Get ASA/XJT Combined Seniority List

[Nevets]

I don't work for ASA or SkyWest, so as I said before, I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm just trying to offer you some insight into how SkyWest does business. Because the road you are campaigning for your pilot group to take is a dead end. Piss Jerry off, and you will see what you get. Work with him, and your company will prosper more than you could imagine. ASA was a piece of garbage until SW bought them. Now look, they're actually a respectable airline, and still have one of the best contracts in the regionals.

You need more leaders like cybourg and less than Nevets if you are going to survive in the SkyWest family. Cool heads will prevail. I'm just saying.

It has become very apparent to me in the last two years on exactly how Skywest does business. I'm not trying to lead anybody. Just stating my opinion that I would prefer that JA simply abide by our contract. If he wants his employees to play nice, great. We got along with our management pretty good. But unfortunately he has taken us on a road that is not pleasant for any of us. We did not come from a garbage airline where we were not treated fairly. We come from a respectable airline and have one of the best contracts in the regionals. It doesn't hurt us at all to try to enforce the clear intent of the contract. If that becomes a dead end as you say, so be it. We will deal with it in contract negotiations. There is no reason why we shouldn't expect and insist to be treated fairly because there is nothing to lose, especially if you are of the mentality that this is a done deal regardless of what the pilots do. We can be professional about it and smile back while trying to unscrew the screwing we are taking.

 

[Baronman]

I don't work for ASA or SkyWest, so as I said before, I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm just trying to offer you some insight into how SkyWest does business. Because the road you are campaigning for your pilot group to take is a dead end. Piss Jerry off, and you will see what you get. Work with him, and your company will prosper more than you could imagine. ASA was a piece of garbage until SW bought them. Now look, they're actually a respectable airline, and still have one of the best contracts in the regionals.

You need more leaders like cybourg and less than Nevets if you are going to survive in the SkyWest family. Cool heads will prevail. I'm just saying.

Work with Jerry and my company will prosper more than I can imagine? I HIGHLY doubt that.

So what you're saying is that us pilots (XJT) should overlook that section of our contract to appease Jerry? Ok fine. Will you promise me that no whipsaw will occur?

Let me ask you a question. Why doesn't Jerry want to integrate all three airlines? Simple question.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Obortion just endorsed a mosque at ground zero and here we are squabbling over a few senority numbers.

 

[sunlitpath]

Skywest did not walk away from the first deal. They were fully prepared to execute the transaction. Expressjet rejected the offer because they felt the price was too low. http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp%3Fchannel%3Dcomm%26id%3Dnews/exp04258.xml

 

[CiFIknow]

I think the best long-term best situation for all pilots at XJT/ASA/SKW is to have one list. In the short-term I am sure we all are wanting things to stay "status quo" as far as what A/C we are flying and we want to stay in our present bases, albeit I'm sure there are some on the XJT side who would love to be based in an ASA or SKW domicile and vice versa. We can figure out how to mitigate unwanted displacements in negotiations of the SLI. I do, however, get a chuckle about the many, many references to "Don't piss Jerry off", or "work with Jerry and he will work with you". At XJT we had a good relationship with our past management and we worked well together to try to solve our mutual problems. Just because we are unionized does not automatically make it an adversarial process. Our present CEO has taken a more adversarial approach and we are seeing what comes from that in our many grievances we have filed recently.

For one, I don't believe SKW Inc. will walk from this deal over this issue. With the acquisition of XJT they will be guaranteed to be the single largest regional carrier for the new United for the next 10 years. All for the small price tag of $163 million. A BARGAIN!! Sure, Jerry the anointed genius could walk away and hope for us to go under and pick up the pieces later. But I doubt he would be willing to gamble on that.

I know we all have our personal reasons that want to preserve what we have today for the short-term. However, I think a single list would promote more stability and better prospects for the future for the pilots at all three carriers than just an XJT/ASA merger.

 

[Nevets]

Skywest did not walk away from the first deal. They were fully prepared to execute the transaction. Expressjet rejected the offer because they felt the price was too low. http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=comm&id=news/exp04258.xml

That is false. The XJT BOD did reject the first offer. They negotiated a new price but but SKW put contingencies that required them to negotiate with the XJT MEC. Technically SKW did walk away because the XJT MEC would not throw out their scope and holding letter.

 

[outtahere]

Oh, you are soooo important!!! This whole time I just thought you were an airline pilot, I didn't realize you were "SUPER DORK"!!! My bad.

 

[007]

I can't believe you guys, overlooking some important issues here:
Which group wears more cowboy boots in the cockpit?

Clearly XJT, I mean we have all those Texans......that's gotta give us the edge.

 

[Baronman]

Clearly XJT, I mean we have all those Texans......that's gotta give us the edge.

