hired 11 years prior at ASA. This is fair!!!?? WTF!

 

[buscap]

Gosh!!

This whole thing is just so darn classyy!!!

How about everybody just STFU about the seniority thing. We already know how everyone feels about it and it is directly related to how one comes out on the relative seniority formula or straight date of hire.

Why even bother expressing your opinions on what's "fair", when fair is the absolutely last thing on anyone's mind? Well, that is unless you define fair as "what's best for me."

I'm not criticising anyone who feels that way, I don't want to get screwed in this deal either, but I'm not gonna be ignorant enough to rant about what's fair, when my definition of fair involves me suddenly becoming the number one pilot in the three way combined system.

Whom exactly do I service to make that happen? Megan Fox, I hope!!! Please don't let it be Prater!! I thought Carrie Fisher choked him to death years ago!!!???

 

[sunlitpath]

Gosh!!

This whole thing is just so darn classyy!!!

How about everybody just STFU about the seniority thing. We already know how everyone feels about it and it is directly related to how one comes out on the relative seniority formula or straight date of hire.

Why even bother expressing your opinions on what's "fair", when fair is the absolutely last thing on anyone's mind? Well, that is unless you define fair as "what's best for me."

I'm not criticising anyone who feels that way, I don't want to get screwed in this deal either, but I'm not gonna be ignorant enough to rant about what's fair, when my definition of fair involves me suddenly becoming the number one pilot in the three way combined system.

Whom exactly do I service to make that happen? Megan Fox, I hope!!! Please don't let it be Prater!! I thought Carrie Fisher choked him to death years ago!!!???

Oh boy

 

[IFLYASA]

Gosh!!

This whole thing is just so darn classyy!!!

How about everybody just STFU about the seniority thing. We already know how everyone feels about it and it is directly related to how one comes out on the relative seniority formula or straight date of hire.

Why even bother expressing your opinions on what's "fair", when fair is the absolutely last thing on anyone's mind? Well, that is unless you define fair as "what's best for me."

I'm not criticising anyone who feels that way, I don't want to get screwed in this deal either, but I'm not gonna be ignorant enough to rant about what's fair, when my definition of fair involves me suddenly becoming the number one pilot in the three way combined system.

Whom exactly do I service to make that happen? Megan Fox, I hope!!! Please don't let it be Prater!! I thought Carrie Fisher choked him to death years ago!!!???

Then stop reading this thread. It's about combining the seniority..

 

[skootertrash]

If you think an XJT pilot from 1996 is equal and fair to an ASA pilot from 1984, take off the foggles. That's 12 years difference. By this logic, the XJT pilot jumps ahead of someone hired 11 years prior at ASA. This is fair!!!?? WTF!

So is it fair that the top 150 pilots who bypassed CAL to stay at XJT and be super senior go from the top 5% to the top 15%? How is that fair....if they were 5% before they should be 5% after. Your guys will still be their same % so whats the problem? Explaining "relative seniority" to you clowns is like trying to explain indicated airspeed to a private pilot groundschool.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Look kids!........Big Ben........Parliment..................

Big Ben...........Parliment..................

Big Ben.....

 

[Nevets]

Ok
For example, let's say these 300 pilots who were hired after me all decide to come to ATL and bid my airplane. Just go with this. Sure my relative seniority is the same, but I just got pushed back 300 numbers on my airplane to someone hired after me.

I know this is extreme but you should see my point.

This would only happen if there were 300 vacancies in ATL. No one will get bumped out of their seat, aircraft, or base. I'm sure of this because it will cost Inc a whole lot of retraining and moving costs.

Date of Hire with a no bump provision that protects seat and domicile is fair for all.

There will not be any bumping anyways.

I think the MECs of both airlines should get off their asses and start sharing some possible integration lists based on a variety of scenarios, including DOH and common relative seniority formulas. After we see some potential outcomes, we can then decide if want to kill each other...

Why? We don't get to vote on it anyway. In fact, the MEC doesn't even get to vote. Either the MCs agree or the arbitrator decides.

Straight relative seniority costs me over a year of seniority, and 550 numbers over a DOH list. That is a windfall for XJT guys is it not?

Seniority is your number on a list. When you combine more than one list, your seniority on the new list can only be measured to the new list in terms of what percent you are on the list. With relative seniority, you wouldn't lose any seniority. Therefore it is not a windfall. This is the whole point of relative seniority.

If there is ever a significantly larger airplane on property the relative seniority will screw many pilots.. Why should someone hired 1-2 years after me get first dibs at a larger aircraft?

Because your management is insisting on this merger to begin with. We are not asking for this! If your management didn't have such a hard on for us to begin with, you would be able to keep your bazillion large airplanes all to yourselves. As it is, our treasured incumbency your management is tripping themselves over to get is what is providing the opportunity for 90 large airplanes.

 

[the palm]

Not to mention the classic "drop and roll" in MOB! That maneuver alone will get you too the top!

That story is pure fiction. I don't know where you heard it, but it happened in LFT.....not MOB. You didn't even have the right state. And you wouldn't be laughing if there really had been an intruder. You would be on your knees thanking me for saving everyone's life and I would be on the front page of the USA Today....again.

 

[outtahere]

I was hired in '04, the same date an xjt guy was hired over there. We have the exact same seniority number at our respective airline. If we merge doh, guess what, we are right beside each other!!!! That's where we should be!!! He shouldn't be 500 numbers ahead of me, we were hired on the same freakin day!!!! You're out of your freakin mind if you think that's fair!! Take your relative senority and shove it. Sorry if you don't like it, noone over here cares.

 

[Nevets]

I was hired in '04, the same date an xjt guy was hired over there. We have the exact same seniority number at our respective airline. If we merge doh, guess what, we are right beside each other!!!! That's where we should be!!! He shouldn't be 500 numbers ahead of me, we were hired on the same freakin day!!!! You're out of your freakin mind if you think that's fair!! Take your relative senority and shove it. Sorry if you don't like it, noone over here cares.

And no one over here asked your airline to buy us.