It's true...we have many boot wearing, sunglasses hanging off the epaulets rocking pilots.

 

[unclemike]

Most importantly, I think it's important that this discussion not get personal. We will soon be part of a new, well-run company that is the largest in the regional industry, serving the two largest majors in the world. We have two great pilot groups that will really move the combined company forward.

I am an ASA pilot, and I'm thinking about what's fair first, and then how things will impact me. But no matter what happens with this pilot integration, I welcome XJet guys and no hard feelings.

That being said, I think the concept of relative seniority is fundamentally flawed. To think that if ASA merged with, say Compass, and a 4 yr Compass captain would be senior to a 28-yr ASA captain would be ludicrous. In order for a model to be valid it needs to work for any scenario, and it clearly does not in this case.

I've been furloughed by two regional carriers, and finally found a good one (ASA) on my third. I've learned the hard way that DOH is what matters. And it still matters now. Relative seniority would be giving dozens of guys junior to me months or years of seniority. This isn't Christmas.

For the Relative seniority guys that can't understand why some ASA guys (and some XJet guys) don't get your argument, my own case is a great example. I can't relocate from ATL for personal reasons. With "relative seniority," I would now have about one hundred new junior guys that could bid my domicile in front of me that I didn't have before this merger. Is that fair? I know I choose to stay in ATL, but with my DOH, that is my right. I know some ATL ASA guys above me might chose EWR or IAH and that it might be a "wash." But the "odds" and what "might be" shouldn't be part of this equation. My DOH should rule. As should everyone's.

I'm not trying to gain anything. But with my unwillingness to relocate, I'd stand to lose, maybe painfully, with relative seniority. I'd be open to some sort of DOH with strict fences for a while so that no XJet person loses anything. Someone even mentioned going to relative seniority for a while, and then snapping back to DOH after a number of years. That could be workable too. I really don't want anyone to lose in this.

The bottom line is, that no matter how contentious this argement may get, we should'nt let the rhetoric or the decision get in the way of a harmonious integration. Two sides trying to protect themselves is no cause for any personal attacks.

 

[777forever]

Work with Jerry and my company will prosper more than I can imagine? I HIGHLY doubt that.

So what you're saying is that us pilots (XJT) should overlook that section of our contract to appease Jerry? Ok fine. Will you promise me that no whipsaw will occur?

Let me ask you a question. Why doesn't Jerry want to integrate all three airlines? Simple question.

Labor strife. SKW has a 2000+ pilot group that wants nothing to do with a union. Let's be frank. XJET is on a path to bankruptcy. This deal will give XJT pilots long term career stability. JA and BH have stated that they will provide protections against whipsaw. If XJET pilots do not cooperate Inc will drop the transaction and wait for XJET to go bankrupt. It is in XJT's best interest to drop the scope clause.

 

[PapaSiera]

Labor strife. SKW has a 2000+ pilot group that wants nothing to do with a union. Let's be frank. XJET is on a path to bankruptcy. This deal will give XJT pilots long term career stability. JA and BH have stated that they will provide protections against whipsaw. If XJET pilots do not cooperate Inc will drop the transaction and wait for XJET to go bankrupt. It is in XJT's best interest to drop the scope clause.

So JA and SKW are doing us a favor then? Wow, they are sooo nice!

Ya, right......They want XJT now. If they thought we were going to go bankrupt then they would wait and buy us for a fraction of the price...Try again 777.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Let's just please let the Expressjet guys decide what is best for them.

 

[Tarzan]

For one, I don't believe SKW Inc. will walk from this deal over this issue. With the acquisition of XJT they will be guaranteed to be the single largest regional carrier for the new United for the next 10 years. All for the small price tag of $163 million. A BARGAIN!! Sure, Jerry the anointed genius could walk away and hope for us to go under and pick up the pieces later. But I doubt he would be willing to gamble on that.

I know we all have our personal reasons that want to preserve what we have today for the short-term. However, I think a single list would promote more stability and better prospects for the future for the pilots at all three carriers than just an XJT/ASA merger.

Jerry has already made the point that they will walk away if XJT decides to fight on this issue. I've read the letter a couple of times and I don't believe you guys have anything there. The intent of that letter was to make XJT Holdings execute a merger. A couple of extra words would have changed everything but I don't see where you have anything that stand up in an arbitration.

That being said, if Jerry says something, it will happen. This group isn't your ordinary airline management. They don't make idle statements such as this. They will walk away and look elsewhere. You can doubt and speculate all you want and it will change how these operate. We can work together and get some kick a$$ scope out this thing or we remain on our own paths and what happen, happens.

Personally, I'd rather see you guys with us. I feel we have an opportunity here that will keep our jobs safe for the next decade.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Jerry has already made the point that they will walk away if XJT decides to fight on this issue. I've read the letter a couple of times and I don't believe you guys have anything there. The intent of that letter was to make XJT Holdings execute a merger. A couple of extra words would have changed everything but I don't see where you have anything that stand up in an arbitration.

That being said, if Jerry says something, it will happen. This group isn't your ordinary airline management. They don't make idle statements such as this. They will walk away and look elsewhere. You can doubt and speculate all you want and it will change how these operate. We can work together and get some kick a$$ scope out this thing or we remain on our own paths and what happen, happens.

Personally, I'd rather see you guys with us. I feel we have an opportunity here that will keep our jobs safe for the next decade.

Well said.

 

[777forever]

So JA and SKW are doing us a favor then? Wow, they are sooo nice!

Ya, right......They want XJT now. If they thought we were going to go bankrupt then they would wait and buy us for a fraction of the price...Try again 777.

Profitability now is better than profitability 2 yrs down the road.5 years from now XJT will not be around. By accepting SKW proposal XJT pilots will ensure that at least the pilots will still be around.

Let's take all this energy and apply it towards an industry leading contract with industry leading scope protection against whipsaw. ASA pilots want to join XJT and work together with you. We don't want to end up destroying you and seeing a 2000+ pilot group all lose their jobs. ASA MEC has agreed to the merger. It's all up to XJT now. Our hand is out. Take it or leave it.

 

[79%N1]

I think ultimately it is a favor, of sorts, to XJT. The writing is on the wall regarding profitabilty and future contracts, etc. They already have lost a/c, closed out the branded, etc. This is an opportunity to join with a profitable, well-run company with good leadership, tight long-term contracts, etc. XJT can hold their breath, stomp their feet and throw a tantrum on the floor over binding Skywest to merge all 3, or focus on joining a healthy company and jointly obtain a great contract with tight scope against the Skywest group preventing the whip-saw! I know I would rather join up and move forward than await my fate in the short term, one which most certainly won't as bright as it will if they join up with ASA and move forward.

 

[PapaSiera]

I think ultimately it is a favor, of sorts, to XJT. The writing is on the wall regarding profitabilty and future contracts, etc. They already have lost a/c, closed out the branded, etc. This is an opportunity to join with a profitable, well-run company with good leadership, tight long-term contracts, etc. XJT can hold their breath, stomp their feet and throw a tantrum on the floor over binding Skywest to merge all 3, or focus on joining a healthy company and jointly obtain a great contract with tight scope against the Skywest group preventing the whip-saw! I know I would rather join up and move forward than await my fate in the short term, one which most certainly won't as bright as it will if they join up with ASA and move forward.

JA is a business man. He isn't offering this to XJT pilots out of the goodness of his heart because he doesn't want to see us hurt. He wants to make money plain and simple.

You say "gain tight scope"! Guess what? We already have tight scope! Now you are asking us to give it up for less scope. That is a concession. You also say that we will negotiate an industry leading contract. XJT pilots already have an industry leading contract. If anything it looks like we will be giving concessions in this deal.
- PBS
- Scheduling/ trip tade/ line improvement
- Sick Leave
- Retirement
- Pass travel

I'm not saying that this deal isn't going to happen, but there will be a lot of pi**ed off XJT pilots flying around if we lose the current QOL that we enjoy. What makes it worse is ASA pilots seem to want to work against us and side with JA. Thats what really makes me mad. You guys are so eager to give up concessions.

 

[buscap]

I'm not saying that this deal isn't going to happen, but there will be a lot of pi**ed off XJT pilots flying around if we lose the current QOL that we enjoy. What makes it worse is ASA pilots seem to want to work against us and side with JA. Thats what really makes me mad. You guys are so eager to give up concessions.

Pound it buddy.

You fought for what you have and we fought for what we have. Somewhere out there is someone with certain things in their contracts which are better than yours. But don't get me wrong, it was nice, using your contract as a crowbar in our last negotiations. ( :beer: you can still pound it for your "eager" comment)

As far as taking concessions, get out of that glass house. And trust me, we have a really long list of crap which needs to be jacked up in our next contract, which may or may not turn out to be some sort of merger agreement.

I can't think of anything we can do to help your effort to fight this or negotiate it. If we merge, fine, then we talk about merging. If not, so be it and I say, good job on that holding letter language.

If we publish a letter supporting your position and maybe walk a picket line that will have a really great impact on Jerry!!! :erm: He is so intimidated by these things!!!

But until you've walked in our shoes, you really can't say we are eager for concessions. If your beef is mostly with the PBS, maybe some of the pro PBS crowd have laid it on a little thick on this board, but some of these folks really do like the system, feel it is a better way to bid and don't see it as a concession.

I voted for the PBS just because it does look better than line bidding. I saw some gains and losses and came up with a few more gains. It's that simple and the jury won't know if it's any better or worse for about a year, when my stupid azzz has finally figured it out.

 

[damnflyboy]

What makes it worse is ASA pilots seem to want to work against us and side with JA. Thats what really makes me mad. You guys are so eager to give up concessions.

This is not what i've noticed in the cockpit. Most of our pilot group consider you our new partner in this little adventure. JA treats us like an adopted child who he keeps in the tool-shed. He keeps us fed with a roof over our head...but we don't feel the love like his SkyWest pilots. We've seen his attitude---Case and point: We had 2 waves of furloughs. SkyWest? Zero. Why? Because his children are too good for that kind of treatment. We're adopted...the both of us.

Welcome to the tool-shed. We have dirty magazines.

 

[Tarzan]

This is not what i've noticed in the cockpit. Most of our pilot group consider you our new partner in this little adventure. JA treats us like an adopted child who he keeps in the tool-shed. He keeps us fed with a roof over our head...but we don't feel the love like his SkyWest pilots. We've seen his attitude---Case and point: We had 2 waves of furloughs. SkyWest? Zero. Why? Because his children are too good for that kind of treatment. We're adopted...the both of us.

Welcome to the tool-shed. We have dirty magazines.

We may be stuck in the tool shed but hell there is some nice sh*t out here. Plus the AC works well and the bed ain't too bad to sleep in. Nice about the tool shed is we have dirty magazines first off all. Next, we can build some cool stuff. Can we make stuff better? Hell yes! That is one of the reasons I am hopeful this XJT deal goes through. We inherit some leverage to get some good stuff. But still overall, I'll take where we are now versus a being in a Comair position.

 

[777forever]

JA is a business man. He isn't offering this to XJT pilots out of the goodness of his heart because he doesn't want to see us hurt. He wants to make money plain and simple.

You say "gain tight scope"! Guess what? We already have tight scope! Now you are asking us to give it up for less scope. That is a concession. You also say that we will negotiate an industry leading contract. XJT pilots already have an industry leading contract. If anything it looks like we will be giving concessions in this deal.
- PBS
- Scheduling/ trip tade/ line improvement
- Sick Leave
- Retirement
- Pass travel

I'm not saying that this deal isn't going to happen, but there will be a lot of pi**ed off XJT pilots flying around if we lose the current QOL that we enjoy. What makes it worse is ASA pilots seem to want to work against us and side with JA. Thats what really makes me mad. You guys are so eager to give up concessions.

ALPA has down a case study on regional contracts. Air Wisconsin has the industry leading contract, followed by ASA, then XJT. Sorry bro, our contract overall is better than yours. Especially after you guys just took concessions.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

ALPA has down a case study on regional contracts. Air Wisconsin has the industry leading contract, followed by ASA, then XJT. Sorry bro, our contract overall is better than yours. Especially after you guys just took concessions.

What's the link to the case study, or where is it on the ALPA website? I'd like the chance to read it.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

It doesn't really matter. It will be fun to watch from the sidelines. You can't expect the purchasing company's pilots to get all bent out of shape over something we didn't sign or initiate. They might be ALPO brothers and all but it's just not in us, I'm afraid. It wouldn't be smart either and will be best left up to the XJT guys to tackle. I say good luck.

 

[buscap]

ALPA has down a case study on regional contracts. Air Wisconsin has the industry leading contract, followed by ASA, then XJT. Sorry bro, our contract overall is better than yours. Especially after you guys just took concessions.

Could you please change your avatar?

I have to read your post seven times before I know what the first two words are.

That thing's a freakin train wreck. I don't want to look!! I just can't stop.

Don't make me block you!!
:angryfire

 

[COOPERVANE]

Could you please change your avatar?

I have to read your post seven times before I know what the first two words are.

That thing's a freakin train wreck. I don't want to look!! I just can't stop.

Don't make me block you!!
:angryfire

I agree. That is not attractive to me in ANY way. Just not into all the trunk junk. Now...Jessica Simpson in Daisy Dukes....

 

[777forever]

What's the link to the case study, or where is it on the ALPA website? I'd like the chance to read it.

There is no link. The report is only available thru ALPA. I was told the results by an ALPA union leader

 

[777forever]

I agree. That is not attractive to me in ANY way. Just not into all the trunk junk. Now...Jessica Simpson in Daisy Dukes....

Jessica Simpson has no butt! But I know are opinions are ones that have a "cultural" difference.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

There is no link. The report is only available thru ALPA. I was told the results by an ALPA union leader

So then you have no facts to corroborate your claims?

hmm................

 

[777forever]

So then you have no facts to corroborate your claims?

hmm................

Call...an....ALPA...rep...for...more...info

It was an Air Tran ALPA rep that told me the stats so he'd have no reason to lie